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Macharias the Mendicant

Moritat Assassin and Power Weapons

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Seeing as the Moritat believe in the purity of the blade and choose to spill the blood of their enemies when they fight,would you consider Power Weapons (swords, specifically in this case) to count as weapons which the Moritat Assassin would avoid or would you consider them? As per the Bloody Edge restriction, a WP test at -20 must be made to use "forbidden' weapons unless it is plain that their "regular" attacks are ineffective.

So far, we'd assumed that most weapons which were bladed and had damage type of Rending would gain the tearing quality as per The Bloody Edge and would therefore be okay to use. In the case of Power Swords we're not sure. I'm inclined to think a Moritat can use a Power Sword no problem and benefit from their Bloody Edge power with it (and not have to roll WP) but I also feel like, in the spirit of the purity of the cult, such weapons might be eschewed in favour of good ol' steel (or Lathe weapons :) and may in fact be viewed as weapons of last resort. (Perhaps those who own Power Swords choose to fight with them "switched off" and then only activate the field if their attacks are otherwise ineffective.)

Thoughts?

(That just made me think about the best sword ever: a Lathe Blade converted into a Power Sword... My assassin now has a new goal in life - get chummy with the tech priest and get one of these!!!)

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The Moritat abilities/beliefs are dependant on edged weapons and Power "Blades" are just that, despite the fact it deals energy damage.

I see no problems in them benefiting from using power weapons (unless its a power fist or some such thing).

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Macharias the Mendicant said:

Seeing as the Moritat believe in the purity of the blade and choose to spill the blood of their enemies when they fight,would you consider Power Weapons (swords, specifically in this case) to count as weapons which the Moritat Assassin would avoid or would you consider them? As per the Bloody Edge restriction, a WP test at -20 must be made to use "forbidden' weapons unless it is plain that their "regular" attacks are ineffective.

So far, we'd assumed that most weapons which were bladed and had damage type of Rending would gain the tearing quality as per The Bloody Edge and would therefore be okay to use. In the case of Power Swords we're not sure. I'm inclined to think a Moritat can use a Power Sword no problem and benefit from their Bloody Edge power with it (and not have to roll WP) but I also feel like, in the spirit of the purity of the cult, such weapons might be eschewed in favour of good ol' steel (or Lathe weapons :) and may in fact be viewed as weapons of last resort. (Perhaps those who own Power Swords choose to fight with them "switched off" and then only activate the field if their attacks are otherwise ineffective.)

Thoughts?

(That just made me think about the best sword ever: a Lathe Blade converted into a Power Sword... My assassin now has a new goal in life - get chummy with the tech priest and get one of these!!!)

Macharias the Mendicant said:

(That just made me think about the best sword ever: a Lathe Blade converted into a Power Sword... My assassin now has a new goal in life - get chummy with the tech priest and get one of these!!!)

I'd assume that, like the mono upgrade (see the errata), the Lathe Blade upgrade only has an effect when the power field is switched off.

 

I wouldn't allow a Moritat to use a power sword without the WP test for three reasons:

 - The damage from a power weapon comes mainly from the power field, not from having a sharp edge to the blade. Meaning I don't see it counting as a weapon with an edge.

 - If someone is going Moritat, they are probably going to be a melee focused character. So the penalties to ranged combat won't really hurt them enough to make up for them getting tearing and access to The Reaping (pg 75).

 - The Reaping requires the character to be using a  "sword or similarly edged weapon",  so I'd expect it to be restricted to the same melee weapons as The Bloody Edge. Allowing a character to perform it with a tearing power sword looks very overpowered.

 

So a lathe weapon is the best melee weapon that I will let a Moritat use without penalty.

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Macharias the Mendicant said:

 

Seeing as the Moritat believe in the purity of the blade and choose to spill the blood of their enemies when they fight,would you consider Power Weapons (swords, specifically in this case) to count as weapons which the Moritat Assassin would avoid or would you consider them? As per the Bloody Edge restriction, a WP test at -20 must be made to use "forbidden' weapons unless it is plain that their "regular" attacks are ineffective.

So far, we'd assumed that most weapons which were bladed and had damage type of Rending would gain the tearing quality as per The Bloody Edge and would therefore be okay to use. In the case of Power Swords we're not sure. I'm inclined to think a Moritat can use a Power Sword no problem and benefit from their Bloody Edge power with it (and not have to roll WP) but I also feel like, in the spirit of the purity of the cult, such weapons might be eschewed in favour of good ol' steel (or Lathe weapons :) and may in fact be viewed as weapons of last resort. (Perhaps those who own Power Swords choose to fight with them "switched off" and then only activate the field if their attacks are otherwise ineffective.)

Thoughts?

(That just made me think about the best sword ever: a Lathe Blade converted into a Power Sword... My assassin now has a new goal in life - get chummy with the tech priest and get one of these!!!)

 

 

This question was debated to high heaven and was on the verge of violence in several instances until someone from FFG was consulted. The final ruling was that while Moritat could indeed use Power Weapons (with a power field actively on) without having to make the Willpower test, they do not get the benefit of Tearing while the power field was active. I don't remember the full reasoning behind it, so if I find the original thread, I'll link it.

-Kirov

Addendum: found the relevant thread here. Look for the replies by FFG_Sam_Stewart

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Not only did Sam pipe up to say that but it's my favoured approach and it's the fairest.

It looks like a sword so you can use it but it's not actually cutting anymore so you're supior skill at cutting things doesn't apply.

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Thanks for the info, guys!!!

I completely agree with everything: it makes 100% sense and is the perfect compromise between the realities of acolytes needing to kill things which are hard to kill and the spiritof the Moritat creed.

So, now I guess I'll be in the market for a set of Sacred Lathe blades. I knew all the shmoozing with the Ecclesiarchy, killing their traitors and Heretics would pay off at some point! lol!

(Any power weapon that comes my way will be a "desperation" weapon for when when nothing else works... I like it!)

Again: thanks everyone!

 

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I honestly would have no problem with a Moritat character using a powersword and their "Reaping" ability.   This is an experienced character that specializes in melee to the point of disdaining firearms completely.  In a game where full auto and sniping are INCREDIBLY deadly and at great distances I just fail to see the balance issue.  Likewise, by the time a Moritat gains "the Reaping" you will probably have a few characters toting around boltguns, autoguns loaded with Manstopper ammo and making aimed shots with hunting rifles/longlas (be sure to look at "Accurate" weapon quality in the eratta).   Why would I further penalize the character who puts in the extra effort to close to 1m range before they unleash a brutal hit?  It is not like a Moritat is going to dominate ranged combat with their archery and dagger-throwing...  Give them a break! 

Also of no insignificant note:  The Death Cultist ascended career package comes with a powersword!

Given the logic behind the "powerfields are not realy blades" mentality are we next going to argue that Blademaster does not apply to a powersword? Or perhaps a powerblade?

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ZillaPrime said:

I honestly would have no problem with a Moritat character using a powersword and their "Reaping" ability.   This is an experienced character that specializes in melee to the point of disdaining firearms completely.  In a game where full auto and sniping are INCREDIBLY deadly and at great distances I just fail to see the balance issue.  Likewise, by the time a Moritat gains "the Reaping" you will probably have a few characters toting around boltguns, autoguns loaded with Manstopper ammo and making aimed shots with hunting rifles/longlas (be sure to look at "Accurate" weapon quality in the eratta).   Why would I further penalize the character who puts in the extra effort to close to 1m range before they unleash a brutal hit?  It is not like a Moritat is going to dominate ranged combat with their archery and dagger-throwing...  Give them a break! 

Also of no insignificant note:  The Death Cultist ascended career package comes with a powersword!

Given the logic behind the "powerfields are not realy blades" mentality are we next going to argue that Blademaster does not apply to a powersword? Or perhaps a powerblade?

I confess that I am not really familiar with the materials for ascended acolytes (so I would not have known of a Death Cultist with a powersword), but your point is certainly well taken. As for the arhry: a composite bow (accurate) with some mono-arrows has actually worked out pretty well for me thus far... though I do generally prefer the toe to toe. I also agree with you that I see no inherent balance isues with allowing Moritat to combine power weapons with their Reaping/Tearing ability. As you pointed out, they have paid the cost of specialisation by distaining most missile weapons (and the full-auto that goes with them) so it only makes sense that they should be the masters of bladed melee combat.

I'm actually quite sure that my GM would have no problem with me applying The Reaping to power weapons. And, if a character in my game wanted to make a Moritat and get their hands on Chain or Power weapons, I certainly would have no problems with it (in fat, ower weapons make more sense to my own character's internal logic than the more "messy" chain weapons...).

I suppose I asked the question because I was interested in knowing:

  • a) If there was an "official" ruling on that issue, and
  • b) What others outside of my playing group thought of it.

Personally, I have chosen to limit my reliance on power weapons primarily as a matter of colour and role-playing, in much the same way as I was allowed to swap out some of my starting weapons talents to bring them more in line with someone from a "feudal" world. I imagine my "swordsman" as something of a 16th-17th century Renaissance swordsman (Sword and Dagger, Dagger and cloak, à la http://mac9.ucc.nau.edu/manuscripts/CapoFerro-GRAUF.pdf, or http://www.thearma.org/Manuals/NewManuals/CapoFerro/capoferro.htm), so instead of Basic SP weapons and such, I replaced everything with Primitive instead. (so Primitive Pistols and Primitive Basic to represent my upbrining - I would not have used more modern weapons.)

In that same vein, I have chosen to remain as "technologically pure" as possible (for the time being restricting myself to Mono-weapons) and am armed with a best quality sword and a custom best quality parrying dagger. It is, of course, entirley possible that as we encouter bigger and bigger dangers that I may move to power weapons but I personally like the idea of trying to hold back on that as long as possible. And if/when I finally do upgrade to power weapons, I would like to think that my character would try to limit his reliance on that technology and only use it as a last resolt when it is clear that a naked blade is not up to the task at hand. And, when that does happen, I would like to think that I would still get the benefits of The Bloody Edge applied to those attacks. (I think my character's bias is bleeding into my own and making me see such weapons as distateful.! happy.gif)

Whatever the case, I certainly wouldn't call for a WP test to wield a power blade (which was, I guess, intended to be the main point of my question). I simply thought the proposed solution was an elegant compromise (and I AM a sucker for a good compromise! lol!)

NB: For those interested in the parrying dagger I designed, here's a link to my post about it in the House Rules forum: http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_foros_discusion.asp?efid=100&efcid=3&efidt=375342

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