Cosmetic changes for the Fire Selector.

[HappyDaze 10,108]

I'm considering a few cosmetic options to retool the Fire Selector.  I think the idea of three full-sized magazines stricking out of the weapon is just absurd.  Right now, I'm thinking that the fire selector replaces the regular "banana clip magazine" with a detachable drum that holds triple the normal amount of ammo.  The drum is designed with three internal chambers that can each be loaded as desired.and a selector that can be used to draw from the desired chamber.  A single special ammo requisition is of sufficient quantity to fill one chamber of a drum.  While this change is almost entirely cosmetic, it does mean that replacing a drum is an all-or-nothing task.

[Charmander2 6]

An interesting HR- if I recall, some of the books describe folks using drum magaznes on bolt pistols and rifles, so it's not that much of a stretch.  And the image of three giant clips hanging off one gun somehow loading into the chamber is purged from my brain

[HappyDaze 10,108]

Charmander said:

An interesting HR- if I recall, some of the books describe folks using drum magaznes on bolt pistols and rifles, so it's not that much of a stretch.  And the image of three giant clips hanging off one gun somehow loading into the chamber is purged from my brain

Somehow that last sentence sounded vaguely pornographic.  **** internet!  Now I need to purge several images from my brain, but I'm glad I could help with this one.

[Traveller61 3]

HappyDaze - not a bad idea

In the Inquisitor game they have the stats for a drum magazine: it holds 40 rounds but is more prone to jamming, needs 2 rounds to clear.

Or, if you like the Forge World stuff, they produce a Umbra Ferrox bolter with a box magazine that looks to hold at least twice the normal capacity. And the blurb mentions that it can be loaded with different ammunition types.

DW  

[Radomo 0]

 I prefer this interpretation to porcupine bolters with magazine jutting all over the place.  Well done.

[darkrose50 7]

Apparently the cover of Deathwatch shows a Bolter with three magazines. The side bits marked I and II. They protrude out the side of the bolter. In the painting it looks suspicious. To me those two side clips appear to be smaller.

I have two opinions:
1) The painter painted them smaller than they are. They are full clips, and should stick out further. Perhaps they stick out further, popping out, right before use.
2) They are smaller bolter pistol clips. This would allow for bolter pistol ammo to be used effectively.

I like the pistol ammo option. It would allow for a kill team to requisition different special ammo, and trade it about (you get two clips with 14 ammo, in stay one clip with 28 ammo). It would also require more turns reloading ammo.

I have also been told that there are TT miniatures with bolt-guns with five clips (one on the bottom, and two on each side). Perhaps the option on the upgrade table could be taken again to add two more clips.

 

 

[N0-1_H3r3 287]

darkrose50 said:

Apparently the cover of Deathwatch shows a Bolter with three magazines. The side bits marked I and II. They protrude out the side of the bolter. In the painting it looks suspicious. To me those two side clips appear to be smaller.

To be honest, the panels marked I and II seem almost like they could be covers for additional magazine ports, so you remove them and additional magazines into the side of the bolter to supplement the primary magazine under the weapon. Even loaded with three magazines, a Godwyn-Deathwatch pattern Bolter (that is, a Godwyn-pattern Bolter with Shot Selector) weighs just under 23kg, which isn't difficult to manage for a Marine, even if it skews the balance a little.

That speculation aside, I like the idea of shot selectors that intelligently draw from a single large hopper or drum of ammo, or those that draw from one or more small magazines loaded with specialist rounds upon command.

As an aside, Hellfire Rounds for Heavy Bolters - in 2nd edition 40k, when they were a standard part of the weapon's profile - used to be loaded manually one at a time as required rather than stored with the weapon's other ammunition. That's a feature I'll definitely be bringing back - a Full Action (modified by Rapid Reload as normal) to disengage the weapon's normal ammo feed and load a Hellfire shell manually.

[borithan 237]

I think the "single shot" nature of the Heavy Bolter when loaded with hellfire is already taken into account (by the fact it can only be fired on single shot if using Hellfire rounds). I am guessing they have some quick loading slot for the single rounds which means that loading them is fairly inconsequential. I don't think there was ever any point it was said that the normal ammo feed needed to be disengaged.

[N0-1_H3r3 287]

borithan said:

I don't think there was ever any point it was said that the normal ammo feed needed to be disengaged.

Common sense. If your Heavy Bolter is supplied by a powered ammo feed (as Astartes ones are), then you'll need to stop that feed if you want to load and fire another shell from a different source.

[Data007 0]

We made that mistake in an earlier game where I forgot my heavy bolter couldn't have a shot selector. Made that clip of Hellfire I bought a lot less shiny.

[kenshin138 3]

 We discussed this in our group on Saturday and decided to run with the following options:

1. The fire selector lets you attach two clips into the bolter. Basically does a Y with the ammo feed.

2. The fire selector can be a drum that does the same thing.

This potentially means that they can go through two clips of ammo without having to reload, but I'm ok with that. We too disliked the idea of the "porcupine bolter" as mentioned.

That, and drum magazines look dead 'ard.

[Fritzel Von Dungeon 0]

The Inquisitor model "Brother Captain Artemis" featured a bolter with selectable magazines and side mounted magazines like in the picture.  Those boxes labeled I and II are in fact small magazines that hold 5-ish rounds.  I have limited my players that a fire selector to either have a full magazine must reload special ammo or use the switch with a magazine capable of two bursts or 5-6 semi shots.

[Lynata 2,228]

The drum is indeed a cool idea. Two magazines would look weird enough, and three seem even worse. Whilst the actual bolts are fairly small, the magazines themselves are armoured and thus quite thick (not to mention that the rounds are stacked next to each other instead of in a single line)...

I could actually imagine a boltgun with three magazines where each one is fixed on a single side, kind of like a crossbow. But that seems to be a way more complicated weapon upgrade than just including a switch.

 

Traveller61 said:

In the Inquisitor game they have the stats for a drum magazine: it holds 40 rounds but is more prone to jamming, needs 2 rounds to clear.

Oh, yeah! That reminds me of this.

I guess you could use the 60 rounds version and make it compatible with the fire selector (so, 20 rounds in each chamber). Using the drum makes the weapon less reliable (as in removing a Reliable trait if it had one, or gaining Unreliable if it didn't).

As per the little box in the picture you could also introduce the straight clip with, say, 20 rounds, which makes reloading it a Free Action.

 

darkrose50 said:

Apparently the cover of Deathwatch shows a Bolter with three magazines. The side bits marked I and II. They protrude out the side of the bolter. In the painting it looks suspicious. To me those two side clips appear to be smaller.

Huh, I actually thought those were buttons - given that the "II" one is covered by the shadow of "I" and thus appears to be pushed into the gun a bit deeper.

 

[Traveller61 3]

Fritzel Von Dungeon said:

The Inquisitor model "Brother Captain Artemis" featured a bolter with selectable magazines and side mounted magazines like in the picture.  Those boxes labeled I and II are in fact small magazines that hold 5-ish rounds.  I have limited my players that a fire selector to either have a full magazine must reload special ammo or use the switch with a magazine capable of two bursts or 5-6 semi shots.

Phew! I'm glad someone else remembers this. I was looking for the text in the rules about the smaller number of rounds in the II & III mags but could not find it. It seems to make more sense to me rather than having two extra full mags; and it makes the special ammo a bit more special as you have to really think about when you are going to use it.

Lynata: I am impressed! You manage to find a fluff quote / picture for almost every occasion  

Was that 3rd Edition Marine codex, or am I way off? 

DW

[r206 0]

If you look at the old 54mm inquisitor model for Brother Artemis you'll see that his bolter actually has four extra small magazines, two on each side.
We've changed the fire selector for bolters to accept four extra eight round magazines in addition to the standard 28 round mag. The players can requisition three small magazines for the listed req cost or one small mag for 1/3 (round up) req.

[Santiago 37]

 I prefere the three side by side mag's in front of the trigger.