Siege of Winterfell - Too Epic?

[Mathias Fricot 0]

First of all, I have been running this agenda and it seems to get out of hand pretty fast.

I looked in the rules for the difference between moving power from one place to another (like Eastwatch-by-the-Sea or the resolution of a power challenge) and when you claim a power (like in unopposed challenges) and thy are two different things. From what I understand you can use a basic rule of thumb that if the power is coming from another House/Character its being moved, and then its coming from the pool of power tokens on the board its being claimed. So the agenda gives two extra power each time you win a military challenge (as the attacker or the defender), and stops the one additional power you get from going unopposed on intrigue challenges and power challenges. Doesn't this seem a little overpowered? Sure, if your making three unopposed challenges a turn its the same net gain, but having it on defense seems hilarious. Especially when you use Oxcross to force people to military challenge you.

My big question is; am I using it wrong? or should it be auto-include in 90% of my Stark builds?

[XcentricX 0]

I was going to make a thread on this, but this relates to your topic as well.

Can Stark gain power for winning dominance with the "Siege of Winterfell" as well?

[ktom 598]

XcentricX said:

Can Stark gain power for winning dominance with the "Siege of Winterfell" as well?

No. You cannot get power for winning Dominace when you have the Siege of Winterfell Agenda. Neither can you get power for plots like Winter Festival or Minstrel's Muse. Or for events like Make an Example (except in Response to a military challenge). ANY new power that would go on your House card outside of the duration of a Military challenge cannot be taken.

Whether or not you put Siege of Winterfell on 90% of your Stark decks is going to depend a lot on your play style. If the only thing you want to do is concentrate on military and killing, then yeah - it needs to go on. But Stark can actually do more than "all Military, all the time." The Agenda could actually slow down a direwolf deck. It doesn't work very well in the Stark Winter Shadows build. It's not much of a help if you're trying to build a "none shall pass" defense deck.

Of course, most people concentrate on the uber-aggressive Stark military-kill build, and it is very well suited for that. But it really isn't all Stark can do.

[DreamKing 0]

with the siege, if i win a power challenge as the attacker i gain one (or more power, depending on my claim) from my opponent to my house since this is moving and not claiming, is that right?

[Rogue30 60]

Kissing_Crimson said:

with the siege, if i win a power challenge as the attacker i gain one (or more power, depending on my claim) from my opponent to my house since this is moving and not claiming, is that right?

Correct.

[mischraum.de 12]

ktom said:

 Neither can you get power for plots like Winter Festival or Minstrel's Muse. Or for events like Make an Example (except in Response to a military challenge). ANY new power that would go on your House card outside of the duration of a Military challenge cannot be taken.

 

I would think when you trigger the response of Make an Example the challenge is actually over so you couldn't use it together with the agenda.

[ktom 598]

mischraum.de said:

ktom said:

 Neither can you get power for plots like Winter Festival or Minstrel's Muse. Or for events like Make an Example (except in Response to a military challenge). ANY new power that would go on your House card outside of the duration of a Military challenge cannot be taken.

 

 

 

 I would think when you trigger the response of Make an Example the challenge is actually over so you couldn't use it together with the agenda.

No. The challenge is technically continuing through all Responses as well. Otherwise, things like Deadly or A Lannister Pays His Debts (which kill "participating" characters) would never work. Anyway, Make an Example and the Siege at Winterfell Agenda itself have the exact same Response timing. If the military challenge isn't over when the Agenda is triggered (allowing you to claim power since it is during a Military challenge), it isn't over when Make an Example is triggered, either.

[Toqtamish 3,643]

Rogue30 said:

Kissing_Crimson said:

 

with the siege, if i win a power challenge as the attacker i gain one (or more power, depending on my claim) from my opponent to my house since this is moving and not claiming, is that right?

 

 

Correct.

 

Really ? Wow totally been doing that wrong.

[Laban Shrewsbury 0]

 Would I be right in thinking that the Siege of Winterfell Response can be cancelled by something like Seasick, He Calls It Thinking, etc?

The FAQ says that "the effects of an Agenda card cannot be canceled.", but I take that to mean that you can't stop the Response being triggered rather than not being able to cancel the triggered effect, if you catch my drift.
 

[Deathjester26 5]

Laban Shrewsbury said:

 Would I be right in thinking that the Siege of Winterfell Response can be cancelled by something like Seasick, He Calls It Thinking, etc?

The FAQ says that "the effects of an Agenda card cannot be canceled.", but I take that to mean that you can't stop the Response being triggered rather than not being able to cancel the triggered effect, if you catch my drift.
 

There's no difference between "can't stop the Response" and "not being able to cancel to triggered effect".  You cannot cancel the effects of an agenda.  That includes responses.

[ktom 598]

Laban Shrewsbury said:

The FAQ says that "the effects of an Agenda card cannot be canceled.", but I take that to mean that you can't stop the Response being triggered rather than not being able to cancel the triggered effect, if you catch my drift.

This is, in fact, exactly backwards. "Canceling" something in this game means that the effect is triggered, but before it resolves, it is interrupted by something that stops it from resolving. So if something "cannot be canceled," once triggered, it cannot be interrupted and stopped from resolving. Cards like Seasick or He Calls it Thinking do exactly this; they interrupt something after it is triggered and stop it from resolving by canceling it. So no, you cannot use cards like these on Siege of Winterfell because it is an Agenda.

However, preventing something from ever being triggered in the first place is not the same as a cancel. Cancels imply an interruption by definition - and preventing the thing from triggering in the first place doesn't interrupt it so is not a cancel. A card like, say, PoS-Brienne (which says that while she is participating, opponents cannot trigger effects) does not cancel the Agenda, but would stop an opponent from using it.

[Laban Shrewsbury 0]

 Thanks for clearing that up. I knew there had to be a reason why it's specifically a Response but I'd forgotten about the lovely Brienne. Makes sense now.