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H.B.M.C.

Player dropping out - Has this ever happened to you?

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Macharias the Mendicant said:

.I used to run a Wraith: The Oblivion game

You are always having to keep an eye out for sensitive subjects when playing Wraith. I mean, ****, I love the game, but it is **** depressing sometimes (ie all the time).

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Macharias the Mendicant said:

... tell them you're sorry if you hurt them in any way... 



I'd apologise if I had done something wrong, but I haven't. And it's not me saying that, it's the rest of the group. This is, in the end, all about his personal preference vs what the rest of us were doing and, I think, him wanting to run the games (he was very quick to push everyone else around, out-of-character, that is), and while I'm not perfect (and never claimed to be), the (over)reaction to everything has just been insulting.

BYE

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From a cold point of view, it seems like your gaming group is better off without him. It's never good if someones tries to control other player/character's viewpoints or they way they should act or play. That's annoying in-game and out-game as well.

If that person has big issue giving away 'control' to the GM subsequently gets frustrated, that's ultimately his problem. If he can't handle it and writes a 7200+word essay and leaves the group without ever having brought up the subject to you personally or even in the gaming group, it's a sad thing indeed. Considering your out-game friendship, have a talk to him about it but it could be that roleplaying is just not for him. There are people out there that can't or won't wrap their head around an RPG and usuually they're more content not playing any at all.

Or I could be that he had very different exectation of the flow of the game or the way you present the 40K universe or run your gaming sessions. If he has a problem with that he should have talked to you about it at the first signs of frustration to work out a compromise, or if the differences are unsurmountable, leave the group

In the end, an RPG session is not a democracy, the GM is judge, jury and executioner and it's up to the GM fulfill that role as best and fair as possible to all players but ultimately his decision is law. Some people can't handle a situation like that and insist on being stubborn or rebellious instead of taking a decision and adapting, for sake of the game and having an enjoyable experience.

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MILLANDSON said:

 

You are always having to keep an eye out for sensitive subjects when playing Wraith. I mean, ****, I love the game, but it is **** depressing sometimes (ie all the time).

I miss the game quite a bit despite that. Or possibly because of it. It's depressing, yes, but it can actually pretty uplifting at times when fetters get resoveled. Those moments of snatched happines... A very real game in a lot of ways.  **** I miss that game! (I should go digging through some boxes... Too bad grad school starts in a few weeks... sad.gif)

 

H.B.M.C. said:

I'd apologise if I had done something wrong, but I haven't. And it's not me saying that, it's the rest of the group. This is, in the end, all about his personal preference vs what the rest of us were doing and, I think, him wanting to run the games (he was very quick to push everyone else around, out-of-character, that is), and while I'm not perfect (and never claimed to be), the (over)reaction to everything has just been insulting.

If it's for the best for your group, then I'm happy for you guys that this person's gone. Too bad they had to make a **** storm out of leaving but sounds like it's their loss. . (I never understood people who take their real-world gripes to the gaming table, or vice versa. I get little enough time to game as it is without needing to game with unpleasant people.)

All the best.

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Macharias the Mendicant said:

MILLANDSON said:

 

 

You are always having to keep an eye out for sensitive subjects when playing Wraith. I mean, ****, I love the game, but it is **** depressing sometimes (ie all the time).

 

 

I miss the game quite a bit despite that. Or possibly because of it. It's depressing, yes, but it can actually pretty uplifting at times when fetters get resoveled. Those moments of snatched happines... A very real game in a lot of ways.  **** I miss that game! (I should go digging through some boxes... Too bad grad school starts in a few weeks... sad.gif)

 

Aye, that's why I liked the game too... and same here, post-grad starts up for me again in a couple of weeks.

You should probably take a look at Giest: The Sin-Eaters by White Wolf, it's sort of the spiritual successor of Wraith in the nWoD series.

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MILLANDSON said:

 

Aye, that's why I liked the game too... and same here, post-grad starts up for me again in a couple of weeks.

You should probably take a look at Giest: The Sin-Eaters by White Wolf, it's sort of the spiritual successor of Wraith in the nWoD series.

I'll have to check it out, assuming I can make some time for ANOTHER game. Always the same problem: time! 

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Meh, I've lost players, GMs, hell I've walked out of more than one game. Just the way the world works.

The thing you've got to remember is to keep your chin up, put on that devious grin, and rebuild. So what if it all fell it apart? You have to keep trying until it works, or else all your effort has been wasted.

Also when people are angry they say stupid things. No point in holding a grudge.

However, if you want my opinion, I believe running a PnP is a very much a collaborative effort. It has to be as everyone who shows up has invested way much more time than say playing an MMO. As a GM it's up to you to be the negotiator, the guy/gal that see's the players fantasies become reality. You're the joint that connects them all together see.. At least that's the way I prefer to go about. That may be of course because of the games I run which tend to half improvisation. No point in getting attached to a work fiction, much less one as mutable as your typical campaign setting. Believe me, the more you GM the more you'll find yourself in situations where everything you've planned isn't worth jack.

Oh and by the time you're having to fight over "control" in a PnP game, I think everyone has already lost. Still makes me chuckle, fighting for control in an imaginary realm.

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 I have been running for about 20 years, and so have had occasion for players to leave, or to kick players out of a group, over creative differences - it is bound to happen eventually.  As someone else suggested, it sounds like this player was slowly nursing some ill feelings over aspects of the game he didn't like and rather than talk about them, just let them fester until he couldn't handle it any longer.  It also sounds like he may be a bit of a drama bug and love the attention a 7000+ word resignation letter would earn him.

If the other players seem to genuinely enjoy the game, then you are better off without him there to drag things down.  I have had players upset with me, or the nature of the game, do everything in their power to ruin the experience for others and can tell you it is no fun to deal with - so que sera sera.  Consider some of the things he said - because he might have had a couple legitimate complaints amidst all the vitriol - but don't fixate on it and don't let it bring your game down.  

Chalk it up to one of your first GMing war scars and bear it with some pride.  (over the years you'll get many more)

 

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Well, I am role-player and GM for 15 years now and I saw many different overreactions and strange behaviour in many teams but never heard about idea of writing an essey to GM about his mistakes. In my opinion it was something personal not binded with your campaign or your campaign was only excuse to your player for telling you something bad and personal. I don't know why 'cos i don't know your relations and life but i think you should focus on your relations out of RPG if you want to know why he did that. Maybe he is young and have problems with getting mature or maybe he has some troubles and need person he can blame for everything... Don't know, but I am sure that it was freaky and I think that your campaign is not the true problem or your friend is 13-th;>...

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Long time GMing and you are bound to get a few bumps on the road. I've seen whole campaigns (even long time ones) being thrown out just because something went a little wrong first and then things escalated beyond characters into the realm of real people. However, I strongly suggest you show the essay to the other players, discuss it and see if it raises any points your other players might be unhappy with. If the other players still feel happy with the way the campaign is going, then good going and let the whiners whine alone :D

If, on the other hand, the other players then raise some issues with your GMing style, do not dispair. Instead, be grateful they came up so you can deal with them before things spin out of hand. Life is a lesson. You learn it when you are through. ;)

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I left once a game about some small thing.

Was a fantasy game called DSA (Das Schwarze Auge), i played an Warrior Type char, an Thorwaler. It was during a night, and my char was going to take a pee.

During this we got ambushed, and i wanted to attack one of the intruders and my GM said with what, you was going to pee and your Axe is at your bedroll. I said WTF, i am a warrior (Thorwaler), and for sure i take my axe with me if i am going to pee. And for sure in the middle of the wilderness.

He said: You didnt say you take your weapon with you. I said: I didnt because you know i allways take my axe with me (and my char did). He said, but you didnt said it, and i answered, i didnt because i allways take my axe with me.. yadda yadda you get the pattern ;-)

At the end i left because i got angry. Was the last time i played DSA i think ;-)

 

Same group btw, i played since nearly 20 years (and still play).

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Bezimus Prime said:

H.B.M.C. said:

 

 Hmm... I did not expect that.

Last night, a good friend of mine and one of the players in our group wrote me a 7200 word essay explaining in great detail how he was washing his hands of all 40K related RPGs and, more to the point, how he blamed me for everything and how the manner in which I was running our campaign was 'utterly catastrophic' (his words).

Now, all of us in the group (aside from one long-time D&D vet) are new to RPG's in general, and Dark Heresy is our first RPG, so I am certainly not above reproach. To that end I went and canvassed the rest of my players this morning with a simple question:

Are you enjoying the DH campaign?

The rest of them replied quite quickly (some within minutes), all with an emphatic "yes". Some even elaborated further, stating how they liked where their characters were going, the way they've developed them from their start, and how they liked having more things to look forward to.

Now the player who has left won't be coming back - I know that none of us will be able to convince him and I'm certainly not about to waste my breath trying to make him come back - but I was interested if this has ever happened to any of you guys (40K RPG or otherwise)? And I'm not just talking about someone dropping out of a campaign - as there are many real life issues for doing so - but more about someone who not only drops out, but also burns every bridge on the way through, using his exit as a way of personally attacking the GM and putting every single thing that he didn't like on their shoulders.

I've always been about people getting out what the put into an RPG, and that seems to have worked for me the 4 other players, so is this a case of some gross error on my part that all of us (bar him) missed, or is this a case of a person coming into a game with a specific line of thinking on how the game should be played and failing to adapt when it did not meet his own sensibilities?

BYE

 

 


Hello H.B.M.C. and the Dark Heresy forums in general.


It is true that not everyone will be a fit for every group or for every campaign or for every game system. I've had players leave games I've been running or co-running for 'non-compatibility' issues in the past, and have had to ask people modify their behaviour or when that failed to no longer attend for the sake of the enjoyment of the rest of the group. It happens; you can’t be everything to everyone. As others have already discussed, getting feedback from your players is good. I especially like the suggestions to use questions that require them to give with more than one word answers. However, there are a couple of points about your situation that are a little unusual from my perspective that I haven’t seen anyone raise, so I thought I might make some comments.


Firstly, unless your friend is prone to writing verbose replies to simple situations, writing a 7200 word “I quit” letter does seem to indicate that your friend had some very strong feelings about the whole situation. As you describe him as a good friend, you might need to do some work patching the friendship up. Not to get him to come back to the game, but just to make sure a friendship that existed prior to the game isn’t destroyed by a game.
The fact that the situation managed to provoke such a strong response does merit an examination of the situation. Going from what’s you’ve told us so far, a couple of scenarios come to mind.


The first thing that I can think of that could cause a problem is the themes and plot of your game may not have sat well with your friend. The fact that you said that he doesn’t want anything to do with 40K RPGs makes me think that this could be a possibility. You may have accidently hit one or more of your friends ‘squick-buttons’ with the content of your games. If you had touched on topics like torture or abuse, you may have inadvertently triggered an unpleasant emotional response in your friend. The whole ‘grim dark’ setting of the 40K universe has some very nasty corners that you need to be careful around.


The other possibility, related to your statement that he commented on how you were running the campaign, is that there might be something in the group dynamics, either between you and the player in question, between you and all the players, or between the players. Did your friend feel there was any favouritism going on? Was he not getting along well with any of the other players? Was someone eating all his snacks before he had any (I’ve had that one happen)? Was he being talked over by others at the table?


It would be worth looking at that epic essay to see if there are any specific questions that you need to ask your other players to see check that they aren’t also having a problem with, and to see if there is anything that you think could be a useful change to how you run things. But at the end of the day, if everyone else is happy with how things are going, then you’ll just have to chalk it up to a learning experience and move on, hopefully with your friendship still intact.

 

 

 

Bezimus Prime, i completely agree with you, and also i salute your way of thinking. I must admit, i am a psychologist student in my last semester in university, and still i lost many obvservations that you pointed out. If you are not a psychologist , you missed  your calling :)

Its true, sometimes the problem is not at all the game, but the people or the subjects there. Also, the problem can be that your group likes a specific way of roleplaying, and he dont.

I can say from my experience, that sometimes one can use roleplaying for overcoming problems in real life. Most of us do in a way. In real life, we not always do corageous things, but in the game, we are heroes. some people learn about their actions in game, instead of doing it in real life, and also, roleplay sometimes is symbolic. Some people believe that , since it is a game with rules and with some measure of "reality" , it is safe , and dependable.

In my experience, i was robbed in the street at gunpoint in real life, and it was the first time it happened. I was so depressed, that nearly 2 months it took me to recover and feel safe in the streets i usually transited by foot all the time. Then i was invited by a long time group of ruleplayers to play Dungeons and Dragons 4th edition, and i was happy again.

I made a priest character, but focused in melee fight, and it was a very heroic and stuborn dwarf, completely different of all the characters i made before. It was my way of copying with the impotence of been robbed, and a way of fighting the bad in the world. It is just a example, but it can be that too.

Also , some players enjoy the full freedom of a imaginary world, some want to be railroaded to a history, with options given to them in a plate, some others want that the game is as a novel , that all "should" happen in a way, no matter the players, but the story, and still others just want to be ansitocial there. in the end depends of the kind of players, but mostly, of the sinergy of the group. If you all are happy without him, better. Better now, than a destructive player trying to punish everyone for not doing or been as he wants.

 

Also, i saw that GM that becomes players sometimes can give problems to , i had an experience also, but it is better saved for another time

Bye to all!

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Well I often do (once every 2 or 4 months) before session how are you today? how do you feel about the setting? game pace? etc.

Some of my players hate it but in general I try to keep it positive and get one bad comment and one good so I can try to improve and maximes my best sides as a DM or player.

Also Attitude and compatibility is the key.

Are you a fanatical rule lawyer who broke the immersion by being up tight? Did you break is setup etc.... I.e. Yayadada. Personally a DM's word is law until a group discussion can bring a change to it over calm comments only. We, as player respect that and as a DM I try to keep it as possible as it can be (those impossible to get to NPC for story perpose while fun may break the power trip of some players etc.).

and there is always the impossible to satisfy, in which case it's all good for you mate!

 

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Tubben said:

At the end i left because i got angry. Was the last time i played DSA i think ;-)


Yeah that's not really relevant or even similar at all.. but... uhh... thanks for sharing! aplauso.gif 

BYE

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newlamborghini said:

My close friend had a 5000 word tirade and resignation from his game simply because the player's PC wasn't successful in starting a relationshop with a female NPC!corazon_roto.gif



That's... more lame than my one (on his part). Ouch.

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Players come, players go. That's a fact of life. There's no point in trying to bring the resigning player back. If there's one thing I've learnt from my (fairly short) DM/GM experience is that when a player leaves, there's always another that takes his/her place.

I've had players leaving and new ones joining in my current DnD campaign (it's a massive campaign in three parts) such that there's no PC's left that originally started on it. One player who recently left, wrote a fairly polite PM via a forum (not this one) that he didn't want to come in anymore. At least, it wasn't 5000 words long. Back to DH/RT, I had a new player leave halfway in the first session (of a new campaign) and his first session - I am currently running Rogue Trader. My last campaign was Dark Heresy. 

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Leave halfway through a session? What happened?

And my 'That Guy', as some have started calling him now, did say that he had almost walked out during a number of sessions. This is interesting as he gave no indications of this whatsoever, and the rest of the group are considerably unimpressed by him right now, especially as he chose to tell no one but me.

BYE

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H.B.M.C. said:

Leave halfway through a session? What happened?

And my 'That Guy', as some have started calling him now, did say that he had almost walked out during a number of sessions. This is interesting as he gave no indications of this whatsoever, and the rest of the group are considerably unimpressed by him right now, especially as he chose to tell no one but me.

BYE

Nothing. The RT team, including his arch-militant PC, was enroute to pick up another arch-militant (PC). I was asking the navigator to roll for navigation tests when he (the player) just picked up his stuff and said "I'm not playing." and left the gaming table. He went over to another table where there was another RP game going on. I must admit some of the other players were a tad too noisy and I had to speak over their heads to be heard and the only exciting thing at that point was a space battle with an Eye of the Abyss inside the Warp. It wasn't very exciting, and the navigator's poor rolls kept getting them lost/thrown off-course. .

This is the first time that I have a player quit half-way through a session. But, I let it be. Fortunately, the other players in my game aren't like that. They weren't impressed with him, either. And it was quite sudden, too.

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