Archmilitant - Weapon class question

[Radomo 0]

 The Archmilitant's class skill gives a bonus to one specific weapon 'class.'  My question is, how broad is class?  I didn't see this term defined anywhere.  Other places where weapon proficiency is described they use 'group' and not 'class.'  

 I checked the errata, but it's not listed there either.

Is 'class' in this sense Las, Bolt, or Chain?  Basic, Pistol, or Sword?  Basic(Bolt) or Pistol(Melta)?

[MKX 248]

In the Armoury section page 114 it details what a 'Class' of weapon is-

Exotic, Melee, Thrown, Pistol, Basic and Heavy

So if you're specialised in pistols, its every kind of pistol.

[Kalec Fash 0]

MKX is correct.

I would like to add that, through much experience as a player and as a GM, Exotic is a very poor choice of class for an Arch-Militant. The class is far too broad, and the chances to take the training traits far too few.

There are a number of very simple houserules to make exotic weapons work for an arch militant.

My preferred change is to have the AM choose exotic basic, exotic heavy, exotic pistol, or exotic melee weapons, and allow exotic weapons training to be taken once at each rank in addition to what is normally available. This helps limit the scope of the AMs weapon specialization to something more sensible, while making everything within that scope more usable.

As an aside, Bolt and Laz and SP and so on are categories. It doesn't come up very often outside of weapon attachments.

[Bilateralrope 144]

What about throwing all the exotic weapons into whichever other group they fit with ?

An exotic pistol does share similarities with other pistols. Same for the other groups.

[Kalec Fash 0]

Bilateralrope said:

What about throwing all the exotic weapons into whichever other group they fit with ?

An exotic pistol does share similarities with other pistols. Same for the other groups.

Another option. It is one of the most elegant and unobtrusive changes, but for game-balance reasons I would not recommend it, though this experience does not involve anything from Into the Storm, and does include quite a few homebrewed pieces of gear. It is worth experimenting with, and is an option I intend to reevaluate.

[Graspar 1]

Why do you say it's not recommended for game balance reasons?

[SmokedHalibut 1]

Graspar said:

Why do you say it's not recommended for game balance reasons?

 

Because the exotic weapons are all a) completely and utterly different from each other and b) have exotic capabalities/are very powerful/extremely rare. Not only does it make no sense that knowing how to use a Harlequins Kiss would help you use a ummm <exotic weapon here> but it'd be grossly overpowered. Pistol works as a class because most pistols operate in very similar ways, point, shoot, reload, nothing particularly complex about them.

[Graspar 1]

Because the exotic weapons are all a) completely and utterly different from each other and b) have exotic capabalities/are very powerful/extremely rare. Not only does it make no sense that knowing how to use a Harlequins Kiss would help you use a ummm <exotic weapon here> but it'd be grossly overpowered.

Nothing in that sentance touches on the suggestion that was made (I.e. basic weapon mastery includes exotic basic weapons) and nothing but the last four words adress game balance. And "It'd be grossly overpowered" is just a statement that it would be, not the why I asked for.

Pistol works as a class because most pistols operate in very similar ways, point, shoot, reload, nothing particularly complex about them. 

Right, and a dartcaster, ork slugga or needle pistol works the same way. Also, not about balance.

[Kalec Fash 0]

Graspar said:

Why do you say it's not recommended for game balance reasons?

Because it gives Arch-Militants a boost they really don't need.

Since exotic pistols were brought up, lets look at those. There are a few oddballs that you won't want for a typical firefight, and there are the really powerful ones like the shuriken pistol that you can't afford to wave around just anywhere. Regular pistols have fewer of the fancy, strange abilities but are still quite powerful and (most) will not draw the wrong sort of attention. Extending weapon specialization removes the need to choose which to specialize with.

[SilverAlen 0]

It doesn't make alot of sense for a person to say get a bonus to two unconnected things, a choppa and a dartcaster. It makes alot more sense for the choppa to be included as a melee weapon, dartcaster as a pistol. Also, look at the exoctic weapon table. The table has a listing for class, basic/pistol/heavy, so an argument can be made that they count as either.

[riplikash 157]

Not that I agree with it, but the idea behind the "exotic weapons proficiency" is that the character has experience handling strange and esoteric devices.

Remember, this game isn't as granular as DH, and you see that with the weapon proficiencies. It is more "cinimatic", "epic", and less nitty gritty. So this guy is the heavy weapons guy, he can use all big guns (even though missile launchers are TOTALLY different than heavy bolters in use and operation). That girl isn't trained in bigger guns, but can use pistols. Worf over there is known as a melee figther and can therefore fight with ANY melee weapon with equal proficiency (even though swords, staffs, and punch daggers would take totally different kinds of training).

So exotic weapon proficiencies just mean "this character is known for using (or being able to figure out) exotic alien weaponry".

As for why they aren't just lumped in? Because in 40k using alien weaponry is a rare talent, a defining characteristic. For the most part everyone uses bolter/las/stubber based weapons, but that guy, THAT GUY, you don't know WHAT he is going to pull out. It isn't just another pistol, it is an esoteric piece of equipment build using an alien paradigm that happans to LOOK like a pistol, and individuals who can use them are rare.

 

 

 

[SilverAlen 0]

Good point, but  I think that we can agree that most rifles shotguns and assult rifles are similar enough to be covered by a single prof. As are pistols. Heavy weapons aren't, but they are similar enough that someone can sepcialize in all sorts of large bulky weaponry. This makes sense, but to me the similarities between an agonizer and graviton gun are non existant, as are the similarities between a pulse rifle and an ork choppa. They are too dismilar to ever recieve a group bonus, and until this book exotic was simply a catch all for items to different to be anything else. 

Also it isn't very good for a player to get bonus to all exotic weapons from a balance perspective. Unlike the archtypes above, the exotic user would have bonuses to some of the most powerful weapons of every class. He would get a bonus with  Harlequin's kiss as well as a ork shoota, pulse pistol, and razorweb launcher. With the new xenographer advance from into the storm, an archmilitant could have up to 6 exotic weapon profs. Someone sepcializing in exotic weapons will have a fairly significant advantage over most others, because they will have access to large array of very powerful items of every class, for which they acquire a bonus.

.

[Zereth 0]

Actually you don't seem to have Heavy Weapon Training (Universal) available in Rogue Trader, unlike Pistol and Basic.

[Cyric313 0]

Exotic weapons are the same, you choose to specialize in One Exotic Weapon not all of them like Pistols and basic weapon group.