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andrewm9

Blood of Martyrs question

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 Part of the reason why people mention they are playtesters is the fact that sometimes they are encouraged to talk about what they are playtesting.  This always comes with a very specific set of guidelines, but it has happened from time to time. Personally, I usually never bother mentioning I'm a playtester if I can't talk about it, because I know I'm an idiot and I"ll let something slip if I start running my mouth, so I just stay away. Even once books come out and I don't have my copy yet, I stay away, since sometimes things won't make it into the book, but  are slated for a future release. We don't know what's made the final cut until we actually see it in print. As for BoM...I bet it's gonna be awesome when it comes out, and I bet I'll buy I copy.

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 I'm not quite sure what's being complained about - there's information in pretty much every post about a new supplement. "You'll like it" for me translates to "this is focused upon in detail and not only given a quarter page of vague description". And let's not forget Millandson's pagelong "Even though Orks were announced as a playable race for ItS, the second race *might* still be something other than Eldar *winkwinknudgenudge*" posts.

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Personally I'd prefer that developers just throw us the 'bits' rather than playtesters interacting on any level when it comes to discussing same said bits with a community and it would be nice if the community was thrown a bone more frequently. Essentially whenever I picked up a beta to either RPG's or computer games, been a part of business deals or security services as part of work- an NDA just means shut up and dont tell anyone, dont say anything, dont even bother to tell anyone you're doing anything and add nothing to any hypothetical discussion.

That way, no one gets their **** twisted in a knot or inadvertantly assumes anything because nothing pisses people off to insane levels than a secret! I mean look at Peacekeeper, you've made him all cranky gui%C3%B1o.gif

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Well, let's hope FFG delivers the goods with this book. I'm just reading over the Ecclesiarchy section in the Inquisitor's Handbook and the cults detailed there are weak to say the least (I know that book wasn't written by FFG).

Do we know (or can it be known) who the writers of this book are? I seem to remember that Reason had some very good stuff posted on the Ecclesiarchy over at rpg.net...

And yeah, where are the Dark Heresy designer diaries? Rogue Trader and Deathwatch seem to dominate in the past few months; so com'on Mack, give us some goodies!

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N0-1_H3r3 said:

Peacekeeper_b said:

Oh I appreciate everything they do do. They do great work. But honestly, them saying "its great stuff you will like it" is not really talking about it.

 

But with any book that's been announced, that does change; as more information is released, we - playtesters and contributors alike - can discuss more and more about it.

I've never seen there being a problem with developer interaction with the community; for as long as I can remember, I've sought it out wherever possible at games conventions and on the internet. Now that I'm on the other side of that, I find it occasionally disappointing how parts of the community I still consider myself part of would rather I not be a part of it (to varying extents) just because I have knowledge that I can't freely share.

In general I agree with your stance here N0-1-h3r3. Being able to say things like "well orks can do X and Y and have Z in the armoury" is nice and helpful. But the majority of the posts I see on the subject is simply "Im a playtester you are going to love this." Which to me doesnt help at all and is the lowest form of pandering.

Because honestly, you are not going to say, and probably are forbidden by the NDA to say "yeah, Im a playtester and this stuff sucks!" Even if, as a contributor, you thing the book is the biggest pile of crap ever, its your work, its your job and if the book sells you can get more work. Its like reading a review for a Warner Brothers movie in the back of a Warner Brothers magazine.

Once the information is released and you fellas can talk about it, it becomes even more pointless other then the nudge nudge wink wink oh yeah, I wrote that. Now some of the threads such as "Deathwatch Q&A" and "Ive Got Into the Storm" are nice and helpful to hold over those people who havent got the book yet, the Q&A answers and what not really have nothing to do with designers and playtesters, but instead people who have the books.

Again, I appreciate all the effort and work you fellas do on these books, and even when I do not find one of them useful or disagree with how something is done (or why in the hell Orks are PCs) I still am able to say to myself "self, someone else wants these rules, likes these rules and these rules are thought out, playtested by fellas I know are competent and written by talented individuals, they just ain me cup a tea!"

And I want you to be part of this community, hell you are one of our leaders on this set of forums, but really, do you think waving around your writer flag and I cannot talk about it, is the only contribution you can make? Ive seen some amazing posts and ideas and comments from you and millandson. ANd others. And its not like Im saying "you can tbe here because you have knowledge you cant share" Im more saying "why are you telling us that you know stuff you cant share? Do we need to now that? Does it help us at all to go, oh well we dont know the anser, but he does, but he cant tell us?!"

And its not like my statement should stop you. After all, its only something I said I wish was in the NDA. Hell I wish I had your job so I would have a NDA so I could bite my tongue and not say anything but sit in my office and cackle at the conjecture and speculation.

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To be fair Peacekeeper, I've not said anything like that in a while. Also, oddly, because I get to see stuff in advance, people ask me if it's good or not. I've generally been pretty honest with my responses to those questions, as much as I can, such as saying that Blood of Martyrs actually made playing Puritan characters fun for me, when I'm generally a solid Radical.

I'm not going to shut up or not post just because I'm a playtester, and I'm not going to not give any info I can that's not covered by NDAs (which are generally my opinions of a book) just because some people don't like it, otherwise that's a whole section of the community you have decided I can't be a part of. I'm already removed from most of the speculation threads (mainly because I know what's in the books a fair few months before they are released, so I can't really speculate on it), which I'm actually a little sad about, so... sorry, but as long as people keep asking me questions that often involve my playtester nature, I'm gonna keep on giving answers. If you don't like reading it, you don't have to. I'm certainly not making you.

@Sister Cat: Cheers for that happy.gif I only do what I do for the community. If it wasn't for the community, I wouldn't be a playtester (pretty much true, I wouldn't have had anything to do with Ross and Sam if it weren't for the popularity of Dark Reign and therefore getting the chance to interview them). All I want to do is try to make the books I get to mess around with as good for you guys as possible. This is why I answer any questions the NDA doesn't cover too, because it helps you guys out. As long as what I do means that one single person likes a book more than they would have done otherwise, I've done something constructive for the community.

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With regards to the side topic: NDAs regarding intellectual property are to prevent unscrupolus individuals from hypothetically taking unpublished materials and publishing an "unrelated" product for their own profit.  In short, they'd kept underwraps for the same reason why publishers get pissed when you download a PDF of a rulebook without paying for it; you're stealing the culmination of countless man-hours spent writing, drawing, balancing, and ultimately putting together.  At least that's my impression of the matter.

To the OP:  I was asking myself a similar question, I wasn't sure if it was mentioned already or not.  Personally I'm more interested in the possible Administratium/Cult Mechanicus book (if we have clerics/sisters, scum/arbites, and Guardsmen, then a book covering scholars and/or tech-priests has to be somewhere in the mix.)  But that is a good question, as it would mean the career book series may have material that could also be of use to Rogue Traders and their retinue.

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from france

 

for once i agree with peackeeper. if you are a playtester i am happy for you  but don't tell us you are. because you hold information and bring frustration. if y ou have to anounce it in every post share information.

 

N0-1_H3r3  almost never sayt that is one before but after to justify his choice. on top of that he created partof into the storm.  i can't remenber in wich post i already politely said that this attitude " i am a playtester" bother me.

i really must apreciate no-1_h3r3 for his contributions and modesty. i expect the same modesty from other playtester.i may not apreciate some people here but i don't wish to star a flame war. i just wish to express my feeling

ah for the comissar i think it is annouced in a other book. i personnaly dislike ascension half of it doesnt corresponds to my attends and the rest seem incomplete.

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I'm sorry if you don't appreciate my contributions 8 Spider, or those of other playtesters, but many others do, and have stated such. The number of PMs I get through the FFG friend system thanking me for helping out, or for giving people what info I can about the future books, suggests to me that there are more people who appreciate it than don't. As such, until such time as FFG tell me to not do so, or it becomes clear that the majority of people dislike it, I'm going to keep on trying to keep people up to date on everything going on. As I said to Peacekeeper, if you don't like it, don't read it. If you really dislike it that much, just ignore me.

Sorry, but that's the way it is. I'm not going to change anything I'm doing purely because, since I keep solidly within my NDA (I send e-mails to Sam and Ross making sure that any stuff I say is fine), I'm perfectly entitled to, since I'm not breaking any rules.

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from france

funny thing to read, do not associate the others playstesters i didn't. i even give a what i think is a good example of playtester. did i talk about "your contribution"? no

no no read it again and read again what peacekeeper said. it is not your post by themself but the  "hey look at me i am playtester" or "sh... don't want to tal about a subject... i am playtester so i am the keeper of the truth not you"

that attitude and i wil still (or not) do not appreciate your post (sometimes i did) but at least it will be pleasant to just have you and not "you the playtester".

what was the world i used? a yes modesty

 

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the 8 spider said:

from france

funny thing to read, do not associate the others playstesters i didn't. i even give a what i think is a good example of playtester. did i talk about "your contribution"? no

no no read it again and read again what peacekeeper said. it is not your post by themself but the  "hey look at me i am playtester" or "sh... don't want to tal about a subject... i am playtester so i am the keeper of the truth not you"

that attitude and i wil still (or not) do not appreciate your post (sometimes i did) but at least it will be pleasant to just have you and not "you the playtester".

what was the world i used? a yes modesty

 

Its not modesty. Its not even totally bad. Its just kind of annoying and what not.

I would like to go on record (again) and state that I appreciate everything all the playtesters and contributors do for the game and the forums and the community.

And I woudl rather you continue doing what you do then to have you think I dont appreciate your efforts.

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andrewm9 said:

Funny how this became a thread about playtesters. Thats not remotely what I was looking for. Not trying to police it or anything but its amusing.

Aye, it's funny indeed. Still, the funniest such thread was over at rpg.net - the fella was interested in how Dark Heresy, Rogue Trader and Deathwatch would scale against one another XP wise, and the thread turned into a gigantic flame war with 170+ post on....you guessed it....female space marines! gran_risa.gif

Although my personal favorite still is and continues to be the legendary "When will the boat turn into a truck?" over at Deathwatch. Best-thread-title-ever!happy.gif

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from france

all right i make amend peacekeper said it better than i do.

Its not modesty. Its not even totally bad. Its just kind of annoying and what not.

I would like to go on record (again) and state that I appreciate everything all the playtesters and contributors do for the game and the forums and the community.

And I woudl rather you continue doing what you do then to have you think I dont appreciate your efforts.

and no this it not a flame war at least not for me.

and the thread turned into a gigantic flame war hum i understand that in playtesting ( you said it enough that we can't forget it.) it was told that it can't be reover. homwever this nis not playtesting and we our alowed more freedom than in playstesting.

for memory this what i wrote in another topic "lure of the expanse question"

 

oh this is not a personal attack, we rarely agreed on anything but we have been cordial enough i think. it s just that i prefer your opinion as man/player rather than playstester. i hope there is no misunderstanding here.

as you can see it wasn't a flame war back then and again it is not one for me

 

i do reconize that i contributed to change the subect of the topic so i appologize.

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