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Staton

I'm quitting A Game of Thrones LCG

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Staton said:

 Until Fear of Winter is Banned or there is an Eratta.

Unless you mean additional errata, I guess I have the honor of playing your last two AGoT games, lol.  In both of which I used Fear of Winter preocupado.gif

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 Since Lannister prove to be on the top also this year I don't know why they should bann more fear of winter... since it is one of the only reliable army against shadow decks... When I face a shadow deck I always think city plots are too strongs... when I face a Viper deck I think viper is too strong... actually... I hope "all the world that cospire against me" would be banned :-)

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Look, I feel your frustration, but quitting over a single card? Really? That's not a bold statement about the power of the card - it's giving up.

Start a "nerfbrokenwinterplot" campaign, ban it locally, or something more proactive, but don't give up on an entire game that you enjoy because of a single card.

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 ~Maybe one of the champions should design an anti-Fear of Winter plot card:

Love of Summer 2-4-2

Cannot be cancelled.

When revealed, all players must look at their plot cards and remove any copy of Fear of Winter from the game.

Players may search for any card in their House deck, discard pile, and dead pile and play it as if it were in hand.

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Unfortunately, I can't jump on this bandwagon.  There are a lot of plots out there that are hard to deal with like Rise of the Kraken or Blockade.  Outfox was a bear to deal with as well, especially for those of us not fortunate enough to have one.  We don't have to worry about that now in the LCG environment because the same card pool is open to everyone.  Now its a matter of outfoxing your opponent. 

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JestorCT said:

Aren't there cards that allow you to force your opponent to change his plot?

 

Force opponents to change plots? I think there are only 2 (in LCG). A "Baratheon only" event and a Baratheon character.

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JerusalemJones said:

I run the Defenders Margery primarily as a counter against Fear of Winter.

 

I never understood this. If they're running their deck properly, they will have undoubtedly thrown down two or more epic events. As such, they will just throw down Rule by Decree and rip off almost your entire hand.

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 OK People this is what to do with the "epic event" fear of winter uncertainty and doubt deck.

 

1. As the most common form of this is the Siege deck, run Uneasy Peace as your first Plot IF they epic events. Also with Dobbler's new agenda coming out a first turn valar... is not a bad idea, (provided you have some westeros bleeds or second reset).

2. If you suspect a blockade as turn 2 then uneasy peace or rains of autumn. 

3. Best way to deal with Rule By Decree is to RBD them back. 

Martell and Bara can easily counter this bull. Since you know the train is coming, blow up the **** track, force them to have to wade through the bloody passengers.  Punish them, use plot manipulation and challenge screw to make them think that the deck was the dumbest idea, and hey you get force points if you get them to post in the boards saying "I'm quitting A Game of Thrones LCG unless they ban Margery!"

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 In fact I challenge anyone who can make a fear of winter siege deck that can consistently beat my treaty deck.

So far none have beaten it, not at nyc, and heck I wish Gencon had more of them I might have actually made the top 8. 

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 Hmm.... The soon to be reprinted Narrow Escape will make a first turn Valar against Seige decks an extremely hard play. Especially if you're using Greg's agenda. Do you lose your entire opening hand to make sure their characters stay dead? What do you have left in play at that point since you have nothing to play?

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bloodycelt said:

 

 In fact I challenge anyone who can make a fear of winter siege deck that can consistently beat my treaty deck.

So far none have beaten it, not at nyc, and heck I wish Gencon had more of them I might have actually made the top 8. 

 

 

If I didn't make my deck 30 minutes before leaving for NYC, I would have won against your Bara/Martell Treaty deck (and consequently have made the cut) with Make An Example.  I was going first with 5 Power and had Brienne to stop any silly cancels.  Instead, I had in hand the useless card I used to replace Make an Example with, as I didn't have the time to find them enfadado.gif

Lesson:  Don't make decks the morning of a tourney; especially half-an-hour before leaving for it, lol.

Would my deck consistently (2/3 of the time?) beat yours?  Not sure, but 10 power isn't much when you can grab 5 or 6 power in one go.

I suspect longclaw's Direwolf Seige deck would do well against it.  It has enough Direwolf search and dupes to get Shaggydog, Greywind, and Nymeria out fairly quickly.

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WolfgangSenff said:

JerusalemJones said:

 

I run the Defenders Margery primarily as a counter against Fear of Winter.

 

 

 

I never understood this. If they're running their deck properly, they will have undoubtedly thrown down two or more epic events. As such, they will just throw down Rule by Decree and rip off almost your entire hand.

They're going to do it anyway next round, so why not get it over with and potentially be able to mitigate the 2-claim challenges with more characters or some events?

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Yeah - by the time Margaery is on the board its Turn 1 Marshalling and you enough crads to get down to four in hand - mitigates the RBD ripping up your hand.

I agree with bloodycelt - Baratheon and Martell can play out fomr under this Plot and it is a nice check to Lannister hand advantage.

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Stag Lord said:

Yeah - by the time Margaery is on the board its Turn 1 Marshalling and you enough crads to get down to four in hand - mitigates the RBD ripping up your hand.

I agree with bloodycelt - Baratheon and Martell can play out fomr under this Plot and it is a nice check to Lannister hand advantage.

 

Umm, no. Since FoW is out, you do *not* get down far enough to get down to 4 cards in hand. Hence, you lose probably at least 3 cards.

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Well the idea is if you use Margery on turn 1, then you change the plot... you can then play more cards.

Also note: the reason FoW is so "devestating" is the turn 1 military claim 2 with possible epic military challenges that cause you to lose your board. Then a blockade next round limits your recovery, followed by a RBD to take out a hand so you have a limit on recovering then.

So 1. Power of Blood, Uneasy Peace, Icon Manipulation, Scheming, Bones of a Child can all mitigate the turn 1 board wipe. (Valar can also do this... if you are so inclined.) Also the new Beric Dondarion can mitigate this. And of course plot manipulation.

2. Once that is mitigated... the rest sort of falls apart since you still have a board. This is why these decks fall apart, if they can't get dominance the first turn... they are playing catch-up, as long as you give them no quarter you now have the advantage since two of their plots become a liability.

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WolfgangSenff said:

 

Umm, no. Since FoW is out, you do *not* get down far enough to get down to 4 cards in hand. Hence, you lose probably at least 3 cards.

 

 

To clarify what I think Wolfgang is trying to reiterate: Your opponent will always have one less card than you do due to playing a card (i.e. Epic Battle) prior to revealing Fear of Winter first round.  Whether you have Margaery on the flop, play her in Marshalling, or fetch her with Summoning Season your opponent will always have less cards than you (unless you had a pre-plot Event as well) and will hit you with Rule By Decree.  Depending which scenario you are in, you will lose anywhere between three to five cards.

Considering that Margaery is now knelt, your board position is extremely weak if you didn't get a good flop.  Your starting hand, which is extremely important for Bara, has also been shred to pieces (unless you discard a Royal Entourage or two).

Bloodycelt's Treaty deck is probably one of the best, if not the best, Treaty deck we've seen to date.  Bara/Martell seems to be the really only viable Treaty deck.  Even then, the pitfall of running a Treaty deck is too big.  Unless you are playing a field of low-skill, 10 power will be enough for at least an opponent or two to reach, whether it's in Swiss or after the cut.

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IIRC the deck did 3W 3L at Gencon, I would not insult my opponents by calling them "low skill".

Also the deck was undefeated in swiss at NYC which again none of my opponents were of "low skill" either. They did play a lot of Stark and standard Lanni kneel.

So while I know you probably did not mean it, don't insult these players.

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bloodycelt said:

So while I know you probably did not mean it, don't insult these players.

I never said you have played anyone of low-skill. Nor have I said players at GenCon, NYC, or any Regional is/was a player of low-skill.  I simply said "UNLESS you are playing a field of low-skill [players], 10 power will be enough for at least an opponent or two to reach, whether it's in Swiss or after the cut." I was trying to imply that 10 power for ANY Treaty deck is too "easy" for your opponents to achieve in a tournament setting.  So while your Bara/Martell Treaty deck is very good and probably the best Treaty deck we've seen to date, it didn't win at NYC or GenCon.  I'd imagine that your opponent only needing 10 power had something to do with that.  None of this or what I said is/was to discredit your deck or skill (I've always found you to be a strong and courteous player) or anyone else's, not the slightest bit.  My point is that IF a player wanted to win a tournament with your deck (or ANY Treaty deck for that matter), I believe it would have to be in a field of players with less skill (i.e. less efficient deck building and gameplay).  I find the 10 power drawback to be too vulnerable, and a field of the normal distribution of skill we do see at Regionals if high enough to pretty much insure that it won't win.  So if anything, I've just complimented the AGoT community lengua.gif.  Of course, all of this is MY OPINION.  If people don't want to agree with it, fine.  If they want to say why they don't agree with it, fine.  That's what these forums are for: to discuss the game.

If I offended anyone, I apologize.  The notion of anyone being insulted never crossed my mind as the intention of insulting anyone was non-existent when I made that post.  I was merely trying to discuss the merits of a Treaty deck in competitive play, not critiquing current players that play this wonderful game.

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what did I tell you about apologizing on these forums?

 

And i know exactly what wolfgang and you were saying. Do you really think a Baratheon deck can't withstand the RBD in turn 1 Marshalling? How quick are those Enoturages you chuck to RBD going to be back on the board? and how mcuh redundancy is built in to msot modern baartehon builds?

 

Playing Targ and Bara - I am really Ok with Fear in its current state. I can see where other Hosue have issues though.

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So, to be clear this is why the deck did not win NYC.

 

Ktom ran a very good Targ deck while I did not get anything good in my draw. The 5 power difference did not matter, he had board and game dominance as soon as he wiped all my characters away with hatchlings feast.

At Gencon:

Against the Lannister player, I panicked and did not mulligan when I should have flopping only Eddard. He on the other hand has 3 gold producing characters and Tywin, and dominated the game. Again the 5 power did not matter.

Against Casey, he just wore me down before I could get to 15 and controlled the game masterfully. Again I dont think the 5 power would have mattered, by the time he started having power on his house it was plot 5 or 6.

Against Staton the 5 power did matter. His deck was a bara rush deck with similar goals and methods. He won on turn 2.

If your deck is a rush deck focused on the first 2 turns, then the 5 power gap is a liability against other rush decks, however that is the reason Bara and Martell are a good match since early game reduction and draw paired with challenge control can often offset this weakness (as in the case with siege of winterfell). Also Mel can make Bara on Bara feel like a fight scene in Roman Polanski's Macbeth.

It is weak vs. Targ control, but then I don't think the agenda has any effect on that match-up.

 

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