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Suijin

No helmet, really?

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I don't think I could be allowed to GM a game where a space wolf or another marine runs around with their helmet off.  I would be making called shots for the head all day long on them.  Sure I would miss more, but a hit would be an automatic +8 damage.  Or just use a flamer type weapon to autohit them in the head, even better.

Imagine a space wolf hit by a flamer with his head on fire running around screaming due to failing his willpower roll, as his whole action for that round, and taking another 1d10 + 4 damage with just his toughness for defense.

I know it is in the lore/pictures for marines to run around like that.  It just kind of flies in the face of common sense for me.

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A true Space Wolf would wear the scars with pride.

 

You're saying that a space marine should be afraid of getting hit in the head and thus should wear his helmet? Space Marines have no fear thus they will wear their helmets when they deign to and never before.

 

On a less fluffy note yes game mechanic wise they can be screwed over by not wearing it but this is a cinematic game... When does a hero in a movie wear a that fully covers his/ her face? Suspend your disbelief and enjoy the game or go play DnD

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maniacmcgoo said:

A true Space Wolf would wear the scars with pride.

You're saying that a space marine should be afraid of getting hit in the head and thus should wear his helmet? Space Marines have no fear thus they will wear their helmets when they deign to and never before.

On a less fluffy note yes game mechanic wise they can be screwed over by not wearing it but this is a cinematic game... When does a hero in a movie wear a that fully covers his/ her face? Suspend your disbelief and enjoy the game or go play DnD

Well, I started off saying I shouldn't be allowed to GM a game where that happens.  I also stated it was part of the fluff, but just seemed a really bad idea to do.

No fear doesn't equal no brains.  Although, it would soon if you don't wear your brain bucket.

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Well, from a strictly game rule point of view, a called shot to the head means no full-auto or burst... so fairly easy to dodge. So it's not that bad really.

Nothing prevent the Space Wolf from only taking off his helmet when he needs his super-sense either.

 

 

 

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All Marines should know never to wear a helmet. Its in the Codex Astartes. Unless you're a Devastator Marine or a Terminator. Cause really, that sh*ts just wicked.

For the rest of you Marines thinking that Mark VIII plate helmet is a good idea....take a lesson from Carmine.

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Well, a Marine's skull does come with more protective abilities than a normal person in body armour, with the exception that it isn't subject to Penetration (?), so... Do they need it? ;)

Kage

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The unnatural toughness alone can negate most small-arms fire from autopistols and las-weapons... so yeah I think the reduced probability of getting hit in the head and the toughness bonuses make it not nearly as far-fetched as a normal joe trying to navigate a battlefield without his helmet.

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Suijin said:

 

I don't think I could be allowed to GM a game where a space wolf or another marine runs around with their helmet off.  I would be making called shots for the head all day long on them.  Sure I would miss more, but a hit would be an automatic +8 damage.  Or just use a flamer type weapon to autohit them in the head, even better.

Imagine a space wolf hit by a flamer with his head on fire running around screaming due to failing his willpower roll, as his whole action for that round, and taking another 1d10 + 4 damage with just his toughness for defense.

I know it is in the lore/pictures for marines to run around like that.  It just kind of flies in the face of common sense for me.

 

 

 

 

Its not common sense - its a role playing game. You as a GM should do everything in your power to SUPPORT players who do things like run around with their helmet off BECAUSE it flies in the face of "Common Sense". You should take some pot shots at him, let him here the zing past his ear, but even if the roll says head shot, you should move it someplace else BECAUSE he is role playing.

In my book the difference between a good role player and a munchkin is the player who does something, not because its the best decision to achieve the "goal" of the game, but because it is what their character would do.

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Darq said:

Suijin said:

 

I don't think I could be allowed to GM a game where a space wolf or another marine runs around with their helmet off.  I would be making called shots for the head all day long on them.  Sure I would miss more, but a hit would be an automatic +8 damage.  Or just use a flamer type weapon to autohit them in the head, even better.

Imagine a space wolf hit by a flamer with his head on fire running around screaming due to failing his willpower roll, as his whole action for that round, and taking another 1d10 + 4 damage with just his toughness for defense.

I know it is in the lore/pictures for marines to run around like that.  It just kind of flies in the face of common sense for me.

 

 

 

 

Its not common sense - its a role playing game. You as a GM should do everything in your power to SUPPORT players who do things like run around with their helmet off BECAUSE it flies in the face of "Common Sense". You should take some pot shots at him, let him here the zing past his ear, but even if the roll says head shot, you should move it someplace else BECAUSE he is role playing.

In my book the difference between a good role player and a munchkin is the player who does something, not because its the best decision to achieve the "goal" of the game, but because it is what their character would do.

 

Personally I think there are no shoulds. I can very well imagine a more gritty and grimdark interpretation of the Deathwatch RPG. One without Fate Points to spend. Where being in the DW was less sth heroic but a bitter, hard-fought fight to get the upper hand on the xeno threat just somehow. Trying to take any advantage you get because the xeno will throw every advantage he can get at you without mercy.

 

I opt for the more heroic/cineastic interpretation though.

 

Alex

 

 

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I, on the other hand, opt for the more realistic version.  I'm all for certain amounts of plot armouring and ensuring that the game revolves around the players, but there's only so much vicarious living that I can get around on. :D

Of course, this doesn't mean that the highly cinematic version is to be sniffed at.  Indeed, it's the base assumption for the Deathwatch game!

Kage

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Darq said:

 

Its not common sense - its a role playing game. You as a GM should do everything in your power to SUPPORT players who do things like run around with their helmet off BECAUSE it flies in the face of "Common Sense". You should take some pot shots at him, let him here the zing past his ear, but even if the roll says head shot, you should move it someplace else BECAUSE he is role playing.

In my book the difference between a good role player and a munchkin is the player who does something, not because its the best decision to achieve the "goal" of the game, but because it is what their character would do.

 

 

Are you telling me then that a sniper wouldn't see a bare head and shoot it? Isn't that roleplaying too?

If I constantly move head shots to other locations so someone can have their helmet off because "that's what their character would do", I would feel that I  failed as a GM. That being said, I would not generally have my NPCs sniping or aiming at that marine's head on every shot, but when facing someone that knows it's easier to punch through a skull than to attempt to go through ceramite armor, that NPC will take the head shot.

The moral of the story here is wear your helmets.

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Kage2020 said:

I, on the other hand, opt for the more realistic version.  I'm all for certain amounts of plot armouring and ensuring that the game revolves around the players, but there's only so much vicarious living that I can get around on. :D

Of course, this doesn't mean that the highly cinematic version is to be sniffed at.  Indeed, it's the base assumption for the Deathwatch game!

Kage

 

Lol, bolter p**n.

 

Alex

 

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Darq said:

Suijin said:

I don't think I could be allowed to GM a game where a space wolf or another marine runs around with their helmet off.  I would be making called shots for the head all day long on them.  Sure I would miss more, but a hit would be an automatic +8 damage.  Or just use a flamer type weapon to autohit them in the head, even better.

Imagine a space wolf hit by a flamer with his head on fire running around screaming due to failing his willpower roll, as his whole action for that round, and taking another 1d10 + 4 damage with just his toughness for defense.

I know it is in the lore/pictures for marines to run around like that.  It just kind of flies in the face of common sense for me.

 Its not common sense - its a role playing game. You as a GM should do everything in your power to SUPPORT players who do things like run around with their helmet off BECAUSE it flies in the face of "Common Sense". You should take some pot shots at him, let him here the zing past his ear, but even if the roll says head shot, you should move it someplace else BECAUSE he is role playing.

In my book the difference between a good role player and a munchkin is the player who does something, not because its the best decision to achieve the "goal" of the game, but because it is what their character would do.

I don't gun specifically for players, but there are reasons they issue a helmet with your suit of armor.

Unless it really is as we were joking and it's a fake head up there, where the real guy is looking out through the neck or something.

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Suijin said:

 

 

I don't gun specifically for players, but there are reasons they issue a helmet with your suit of armor.

Standard issue is for dweebs, apparently.  One could argue that a good roleplayer is going to roleplay their character and that they're not going to bother with buffing mechanics like Demeanours and Squad/Solo Mode.  :D

Kage

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Kage2020 said:

Suijin said:

 

 

 

I don't gun specifically for players, but there are reasons they issue a helmet with your suit of armor.

 

 

Standard issue is for dweebs, apparently.  One could argue that a good roleplayer is going to roleplay their character and that they're not going to bother with buffing mechanics like Demeanours and Squad/Solo Mode.  :D

Kage

 

There is no accounting for taste, including what good role-playing is supposed to be.

 

Alex

 

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ak-73 said:

There is no accounting for taste, including what good role-playing is supposed to be.

Not sure if that is your standard posting, so I'll take it as face value and say "true."  How much of a crutch do you want?

Kage

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*grins and points to the long list of blood chits in his GM board*

 

TPK all the way.  and I've never had to RFED to get them. (Despite one player making no fewer then 27 back to back saving throws in the space of five min.  'Trapped hallway?  I'll just run right threw it!" and they did.  It would have had to have been shot in bullet time)

 

 Though to this day the one which has stuck in my mind most for ten years  Teifling bard with high charisma: "I roll to seduce Llolth!" (20) 'Dude, you do know that spiders eat their mates, right?

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Personally I am not trying to kill my players. Combat is second to the story the way I run my games. That's not to say that combat is not frequent. Its supposed to be fun and challenging but in the end I want to see the crew win. I want to see them expose the traitor and exact revenge So I turn down the level of smarts the bad guys have in a firefight. I never let my players know, that would spoil it.

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BaronIveagh said:

Oh, sure, if they're roleplaying, sure.  If they're trying to just kill things and take their stuff, on the other hand...

At which point, a hidden advantage of Astartes gear being significantly better than the gear in the other games becomes apparent - what is the point in looting in a game where the enemy's guns aren't as good as yours?

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Artaxerxes said:

If you have someone silly enough to not wear a helmet have a Psyker with a Lascannon make a Divine Shot to the head.

 

He'll start wearing a helmet after that

 

Check out the Penetration of a Lascannon. He could be running around stark naked for all the difference it'd do.

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I'd allow my players do do what they like. Running around without a helmet is iconic as well as cinematic and in full accordance with the spirit of the game, as has been stated. But. I would take the odd sniper shot at them, now and then, to reinforce that removing your headgear is non-standard and comes with its own dangers. They would be able to use their perceptive senses unhindered and basically be cool, but probably not have vox and be forced to make toxicity rolls when applicable. As well as taking the odd dum-dum bullet in the face and replace their chins, ofc.

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The book includes Space Wolf specific abilities that can only be used when the helmet is off. These abilities are in keeping with the fluffy source material, so to insist that PCs always wear a helmet is to deny the player the use of these unique abilities. That's no fun. And please, let's not bring the "real world" into it. In the real world there are plenty of people who choose not to wear a helmet when riding a motorcycle. I think that the evidence supports the fact that this is a pretty stupid choice, but it doesn't stop thousands of people from making that choice every day. So in the fantasy world of 40k, even with evidence to support the idea that not wearing a helmet may be more hazardous to your heath, I can easily imagine some marines might still choose not to do so, especially those with abilities that wearing a helmet interferes with.

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