Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0
evilamericorp

Force Weapon question

47 posts in this topic

Can the bonus dice from channeling psy power into a force weapon trigger righteous fury? It seems like they should be able to, since they're damage dice, but that has the potential for ridiculous amounts of damage from each attack, and how would it work? Would you have to reroll the opposed WP test for each 10 on the bonus dice? My group is undecided on the issue so far.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

hi,

So I literally read up both rules and examples of use. It does appear to be the case that any damage rolled that does not preclude Righteous Fury should be used, as far as the weapon being overpowered is considered then remember that a psyker weilding a force weapon could just as easily use Smite and push it which puts in even more damage. But remember the weapon is not guaranteed to do the damage as far as I can see. There must be the opposed willpower test. I suppose if you wanted a balance in place you could award a corruption point as the Librarian is locking minds with something beyond human (or heretical) and thus corrupt.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Can you 'push it' when making the Focus Power check to use the special ability of the force sword? And, are you subject to the same psychic phenomena / perils of the warp as normal when making this test?

I cant find anything preventing it, as it does say you make a Focus Power check with targets WP opposed roll - as per a normal opposed psychic power,

What do you think?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Personally, I would rule that righteous fury can only occur due to damage that is the direct result of a successful WS or BS test. This is partly because it must be confirmable, and also is per my reading of righteous fury ("when rolling damage after a successful attack"). I don't view the channeled energy from a psy weapon as a "attack" (its an opposed test). If it were treated as such, would the roll to confirm be a second opposed test?

 

Does toxic damage cause RF? If so, how is the roll to confirm handled?

Suigintou1 likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 And... how is the D.o.S. calculated for extra damage of a force weapon after an opposed WP test.

If librarian's test attains 4 D.o.S. vs defenders 1 D.o.S. - is this calculated as 3 D.o.S. for damage purposes?

Or, as long as you have won the opposed roll, are all the D.o.S. used for damage? (i.e 4 D.o.D)

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

KommissarK said:

Personally, I would rule that righteous fury can only occur due to damage that is the direct result of a successful WS or BS test. This is partly because it must be confirmable, and also is per my reading of righteous fury ("when rolling damage after a successful attack"). I don't view the channeled energy from a psy weapon as a "attack" (its an opposed test). If it were treated as such, would the roll to confirm be a second opposed test?

 

Does toxic damage cause RF? If so, how is the roll to confirm handled?

By that logic, normal psychic powers also wouldn't be able to cause righteous fury, as they use WP rather than WS or BS. You can confirm either one by rerolling your focus power test. I might as my GM if I can just treat it as a separate source of damage that can cause RF by itself, rather than lump in its damage with the force weapon's regular damage.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

sayles78 said:

 And, are you subject to the same psychic phenomena / perils of the warp as normal when making this test?

Any time you activate a power roll you are subject to Phenomena/Perils unless otherwise stated. The only instance I can recall stating you cannot cause Phenomena/Perils are on Sustain checks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

ItsUncertainWho said:

sayles78 said:

 

 And, are you subject to the same psychic phenomena / perils of the warp as normal when making this test?

 

 

Any time you activate a power roll you are subject to Phenomena/Perils unless otherwise stated. The only instance I can recall stating you cannot cause Phenomena/Perils are on Sustain checks.

The force sword's channeling is not a psychic power, it is an action granted by the item. You do not choose a power level to go with it (this only happens with psychic powers), and are therefore are not subject to phenomena/perils.

Suigintou1 likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

evilamericorp said:

 

KommissarK said:

 

Personally, I would rule that righteous fury can only occur due to damage that is the direct result of a successful WS or BS test. This is partly because it must be confirmable, and also is per my reading of righteous fury ("when rolling damage after a successful attack"). I don't view the channeled energy from a psy weapon as a "attack" (its an opposed test). If it were treated as such, would the roll to confirm be a second opposed test?

 

Does toxic damage cause RF? If so, how is the roll to confirm handled?

 

 

By that logic, normal psychic powers also wouldn't be able to cause righteous fury, as they use WP rather than WS or BS. You can confirm either one by rerolling your focus power test. I might as my GM if I can just treat it as a separate source of damage that can cause RF by itself, rather than lump in its damage with the force weapon's regular damage.

 

 

I may be daft, but could you point me to the page where it says psychic powers do cause righteous fury? I'm under the impression that if they do, a pushed smite (any d10xPR power) is an auto kill (so many dice, almost a guarantee to multiply damage a few times).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

decPL said:

evilamericorp said:

 

KommissarK said:

 

Personally, I would rule that righteous fury can only occur due to damage that is the direct result of a successful WS or BS test. This is partly because it must be confirmable, and also is per my reading of righteous fury ("when rolling damage after a successful attack"). I don't view the channeled energy from a psy weapon as a "attack" (its an opposed test). If it were treated as such, would the roll to confirm be a second opposed test?

 

Does toxic damage cause RF? If so, how is the roll to confirm handled?

 

 

By that logic, normal psychic powers also wouldn't be able to cause righteous fury, as they use WP rather than WS or BS. You can confirm either one by rerolling your focus power test. I might as my GM if I can just treat it as a separate source of damage that can cause RF by itself, rather than lump in its damage with the force weapon's regular damage.

 

 

I may be daft, but could you point me to the page where it says psychic powers do cause righteous fury? I'm under the impression that if they do, a pushed smite (any d10xPR power) is an auto kill (so many dice, almost a guarantee to multiply damage a few times).

 

It doesn't say so explicitly I think but if you are to apply the standard damage rules, Righteous Fury will be included. Also I only reroll the dices that show-up 10 with RF as a house rule.

 

Alex

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 Well heck, I guess psychic powers don't RF by the rules. Huh. Who would have guessed that shooting someone with lightning wouldn't count as an attack...

On the flip side, i guess that means that psychic powers also can't be dodged...

 

After a thorough read through of the rules for psychic powers, it seems like they were thrown together haphazardly by copy pasting from their other games, and not proofread well. The examples have seemingly incorrect numbers, and references that don't show up anywhere else in the rules, and the Focus Power action states that all psychic powers should have at least one action subtype (movement, attack, melee, ranged, defense, etc) and none of them do.

The more I look through this book, the less impressed I am with it...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

evilamericorp said:

 

The force sword's channeling is not a psychic power, it is an action granted by the item. You do not choose a power level to go with it (this only happens with psychic powers), and are therefore are not subject to phenomena/perils.

 

You are incorrect.  The special ability of a Force Weapon (page 155) requires a Focus Power Test.  Per the write-up of the Focus Power Test action (page 239), it is a Psychic Power (this action is used to manifest Psychic Powers in combat) and is therefore subject to Phenomena/Perils.

In fact, every iteration of the Force Weapon; from Dark Heresy to Rogue Trader to Deathwatch, has the potential for the use of this special ability to cause Phenomena/Perils.  You are still tapping into and harnessing the Warp, and on an even more primal level.  It is a power balance factor.

-=Brother Praetus=-

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Brother Praetus said:

 

evilamericorp said:

 

 

The force sword's channeling is not a psychic power, it is an action granted by the item. You do not choose a power level to go with it (this only happens with psychic powers), and are therefore are not subject to phenomena/perils.

 

 

 

You are incorrect.  The special ability of a Force Weapon (page 155) requires a Focus Power Test.  Per the write-up of the Focus Power Test action (page 239), it is a Psychic Power (this action is used to manifest Psychic Powers in combat) and is therefore subject to Phenomena/Perils.

In fact, every iteration of the Force Weapon; from Dark Heresy to Rogue Trader to Deathwatch, has the potential for the use of this special ability to cause Phenomena/Perils.  You are still tapping into and harnessing the Warp, and on an even more primal level.  It is a power balance factor.

-=Brother Praetus=-

 

 

 

Same as my understanding. It simply tells us to make a Focus Power Test. So, use the rules for a focus power test. It is a Focus Power test that causes Phenomena & Perils. Also, I believe, when making such a test, one can choose one of the 3 power levels to take the test with. As I interpret - a Focus Power test - is a psychic power test - so all rules, limits, advantages and disadvantages should apply.

 

I know this has no bearing what-so-ever, but worth a mention. In WH40k tabletop, using a force weapon's special ability is classed as a psychic power in every way. It counts towards the limit of casting pyschic powers per turn, can be nullified as per a psychic power and can also cause perils of the warp as per a pyschic power.

Suigintou1 likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Brother Praetus said:

evilamericorp said:

 

 

The force sword's channeling is not a psychic power, it is an action granted by the item. You do not choose a power level to go with it (this only happens with psychic powers), and are therefore are not subject to phenomena/perils.

 

 

 

You are incorrect.  The special ability of a Force Weapon (page 155) requires a Focus Power Test.  Per the write-up of the Focus Power Test action (page 239), it is a Psychic Power (this action is used to manifest Psychic Powers in combat) and is therefore subject to Phenomena/Perils.

In fact, every iteration of the Force Weapon; from Dark Heresy to Rogue Trader to Deathwatch, has the potential for the use of this special ability to cause Phenomena/Perils.  You are still tapping into and harnessing the Warp, and on an even more primal level.  It is a power balance factor.

-=Brother Praetus=-

 

Where in the entry for the force sword does it say to "take a Focus Power action?" It says "Make a Focus Power test" the rules for which can be found on page 185, AFTER the rules for choosing power levels. This is going strictly by rules as written, not any interpretations. Nowhere does it say that the force sword's ability is a psychic power. It is its own free action granted by using the weapon.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

evilamericorp said:

Nowhere does it say that the force sword's ability is a psychic power. It is its own free action granted by using the weapon.

Except for the fact that a Force weapon can only be used by a Psyker who channels the warp into it. So I guess that's not psychic at all then.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

ItsUncertainWho said:

evilamericorp said:

 

Nowhere does it say that the force sword's ability is a psychic power. It is its own free action granted by using the weapon.

 

 

Except for the fact that a Force weapon can only be used by a Psyker who channels the warp into it. So I guess that's not psychic at all then.

Psychic, yes. Psychic Power, no. Nowhere in the book does it say the ability either is a Psychic Power, or follows the rules for Psychic Powers. It just says to make a Focus Power Test, which is different from a Focus Power action.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 Psychic, yes. Psychic Power, no. Nowhere in the book does it say the ability either is a Psychic Power, or follows the rules for Psychic Powers. It just says to make a Focus Power Test, which is different from a Focus Power action.

So which power rating do you apply to it?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 Why? The rating you use for the Focus Power Test isn't your psy rating, but the one you choose from the Fettered/Unfettered/Pushed rules. If there's no choosing between them, neither is there any specific psy rating since the Focus Power Test only says "you may add a bonus to your Focus Power Test equal to 5 times the Psy Rating used for the power". That you use your "base" psy rating is an interpretation on your part, but since you're so adamant about following the RAW...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 Um... was that ever the question? No RPG works by following the RAW, that's why tabletop gaming hasn't been completely replaced by video games. However, given the substantial evidence from the tabletop and more importantly the incarnations of Force Weapons in DH and RT, it's fairly clear what interpretation to choose - the one that doesn't suddenly require to construct a mechanic never seen in the rest of the game, a psychic action that doesn't conform to the Fettered/Unfettered/Push Focus Power rules and just picks out an arbitrary part of it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Cifer said:

 Um... was that ever the question? No RPG works by following the RAW, that's why tabletop gaming hasn't been completely replaced by video games. However, given the substantial evidence from the tabletop and more importantly the incarnations of Force Weapons in DH and RT, it's fairly clear what interpretation to choose - the one that doesn't suddenly require to construct a mechanic never seen in the rest of the game, a psychic action that doesn't conform to the Fettered/Unfettered/Push Focus Power rules and just picks out an arbitrary part of it.

 

We agree on something sir. A psychic (force) weapon, being used by a psyker, making a test based on his psy-rating using same attribute as a psychic power, said test being described in the psychic (force) section. Jeez.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 Hmm... apparently it's impossible to damage an opponent with a spell using RAW as well. The rules for determining hit location are dependent specifically on having a WS or BS roll to reverse, which Smite doesn't have. Therefore, no way to determine where it hits for armor reduction or critical effect.

This game has more loopholes than Exalted...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Cifer said:

 IIRC, whenever damage occurs to a nonspecific location, it should be assumed to be the body.

I know that's the case for when a character is taking damage from being on fire, but I don't think that's a general rule listed anywhere.

I could be wrong, though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0