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Cubano

Encounters that allow to close gates.

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Hello.

I have a question about encounters both Arkham and Other World that allow to close gates.

On some of the there is written something like 'close the gate, do not clame it as trophy, do not seal the gate location' but some of them just don't have anything like it written just 'close an open gate' or 'return to Arkham and close the gate you went through'. Questions are:

1. Can I spend clue tokens to seal the gate location?

2. Can I use elder sign to seal the location?

3. Can I claim the gate as trophy?

It is hard to be very precise to a specyfic card as the Other Worlds encounter don't have names, but there is a blue one from base version of Arkham that addresses Abyss and Yuggoth. The actual effect I'm asking about is to the Other actually. It asks about Speed check and then states 'you automatically close the gate you entered through'.

Thanks for your opinion on the matter.

 

 

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It's a foggy landscape the one you ventured in. In my understanding of the game, in most of the cases the answer should be "yes you can keep the gate trophy, but no, you may not seal the game, unless the card instructs you to do so". This can be an unfair policy, but at least it should be clear enough to avoid troubles of any kind.

But really, it's just the way I play; if I've understand correctly what in other threads is said, there is no official answer to cover all cases.

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Joseph_Lavode said:

My group play that if a gate is closed due to any sort of encounter it can't be sealed unless the encounter card specifically states that it can be sealed.

Seconded.  It's just the easiest way to end any questions relating to this open mystery.  For now.

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since some cards state that "you cannot seal it" that implies, you CAN seal it in all other cases. that is how we play it. "close a gate" is defined in the rule book. it means you take the trophy, monsters are removed and you can seal it.

if you don't get the trophy, you cannot seal it and no monsters are removed. the gate hasn't been closed properly, it just vanished.

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I think the "close gate: encounters simply let you bypass the skill check. So if you recieve an OW encounter that says something like: You may return to Arkham, and the gate behind you closes(I don't remember the proper wording), then it simply means that you don't make the Fight/Lore check to close it. But since you've returned from an Other World and gotten the explored marker, then I think  you can seal the gate if able. (unless the card specifically says you cannot seal).

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zealot12 said:

I think the "close gate: encounters simply let you bypass the skill check. So if you recieve an OW encounter that says something like: You may return to Arkham, and the gate behind you closes(I don't remember the proper wording), then it simply means that you don't make the Fight/Lore check to close it. But since you've returned from an Other World and gotten the explored marker, then I think  you can seal the gate if able. (unless the card specifically says you cannot seal).

There's only one card I can recall, and it's this one:

Gate2.png

And it was ruled that you cannot seal the gate. Note that even the wording makes it look like you closed the gate.

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Wasn't this same encounter replicated in any of the other gate cards? Because I recall stumbling upon it multiple times

Hmm, I suppose you can reason that since clues represent investigators' lore regarding the Ancient One and the nature of the mythos, only when you succeed at a skill check for closing a gate(or told by the encounter card that you succeeded) can you seal. Because merely having  witnessed the gate closing behind you doesn't give you any insight into the nature of this phenomenon.

But the wording is misleading and ambigious  in the example above.First it says that the portal closes and then it proceeds with  "you close the gate".The former is a thematic device, the latter is a game mechanics device, and  it  is unclear how the two are related since it doesn't really specify what caused the portal to close.

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there are a few Arkham encounters that let you close gates. i remember one from KH expansion that lets you move an elder sign and close a gate if you move it to a gate location, but there is others. probably in the science building and silver twilight lodge encounters.

i am surprised that the shown card does not allow to seal the gate, especially if you succeed the speed check. where has this been ruled? do you get the gate trophy? (as i have written this is for me the important fact that tells me if i have closed a gate with all consequences, or if it has just closed without any contribution of the investigator)

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Looking at the card shown, I would say that the player closes the gate, so gets the card. It does not exclude sealing the gate, so that would also be allowable, as there exists cards which do prohibit the sealing of the gate. Logic, ain't it fun?

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Sure, logic is great. But when the designer of the game tells you that you can't seal the gate when you get that encounter, then logic has to be discarded, or has to be applied from a different angle.

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Hello.

Probably the idea behind it is that although the investigators closes the gate, as it is described on the encounter card, it (the closing of  the gate) remains an encounter card effect in the end rather then the typical attempt to close a gate. And I learned through different discussions on this board that in general encounter cards closing gates don't allow to seal a gate. 

Pg 17, right column, paragraph 4 is crystal clear on this: The investigator may only close the gate during an Arkham encounter in Phase III, and he needs to have the explored-marker on this specific gate. And on pg 18, left column, paragraph 1, within the context on closing gates, the sealing of gates is described. If, in other words, a character closes a gate by whatever means without having the explored-marker for the gate, he won't be allowed to seal it - unless a specific card overrules this general rule. 

Just a random 2c-comment from my side. 

Ia! Ia! 

Mad

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I don't know if that's enough to make a general conclusion from, but that's how I've been playing it. You may only seal when you pass the check to close the gate you're on (with an explored token) unless you're told you can seal. However, if you're told that YOU'RE the one who closed it, you get to keep the trophy.

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if the rules say you can only close a gate during the arkham encounter phase, that indeed solves this issue. you get gate cards during the other worlds encounter phase, and you can never close gates in that phase. of course it still leaves the question open for some of the encounter cards that lets you close gates.

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Here are the two cards in question.

The Science building card could possibly allow you to close multiple gates (if you are lucky) so that's probably why you can't keep the trophy.

ST (inner Sanctum) doesn't seem to have that restriction

MiskatonicU7.pngFrenchHill7.png

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The encounters that let you close gates anywhere probably don't yield you gate trophies. I think you can only claim gates as trophies when you're physically at the gate's location, which means that you probably can't seal such gates either, because sealing requires you to place an elder sign on the location and you can't just , uhmm,paint it from afar.Just my opinion.

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the SB encounter says "the gate is closed" while the STL encounter says "you close". therefore i would use all rules for closing gates with the STL encounter, while in the SB encounter simply removes them.

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letsdance said:

if the rules say you can only close a gate during the arkham encounter phase, that indeed solves this issue. you get gate cards during the other worlds encounter phase, and you can never close gates in that phase. of course it still leaves the question open for some of the encounter cards that lets you close gates.

Hello.

Just to prevent misunderstandings: 

My posting referred to the connection between closing and sealing gates. 

In general I consider any encounter card (Arkham or Other World) as special rule overruling the general rule. That's why it is possible to close a gate during Phase IV - with the help of an encounter card. 

The rules about sealing gates are part of the general rule on closing gates (AH Rule Book pg. 17f). And here closing a gate is based on the exploration of a gate; and since sealing is directly connected with the closing of an explored gate, sealing itself might be connected to this exploration as well.

Closing gates with the help of any encounter card helps an investigator to close a gate without properly exploring the gate and its other world; therefore it could be valid to argue that sealing a gate under these conditions simply is not possible. 

In contrary to this I see and stumbled over the dilemma that the descriptions on encounter cards vary. And therefore it may be valid as well to allow someone to close and seal a gate, if the encounter card describes that the investigator closes the gate. The other version would be that an encounter card speaks of a gate closing itself without mentioning the investigator, thus the investigator would not be allowed to seal the gate, because he himself/ she herself did not close the gate. 

Those considerations might be the basis for handling trophies as well. 

To be perfectly honest: Looking at the rules and the rulings (i.e. the different approaches to handle rules) I think it really depends on the way "people" like to play the game; so while the gamers A might stick with the literal meaning of encounter cards, the same situation might be played differently by the gamers B sticking to the basic concepts of the rules and treating cards with only similar texts absolutely equally. Do you three-in-one or one-for-all-three proto-FAQs-guys have thought about this dilemma as well? 

Ia! Ia! 

Mad

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