Others Have Told Me This is a Bad Idea

[Kerikath 0]

Meph said:

Have the characters slowly find out details that makes them thínk that they're descendants/incarnations of the primarch but instead of it being pure and divine as they think, let it be the machinations of chaos. It seems like a perfect thing that Tzcheench would want to pull off. Gradual mutations, visions of perfection, eveolving into the pinnacle of humanity, only to have it turn sour and have the characters trying to claw back their way to humanity or making the hard choice of heroic sacrifice. It would make an amazing apotheosis to a long campaign... Be tempted by chaos and the promise of daemon-princehood or defy the ruinous power at great personal cost but saving the galaxy from an even greater horror.

 

I too like this idea, but I think I'd like to do a variant of it. The player characters are indeed the descendants of primarchs, and the primarchs' souls have fused with the PCs' souls. This could have a variety of effects, such as strengthening the powers of psykers or navigators, sharpening the will, making someone more/less resistant to corruption and insanity, or causing someone to become a nascent psyker. However, it wouldn't cause someone's entire body to grow new organs and gain a couple feet in height. The ruinous powers can see that each primarch soul has now fused into one of the PC's souls, and the only way to get back those prizes is to kill the PCs and take the new amalgamations. However, they see this as an opportunity, and start juicing up the PCs so that mutate in a fashion appropriate to a primarch. Cue temptation, conflict, and manipulation by the ruinous ones as per Meph's post.

[Kerikath 0]

dosan said:

Maybe they have the genes of a primarch in them, because they are its descendants, but for becoming like them, they need help. Remember that if the Ruinous Powers know that they have Primarch level potential, but not the fortitude or " blessing" for mastering their powers, they are prime candidates for possesion and corruption. Also , i believe they will clash directly with the Ecchlesiarchy, because such thing as a Primarch reborn is difficult to explain, let alone to accept for them. Is as the Sensei, they are outcasts, since they are in a way outside the norm and customs of the Imperium.

This will be incorporated into the plot outlined above.

[Kerikath 0]

Charmander said:

Just so long as your aware of the impact that doing this would have on the established setting.  Not sure how hardcore you or your players are in the 40k universe, but if they're very into it you'll just need to be careful to try and treat their situation accordingly.  Given existing fluff, things that others have mentioned like being flown to terra, etc, would all be likely.  While the mutations may be subtle, a good inquisitor will keep an eye on his/her acolytes and will likely notice something is up.  An Inquisitor with powerful psychic powers is likely going to figure out something is amiss.  Any 'sequel' games in the setting will either need to ignore what you've done, or fully incorporate the impact - this is earthshaking at the galactic level.

 

None of my players know a lot about the fluff, some them hardly know anything. I do intend to be faithful to it regardless, however. As to their inquisitor noticing, currently he's vetting the characters in a trial-by-fire fashion, giving them no support and telling them solve a couple problems on their own. Of course, he has an agent watching them from a distance for him (ex seneschal). Consequently, the inqisitor will likely learn of the mutations over the course of these events if the PCs pull of something strange and unexpected, or if the PCs get biologically analyzed for some odd reason. The inquisitor has no psychic power of his own, although he does have a couple of psyker acolytes.

[Kerikath 0]

I need to figure out what the stats would be for a primarch that's just starting out, no experience. That's why I was deducting experience. Also, I've never read one of those stories involving a flipping ork nearly taking out the emperor. That is compeletely insane. Going to post again in the little while, as I need some advice for what to do with the situation my players have created with their PCs. And no, it's not in regards to their primarchyness.

[The Baron2 0]

Kerikath said:

The Baron said:

 

1. The Emperor is in fact the final evolution of mankind once man has gained total control over his psychic powers.

2. The Primarchs were clones of the Emperor. Each one had his genetic makeup altered (dominant/recessive genes turned on/off) and therefore they were more like... a different/imperfect version of the Emperor.

 

 

The concept that the Emperor is the pinnacle of human evolution has been stated by GW and made canon? Also, weren't the primarchs' souls infused with raw warp power, instead of being uber-shamans like the emperor?

The Baron said:

 

5. Morgan, Matriarch of the Horusians (She is the last living of the original 4 Inquisitor according to lore) would try to recreate the Primarchs by any means necessary and has power beyond comprehension (she lives in the Eye of Terror outside the notice of the Chaos Gods, has a whole group of ancient Inquisitors following her, has made use of sorcery/xenos devices/etc. that would make Rykehuss's head explode, and she's crafty like nothing else). Maybe your PCs are a result of her experiments?

 

 

I can't find Mogran in the Lexicanum, and Google isn't pulling up anything about her. Where is she from? Also, I don't see any benefit story-wise or roleplay-wise to having the emperor be watching over the PCs.

 

1. and 2. were stated by GW in their definitive Realms of Chaos. They have not been retconned (a lot of the older lore hasn't been due to the fact that it's necessary to exist for the 40k universe to exist; if there's no Star Child/Thorian Ressurection then there can be no Rhanda Dandara, which is why Gav Thrope couldn't kill the Star Child despite his wishes, merely rename it).  As for the Primarch's souls, this is a circular question. After all, it is infusion with raw warp power that makes the Emperor the uber-Shaman and the Shamans shaman . I could go on a longer discourse of the warp, but then Xisor would come around here at some point, tell me my theses are correct, but my mathematics stating Stephen Hawking's String Theory stating that there are a maximum of 25 (I believe) dimension is wrong, which leads to an unbelievably messy off-topic argument between the two of us. It happens every time no matter which forum the two of us are in lol.

 

It may be Morrigan, Morgana, or Morgan. I'm bad with names and it's been a few years since I've had to look it up. If, by some miracle, someone has kept alive the old PDFs for Inquisitor (the game that Dark Heresy is based off of) then you'll find it in the Thorian Sourcebook. It's also revealed in the first page of the Inquisitor's Handbook (the original one, not the Dark Heresy remake ) that the Emperor could have come off the Golden Throne a few decades after he was put on it. He wasn't for the "sake of stability of the Empire" and now cannot exist without it. Prometheus and M looked for a way to ressurect him. M was all for warpcraft, which lead her to found the Horusians seeing as how she realized (correctly) if Horus had the willpower he could have dominated the Chaos Gods (he did briefly when he supressed them to allow his human self to put down the shields surrounding his flagship). Prometheus figured the Emperor would ressurect himself and started looking for signs of this everywhere and trying to find suitable vessels to contain the Emperor along with ways to ressurect him faster. This, of course, is a variation of the old Star Child, Sensei, etc. lore made more palatable to those who for one reason or another opposed their inclusion.

 

Hope that helps!

[Kerikath 0]

The Baron said:

1. and 2. were stated by GW in their definitive Realms of Chaos.

The Baron said:

It's also revealed in the first page of the Inquisitor's Handbook (the original one, not the Dark Heresy remake ) that the Emperor could have come off the Golden Throne a few decades after he was put on it. He wasn't for the "sake of stability of the Empire" and now cannot exist without it. Prometheus and M looked for a way to ressurect him. M was all for warpcraft, which lead her to found the Horusians seeing as how she realized (correctly) if Horus had the willpower he could have dominated the Chaos Gods (he did briefly when he supressed them to allow his human self to put down the shields surrounding his flagship). Prometheus figured the Emperor would ressurect himself and started looking for signs of this everywhere and trying to find suitable vessels to contain the Emperor along with ways to ressurect him faster. This, of course, is a variation of the old Star Child, Sensei, etc. lore made more palatable to those who for one reason or another opposed their inclusion.

Hope that helps!

Cripes, there's so much canon material! Here's something I've always been curious about: If the emperor and his astral choir are necessary to generate the astronomicon so that imperial ships can travel the warp quickly and deeply, how did imperial ships travel in the pre-heresy era?

Now, onto the odd and potentially calamitous situation one of my players has created. First, I should probably outline the hidden goings-on in the campaign. The Pilgrims of Hayte have been on Scintilla for just over a year, long enough to have infested hives Sibellus and Tarsus, Gunmetal City, and Ambulon. They're being lead by Kitria, who isn't on the level of a False Prophet, but is definitely more powerful and cagey than your average cultist. She didn't maintain a strong enough grip on the spread-out cult for long enough, so random killings in suspicious and conspicuous style started happening sporadically despite her wishes. To prevent imperial forces from discovering the infestation before it was ready to do some real damage, she she created three fake ritual sites on Ambulon, one appearing to be for Khorne, one for Nurgle, and one for Tzeentch. They were discovered by the arbites, and marshal Dexus of Ambulon sent for help from the inquisition. Shortly after that, Kitria stalked and killed Dexus and took her place, assuming her appearance using sorcery. Kitria immediately directed the arbites investigations to look at the fake ritual sites, and not any of the real crime scenes created by the Pilgrims of Hayte. Kitria was not, however, aware that Dexus had contacted the inquisition.

The acolytes were dropped into Ambulon specifically to investigate those three sites and deal with them without support or supervision. A different inquisitor other than the party's own was already looking into events in hive Sibellus. This inquisitor sent one of his throne agents, an ex-seneschal turned interrogator named Lucius, to investigate some real crime scenes caused by the Pilgrims. Lucius found out about the party's presence after they investigated the three fake sites and contacted them to work out terms of jurisdiction, offer the acolytes answers to any questions they had, and give them a free meal at a restaraunt in hive Tarsus.

[Kerikath 0]

Ambulon was docked, so to speak, at hive Tarsus while it went about transferring its harvest of gems, oil, and ore. A temporary, massive walkway was erected between on level of the hive and Ambulon. After finishing their meal and conversation with Lucius, the PCs left and came upon a man who had been tortured and partially flayed by a group of five Pilgrims in an alley. The PCs found the heretics and killed them (in a pretty nice fashion, too), The PCs then escorted the man a short distance to the customs checkpoint on one end of the temporary walkway. The cleric PC leading the tortured man by the hand argued with the customs agents because he wanted to have the man taken to the infirmary at the arbites headquarters on Ambulon, instead of the nearest hospital in hive Tarsus. How did he win this argument.

Not only did the cleric tell the customs agents that the party was working under the direct remit of marshal Dexus, he then proceeded to tell the two women that the party was investigating some cult ritual sites. He also told them about the fact that the party had just discovered and killed five cultists in an alleyway. He then scared the bejesus out of the customs agents and the EMTs that had arrived by this time by telling them that there might be dangerous warp entities about. He then had to calm them back down, just so the EMTs would let the tortured man near them. The EMTs agreed to take the tortured man to the arbites headquarters infirmary, mostly so they wouldn't have to deal with him themselves. The customs agents insisted on the PCs being detained for questioning, and the player of the cleric didn't want to be detained, he really wanted to get the investigation moving quickly. So that's when he dropped the bombshell.

The cleric told the customs agents that he was an inquisitor, and ordered them not to bar his way. He succeeded on his deceive test by two degrees, while the agents failed their scrutiny tests by three and four degrees, with bonuses. The agents practically shat themselves and let him and the rest of the party pass. Everyone within hearing range of that end of the walkway heard the exchange, as the player is kind of loud, and the gossip quickly sweeps all around. The arbites were quickly radioed about an inquisitor being on the walkway, and Kitria quickly realized what had happened. She had an arbites transport pick them up and bring them to her headquarters. The cleric was soundly shouted down by Kitria, acting the part of an arbites marshal, for multiple reasons.

1. The cleric had just created a solid rumor, capable of being confirmed through listening in on arbites vox channels, that the inquisition is present on Scintilla, specifically Ambulon.
2. The party no had leads yet as to who caused created the ritual sites, and hadn't tried to take one of the Pilgrims from the back alley fight alive.
3. The tortured man is catatonic and not giving any information, and the psyker in the party doesn't have the necessary telepathic powers to get information.
4. Since it's now known that the inquisition is looking into Scintilla, all cultists present will be trying even harder to evade notice or go on a destructive rampage.
5. The PCs have no useful information about the cultists, so they can't predict what the cultists will do, and it's going to be hard to track down the roots of any heresy if they're under attack, and also still hard if everyone's trying to hide.

In short, the cleric has just initiated a massive terroristic cult uprising on Scintilla, and nobody is prepared for it. Or rather, this is the logic that Kitria, in her guise, is voicing. Kitria states that she could have the cleric publicly executed for impersonating an inquisitor, but that still wouldn't necessarily prevent cult activity from shifting, so she's come up with a plan. The cleric is going to make a public appearance while still pretending to be an inquisitor, essentially inviting a cultist attack on himself, so that as many cultists as possible can be nailed by prepared arbites forces. Of course, Kitria doesn't plan any of the party to survive this.

Anyone have any suggestions as to how I should carry this out?

[The Baron2 0]

I'm not too sure if I'll be able to help you too much with the schematics (want to send me a message with your e-mail and we can talk it out if need be?).

As for what happened pre-heresy, the Emperor used to have his soul intact and therefore didn't need to consume the souls of others. Of course, if you take the Horus Heresy Card Game as canon (So far they've followed it pretty well), then the Golden Throne is in fact a warp gate tapping into the Eldar's webway and the reason that the Emperor suddenly needed to secure it was because of the fact that when Magnus tried to tell the Emperor that Horus was going to rebel he broke through the wards on said webway allowing for daemons to pour into it. Anything other than that...

[stormyfs 0]

The Acolytes outrank the Arbites Marshal. It is up to them to reveal whenever, and to whomever they wish, their membership (although low-grade) in the Inquisition, and alarm bells would be ringing, if your group knew anything about the history and structure of the Imperium.

As for your Primarch idea, you mentioned Magnus and have a psyker in the team. Hopefully you aren't connecting the two, especially as Magnus is actually a bad guy.

Other than that, "eh, it's your game" I've done similar in the past and sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Good luck.

[Asgard4tw 0]

 I think it could be a bad idea.  Are the players aware they are slowly mutating into something immensely powerful?  Would their characters want that?  If the Geller field broke down and the warp was mutating them, their minds would be cracking and more than just innate mutations would be happening to them.  

If someone devote enough to the Emperor realizes that they are mutating, what would they do?  Would they accept what is happening to them?  Would they allow it to continue?  Run and hide?  Go insane?  Bullet to the brainpan?  Unless they get a deus ex machina dream sequence that informs them they are the descendents of the most powerful children of the Emperor, there are going to be some internal difficulties with their rise to power.  Someone is going to notice if they can suddenly dodge bullets or crush a rhino tank with their bare hands, or perform some amazingly complex equation/tech sequence, when the day before they were joe-schmo.  Other people would begin to notice as well.  Especially Inquisitors.  

But there is lots of potential for some really cool conflicts, internal and external, so that might be worth it.  Though i doubt many inquisitors (maybe some radicals) would allow any of their own to mutate, so having the primarchs to be reach rank 16 might be too lofty a task.