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FFG_Sam Stewart

Announcing The Frozen Reaches, the first installment of the Warpstorm adventure trilogy!

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Orcs! When I saw that there were plenty of Orcs in the sector I knew that sooner or later the Orcs would start rampaging again. An adventure based on these Orcs in the Koronos Expanse sounds completely on the mark for me. It was that or mysterious Aliens doing their thing, but as I am sure that we will learn more about our mysterious aliens at a later stage, I can safely say that I am sure that I will enjoy this adventure.

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Adam France said:

 I hate Orks, so this one won't be for me. Shame. I guess the planet might be useable.

I don't understand. This sounds as if the adventure would be perfect for you.gran_risa.gif

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Mjoellnir said:

Adam France said:

 

 I hate Orks, so this one won't be for me. Shame. I guess the planet might be useable.

 

 

I don't understand. This sounds as if the adventure would be perfect for you.gran_risa.gif

Heh. Nope I hate them conceptually, rather than emotionally.gui%C3%B1o.gif

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Adam France said:

Heh. Nope I hate them conceptually, rather than emotionally.gui%C3%B1o.gif

The concept, or the execution? Orks work quite well if you play down the soccer rioter aspect and focus more on the engineered weapons of fungoid destruction.

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Errant said:

Adam France said:

Heh. Nope I hate them conceptually, rather than emotionally.gui%C3%B1o.gif

 

The concept, or the execution? Orks work quite well if you play down the soccer rioter aspect and focus more on the engineered weapons of fungoid destruction.

The football thug aspect is what Orks are. The fact they're fungoid lifeforms doesn't really mean much. I even hate the way they look. IMO they just don't fit 40K as it now is. Back in the early days things were more 'wfrp in space', more freewheeling, less coherent, less serious (controversial that I know). They arguably fitted fine back then, nowadays they're like a poo on a pool table.

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Adam France said:

Errant said:

 

Adam France said:

Heh. Nope I hate them conceptually, rather than emotionally.gui%C3%B1o.gif

 

The concept, or the execution? Orks work quite well if you play down the soccer rioter aspect and focus more on the engineered weapons of fungoid destruction.

 

 

The football thug aspect is what Orks are. The fact they're fungoid lifeforms doesn't really mean much. I even hate the way they look. IMO they just don't fit 40K as it now is. Back in the early days things were more 'wfrp in space', more freewheeling, less coherent, less serious (controversial that I know). They arguably fitted fine back then, nowadays they're like a poo on a pool table.

I think they fit fine and are more "40K" fitting, IMHO, then Space Marines or Necrons or Tau.

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IMHO, Orks fit perfectly fine in 40k. A few things you need to remember though.

When encountering them, don’t have them talking in broken English in a cockney accent. The PCs should see what are essentially gigantic green gorillas wielding knifes and chainswords the size of a grown man and firing guns with bullets more fitting a bolter or autocannon, screaming at the top of their lungs. With their resilience, PCs firing lasguns and other small arms at them should do next to no damage. They’re actually pretty scary when done right.

In my old campaign, one of the PCs first encounters was against orks… not a small group but a pretty decent sized horde. They had brought a large contingent of troops along with their ship, saw the orks coming and basically thought “Ok, here comes the comic relief”. They took up firing positions, didn’t seem too concerned, and started blasting away with lasguns, and the occasional heavy weapon (heavy bolters). The bolters did wonders, but there weren’t enough of them. Plus, as a bastard, I added a shokk attack gun into the mix. The PCs had to take fear tests when about a dozen of there troops suddenly were swarmed/fused with hundreds of insane snotlings and torn apart. They had to retreat and quickly learned why the orks are the major threat that they are in the galaxy.

In short, if you play the orks like brainless comic relief that talk like soccer hooligans, you’re going to get comic relief and little true threat. If you play them as the savage, barbaric, low-cunning brutes that they are, you’ll get a LOT more mileage out of them.

 

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I'm afraid for a lot of people it isn't really a matter of "fitting in". For lots of people the Orks are the heart and soul of the game, a core part of what makes 40k what it is, rediculous humor and all. :) I would worry that if they were taken out the game would get...bland. Over the top violent humor is as intrinsic to 40k as the grim darkness of the future. Take that out and you are left with a fairly generic universe.

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I can't talk for any one other than myself and my own opinions. I don't like Orks, I don't include them in my games. 

One thing on a broader level I would point out is the increasing rarity of their appearances in the novels. Yes, they do still appear now and again, but they no longer seem central to the setting, even if you do like them. That doesn't surprise me, they are just not thematically compatible with the more coherent and serious modern take on the setting. It's hard to have serious interaction with 'da boyz' in the picture. 

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While the standard 40K Ork can be a combination of crazy fun and lethal dismemberment (and both at the same time) I am thinking of giving them a "re-imagining" using the Saruman's Uruk-Hai from the LOTR films as a model. Really scary creatures, utterly vicious in battle and tough to kill. Now give them guns as well....demonio.gif

DW

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Adam France said:

I can't talk for any one other than myself and my own opinions. I don't like Orks, I don't include them in my games. 

One thing on a broader level I would point out is the increasing rarity of their appearances in the novels. Yes, they do still appear now and again, but they no longer seem central to the setting, even if you do like them. That doesn't surprise me, they are just not thematically compatible with the more coherent and serious modern take on the setting. It's hard to have serious interaction with 'da boyz' in the picture. 

Adam France said:

I can't talk for any one other than myself and my own opinions. I don't like Orks, I don't include them in my games. 

One thing on a broader level I would point out is the increasing rarity of their appearances in the novels. Yes, they do still appear now and again, but they no longer seem central to the setting, even if you do like them. That doesn't surprise me, they are just not thematically compatible with the more coherent and serious modern take on the setting. It's hard to have serious interaction with 'da boyz' in the picture. 

They seem to be in Redemption Corps, Fear the Xeno, Hellsreach, Rynn's World all from 2010, then in the recent years we had Gunheads, Assault on Black Reach (Novel), a Ciaphas Cain Novel, a comic book series from Boom! Studios, and of course the boxed set of 40K TT that featured orks. And the appear in Dark Heresy and Rogue Trader with stats and big references to them in Death Watch, they are not being phased out by any sense. In fact, they seem quite popular.

But of course, the two other big sellers are tyranids and chaos. Since it seems all Dan Abnett writes about is Chaos and he writes about 50 books and hours, it would seem that orks get less and less light. But it really isnt true.

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Peacekeeper_b said:

 

Adam France said:

 

I can't talk for any one other than myself and my own opinions. I don't like Orks, I don't include them in my games. 

One thing on a broader level I would point out is the increasing rarity of their appearances in the novels. Yes, they do still appear now and again, but they no longer seem central to the setting, even if you do like them. That doesn't surprise me, they are just not thematically compatible with the more coherent and serious modern take on the setting. It's hard to have serious interaction with 'da boyz' in the picture. 

 

 

Adam France said:

 

I can't talk for any one other than myself and my own opinions. I don't like Orks, I don't include them in my games. 

One thing on a broader level I would point out is the increasing rarity of their appearances in the novels. Yes, they do still appear now and again, but they no longer seem central to the setting, even if you do like them. That doesn't surprise me, they are just not thematically compatible with the more coherent and serious modern take on the setting. It's hard to have serious interaction with 'da boyz' in the picture. 

 

 

They seem to be in Redemption Corps, Fear the Xeno, Hellsreach, Rynn's World all from 2010, then in the recent years we had Gunheads, Assault on Black Reach (Novel), a Ciaphas Cain Novel, a comic book series from Boom! Studios, and of course the boxed set of 40K TT that featured orks. And the appear in Dark Heresy and Rogue Trader with stats and big references to them in Death Watch, they are not being phased out by any sense. In fact, they seem quite popular.

But of course, the two other big sellers are tyranids and chaos. Since it seems all Dan Abnett writes about is Chaos and he writes about 50 books and hours, it would seem that orks get less and less light. But it really isnt true.

 

 

(One short story in Fear the Alien.) Taken as a whole the novels you list constitute a very small percentage of 40K novels. Yes they feature in the TT game more, but I wasn't talking about that - the TT game always will be broader and less concerned with the feel of the setting.

Abnett has driven the new direction of 40K, whether you like or dislike that fact, it does remain a fact. Interestingly he did include Orks in Brothers of the Snake - one of his few truly terrible books imo. But as a whole he writes about enemies that are interesting, scary, emotionally involving, and ... believable (check out Blood Pact for example). Orks fall very short against such work imo. They also feel very childish in tone.

As to them making the setting, that's not true in my experience. They don't exist in my version of 40K and the setting still feels pretty 40k to me. They're the xeno squats - and squats were rightly excised from existence when they'd outlived their desirability without causing a ripple. Orks are very easy to remove in the same way. 

 

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crisaron said:

If I remember correctly the second most popular army (the 1st being marines) is Orks fantasy and 40k together.

An awful lot of 8 to 12 year olds play the tt game. The ones that stick with the game will grow out of their Ork faze, moving on to Space Wolves, then another army.gui%C3%B1o.gif

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Adam France said:

As to them making the setting, that's not true in my experience. They don't exist in my version of 40K and the setting still feels pretty 40k to me. They're the xeno squats - and squats were rightly excised from existence when they'd outlived their desirability without causing a ripple. Orks are very easy to remove in the same way.

Well, you're welcome to your opinion, but they're a part of the setting, and they're not going away any time soon.

Personally, I view the Orks as integral to the setting; from an out-of-character experience, their presence provides an outlet for levity that would otherwise be lacking in an oppressive setting. Acknowledging that the humour really shouldn't be apparent from the perspective of characters (an Ork isn't funny when it's trying to rip your arms off), the Orks also fill a role otherwise lacking in the list of threats to the Imperium: they're an intelligent horde of monsters, with technology and a defined culture and the ability to think for themselves. Only depictions of the forces of Chaos come close to this, and even then, Chaos often ends up being the "enemy with your face", and thus being presented as a twisted version of mankind rather than just rampaging baby-eating monsters.

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N0-1_H3r3 said:

 

Adam France said:

As to them making the setting, that's not true in my experience. They don't exist in my version of 40K and the setting still feels pretty 40k to me. They're the xeno squats - and squats were rightly excised from existence when they'd outlived their desirability without causing a ripple. Orks are very easy to remove in the same way.

 

Well, you're welcome to your opinion, but they're a part of the setting, and they're not going away any time soon.

Personally, I view the Orks as integral to the setting; from an out-of-character experience, their presence provides an outlet for levity that would otherwise be lacking in an oppressive setting. Acknowledging that the humour really shouldn't be apparent from the perspective of characters (an Ork isn't funny when it's trying to rip your arms off), the Orks also fill a role otherwise lacking in the list of threats to the Imperium: they're an intelligent horde of monsters, with technology and a defined culture and the ability to think for themselves. Only depictions of the forces of Chaos come close to this, and even then, Chaos often ends up being the "enemy with your face", and thus being presented as a twisted version of mankind rather than just rampaging baby-eating monsters.

 

 

In the same way I didn't laugh at JarJar Binks stepping in Bantha poodoo, I don't find the equally crude 'humour' of the Orks funny. Humour is better handled more subtly in a dark setting imo. 

It's easy to come up with new, more thematically appropriate seeming, aliens to replace the cartoonish 'Ork boyz'. 

Yes, they are unlikely to be officially dropped, mores the pity, as the TT sales are the deciding factor in such things rather than what works best in fluff. My version of the game setting is what I care about. I am glad so few novels feature them though.

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In the same way I didn't laugh at JarJar Binks stepping in Bantha poodoo, I don't find the equally crude and basic 'humour' of the Orks in the least funny. Humour is better handled more subtly in a dark setting imo. 

It's easy to come up with new, more thematically appropriate seeming, aliens to replace the cartoonish 'Ork boyz'. 

Yes, they are unlikely to be officially dropped, mores the pity, as the TT sales are the deciding factor in such things rather than what works best in fluff. My version of the game setting is what I care about. I am glad so few novels feature them though..

(EDIT - BLOODY forum software is rubbish!)

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Deadline247 said:

****...somebody has a HUGE stick up their ass over orks.

Not at all, I just don't think they fit any more so I don't use them. It's hardly a major problem to me to have removed them. The setting rubs along nicely and smoothly without them. happy.gif

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Adam France said:

Deadline247 said:

 

****...somebody has a HUGE stick up their ass over orks.

 

 

Not at all, I just don't think they fit any more so I don't use them. It's hardly a major problem to me to have removed them. The setting rubs along nicely and smoothly without them. happy.gif

And without space marines as well.

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Peacekeeper_b said:

Adam France said:

 

Deadline247 said:

 

****...somebody has a HUGE stick up their ass over orks.

 

 

Not at all, I just don't think they fit any more so I don't use them. It's hardly a major problem to me to have removed them. The setting rubs along nicely and smoothly without them. happy.gif

 

 

And without space marines as well.

Nope, I like and include space marines (as I do almost every other thing in the setting). I guess if you didn't you could remove them, but it'd be pretty tricky to keep the Imperium feeling the same as with them - the concept of primarchs, astartes, and the Horus Heresy underpins the whole Imperium after all. 

Also more importantly fractured Chapters of gengineered super soldiers is essentially a cool and well realised concept, unlike ...

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Adam France said:

Also more importantly fractured Chapters of gengineered super soldiers is essentially a cool and well realised concept, unlike ...

A savage species of war-addicted monsters, the brutal descendants of an ancient species of genetically-engineered slave warriors created to fight in an ancient war between god-like beings and their innumerable legions of warrior-species?

You see a race of hooligans, I see Mankind's primary competitor for the title of "most numerous and widespread sapient species".

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