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darknesseternal2

mad science Explorator's crazy gun-request

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There's an Explorator in our group who wants to build a custom gun that is a twin-linked combi-plasma.  That is to say, a combi weapon of bolter and plasma that is twin linked to another combi-bolter/plasma.  Essentially resulting in a twin-linked bolter and a twin-linked plasma gun (which follows the otherwise rules for a combi portion except for being twin-linked).

 

Would you allow such a device to be built?  If so, what sort of building rules might you impose upon it?

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let him have, by all means. but remember that if the plasma ever overheats! BOOM! Go the bolter shells! i would hae it as per energy critical result 10+ and if he ever decides to power the gun off of his Potetia Coil the drain will likely cause fatigue! otherwise tell him/her to stop being such a power gaming oik!

 

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In the old Rogue Trader wargame Orks could combi up to d4+1 weapons together. Is this chap a mekboy?

I'd definitely allow him to try it. The issue of the overheating cooking off the bolter shells is real but should be solvable as the imperium does have plasma-bolters of the non twin linked variety. The simplest way to solve it in game would be to use/build best quality plama parts so they never overheat.

Another concern may be weight. Those weapons on their own will weigh in around 50kg and even if he manages to shave off a few kilos by combining the frames there is an argument to say that gun should count as a heavy weapon. That said Explorators do not have a difficult time in getting ridiculous lift capacities or the auto-stabilised trait so he should be OK.

A more pressing issue could be whether other Mechanicus would consider this crazy Orkish Shoota to be Heretek. That could be exciting if he tries to bring it to market..

Edit: Sorry forgot to put in rules suggestions for the design and build. There is a Trade (armourer) skill which should do nicely for weapons design. You could make this an extended test where the player rolls once each for each game week and needs to build up a certain number of successes to complete the project. He might even need some special gear - Archaeo or Xeno plasma technology which could be the springboard for an adventure or two.

You could run a few scenes where PCs walk through his crazy on-board weapons testing facility a la Q in james Bond. Of course any bad rolls could indicate some very exciting results for the weapons design team that week.

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Weight issues would be the first thing to calculate. You are talking about two bolter clips and two plasma flasks, and 4 large guns. I think, without a doubt, it should be classified as heavy. As Cromwell mentioned, those four guns add up to 50 Kg or 110 Lbs. Even for a supped up Explorator, that is a lot of weight in one item.

Inaccurate and Unreliable would be must have additions to the Overheat that the plasma brings. I would also think about forcing recharge in the basic fire mode as a "safety feature" as well as requiring protective clothing for the wielder due to the heat of a dual plasma discharge.

 

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 that is definitely heading into mekboy territoriy. that being said, I'd allow it, depending on his craft roll might impose inaccurate or unreliable charatceristics, assuming he can craft it himself. i definitely play up any other admech reactions as "WTF is that....thing!"

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ItsUncertainWho said:

 You are talking about two bolter clips and two plasma flasks, and 4 large guns.

Twin-linked guns do not carry more ammo.  Also, the combi-weapon part is smaller than a regular version of the same gun.

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As a rule: let the players do what they want and make them deal with the consequences.

The answer to the question "Should I let my players do this..." should always be "yes!" Your job as the GM is to make realistic consequences, weather the decision is to shoot someone, make a cool sounding gun, or overthrow the local thieves guild and set themselves up as the new master when you spent hours setting up a dungeon and a cool dragon fight at the end.

If it is physically possible (and this sounds like it is), let them do it, just make sure to enforce the consequences.

As a side note: I don't think you ever see man-portable twin-linked plasma weaponry on the tabletop or in the fluff, likely do to the over heating issue. As has been mentioned, this is a likely consequence they will have to deal with.

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riplikash said:

 

As a side note: I don't think you ever see man-portable twin-linked plasma weaponry on the tabletop or in the fluff, likely do to the over heating issue.

 

 

Captain Invictus of the Ultramarines uses a twin-linked Plasma Gun.

 

Also, Dark Heresy has Plasma Blasters (which is what Invictus uses).  They are twin-linked plasma guns.

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I think Cromwell put it best that the fact such an idea may make him a Heretek is more important than if the gun is buildable. Even if you do not believe the gun to be a "heretekal" design, you should have some ad mech members (though not all) accuse him of such, including some high ranking one if your crew meets any.

The major issue to me here is a misunderstanding of the universal mindset of 40k. The tech-priests are not the car mechanics or the electrical engineers we have today. For example, despite having many plasma pistols, the Imperium has long lost the knowledge to build new ones. Even the majority of the Ad Mech would not dare take one apart and put it together again much as most of us would not dare pop open the hood of our car to remove anything further than the battery. They are basically a cult of machine workers who have a better understanding of how to build, repair, and upgrade machines but do not necessarily understand why their repairs and upgrades work. That's why they treat mechanical work with a methodical and almost religious mindset and have guidelines on how to handle tech so they don't f*** anything up. However, like most giant organizations, there will be disagreements and that's where every explorator PC comes in.

Especially if the explorator has Trade(Armorer) and Trade(Technonmat) I think he or she should be able to build the gun, but this should weigh heavily on the characters own conscience as someone who has gone through the teachings (or in our worldview, brainwashing) of the Ad Mech and the Imperial Creed. This decision should be further affected by the contacts and peers of his past and their views on what is tech heresy and what isn't.

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 Sure, but linking them doesn't say the damage is doubled.  That would be silly.  And exactly how delicate is a weapon like that?  All that plasma heat and the routine concussion of your bolt rounds firing - sounds like an even heavier weapon.

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Citizen Philip said:

 Sure, but linking them doesn't say the damage is doubled.  That would be silly.  And exactly how delicate is a weapon like that?

No one implied the damage would be doubled.  And probably not any more delicate than the already ubiquitous plasma/bolters.

 

Either way, answer seems to be solved as everyone is in agreement.  Yes, it can be built.  It's also at least sort of heretical.

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DarknessEternal said:

 

 

Twin-linked guns do not carry more ammo.

 

 

 

I would suggest rereading the Twin Linked description. Twin linked means two weapons that are welded together and rigged to fire simultaneously. To me it clearly says that you are expending double the ammo per shot and doubling the reload time to gain the bonus to hit and the extra hit possibility. I am pretty sure that you are looking at two clips, one each per twin linked weapon type.

Storm on the other hand does not have the same wording in it's description so both barrels will feed from one source.

You are,of course, free to go with some odd dual feed mechanizm and allow one clip per weapon type, but with the double ammo expenditure, those single clips won't last long.

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I would suggest making the skill roll yourself so the player wouldn't know if his crazy design works or not before trying it.

If the roll fails, I suggest you roll on the "Ill-advised tampering with the tools of death and mayhem" table I just improvised. Roll 1D10 +1 per degree of failure.

1-2. It ain't that bad. The weapon's barrel isn't in line with the sights. This causes a -20 penalty to the BS when shooting the weapon. This can be fixed with a Challenging Trade (whatever is adequate) test.

3. Looking for something ? The weapon's magazine sometimes fall off when the weapon is fired. Roll 1D10 every time the weapon is used. On a 1, the magazine has fallen off and the weapons needs reloading. This can be fixed with a Challenging Trade (whatever is adequate) test.

4-5. Fragile. The weapon is now Unreliable. If it already was Unreliable, it now jams every time the firer misses his BS roll.

6. Hot, hot, hot ! The weapon burns the user's flesh every time it is fired, inflicting 1 Wound to his weapon arm (ignoring armor and Toughness). This can be prevented by wearing heat-repelling clothing and gloves.

8-9. Woah ! Due to a defect in the fire selector, the weapon empties its whole magazine in a long burst the first time it is used. Treat this as a full auto with a RoF equal to the weapon's magazine capacity. Then the internal mecanism melts and the weapon is rendered useless.

10-11. Boom ! The weapon explodes the first time it is fired. Treat this as a normal attack against the user's weapon arm, except the type is E.

12 or more. Ka-Boom ! The weapon explodes the first time it is fired, igniting the whole magazine. Treat this as an E attack against the user, multiplying the normal damage by the number of ammo present in the magazine. Time to burn that Fate point.

 

 

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skip the bolter use a storm bolter their basically 2 bolters meshed together any use best quality plasma parts add a compact fuction ( makes it fit better) does slightly less damage for a plama -2 damage - 2 AP i think or keep the plasme as is but give it the tearing quality scince there are 2 of them a hell of a lot of Trade armourer skill checks over a few months / game time of varying difficulty badda bing badda bang badda boom techno heresy 101 but only if hes caught..... thats what id do if it was my campaign

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