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Jephkay

Thoughts: Future of DH?

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Where do you want to see Dark Heresy go? Being the "entry level" 40KRPG, I don't think more Ascension level material is warranted. Perhaps an expansion for HIve Gang campaigns, or military action as Gaurd or Renegades. Maybe even a Mercenary supplement wherein rag-tag groups composed of Humans, Eldar, Ogryn, Kroot, Ratlings and Orks fighting in brushfire wars for a profit.

The Galaxy is a big place. Focusing on a single solar system might be a good time. I think Warhammer 40000 Role Play: Necromunda would sell out in hours.  This wouldn't be a series where the core rules are reprinted, but each book would expand the scope within about 256 pages or so (the size of the Inquisitor's Handbook).

Anyhow just a thought. With no word coming of Dark Heresy's future, and all the books in last year's Knowledge is Power now in our hands, speculation is all we've got.... I love this game system, and I see much more potential beyond the 3 core games. Heck, I'd even write Necromunda for Ross if he wanted it.  

Hints that I'm right about something from THOSE WHO WOULD KNOW are very welcome.

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Tech-Priest info. GW remain sparse on it to say the least, and this is a field that coud relly benefit considering how many people play one of these mysterious Cult members.

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I, personally, would like to see some of both.

I could see them releasing a series of smaller books, one for each of the careers, containing more character options, gear, and background. I would certainly appreciate that.

I think that the first thing we're going to see for ascension is going to be an adventure of some kind. Possibly even a three-parter like Haarlock.

 

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I almost feel Ascension should have gotten it's own line.

 

When I first heard of Dark Heresy, the idea of playing an Inquisitor really sparked my interest.  It was a bit of a let-down to discover we would actually be playing mere Acolytes.  It has since grown on me, of course, but I still think there's a lot more ground they could cover.

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I wouldn't mind seeing a Dark Heresy: Revised.  Not a 2nd Edition mind you, just updating it to bring it more in line with Rogue Trader and Deathwatch. 

 

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Jephkay said:

The Galaxy is a big place. Focusing on a single solar system might be a good time. I think Warhammer 40000 Role Play: Necromunda would sell out in hours.  This wouldn't be a series where the core rules are reprinted, but each book would expand the scope within about 256 pages or so (the size of the Inquisitor's Handbook).


Even one that took a step back in the control level for a Necromunda based RPG, so you role-play a small group rather than a single person, that would work. But yeah, Necromunda would sell out in hours.

BYE

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Well I can see at least four Ordo Books, Heritics, Malus, Xenos and Minor Ordo perhaps each will have their own Adventure Trilogy, a Vehicle Book and a Psykers compendium.

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 Well, my understanding is the vehicle rules will be provided in the rogue trader book, Into the Storm, but space ships are being saved for a future book in that line.

As for DH, I'd like to see a revised rulebook that brings DH in line with Rogue Trader and incorporates all Errata so far. After that, I'd like to see a Necromunda Campaign guide and an Ascension level trilogy of adventures. I think the Ordos can be handled in one book. I'd also like to see a new Creature Anathema with options for converting hordes, and providing more templates to apply to existing creatures.

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I kind of thought that FFG would say something about upcoming DH stuff during the W40k RPG Design Team Q&A on the Malleus Imperator event (I mean this quote taken from the schedule: "Meet the Warhammer 40,000 Roleplay design team: Ross Watson, Sam Stewart, and Mack Martin, for an informal Q&A on their respective games, plus exclusive previews of upcoming expansions for your favorite 40K roleplaying game.").

Did somebody attend that Q&A yesterday and care to share the info (if any)? I'm curious... happy.gif

 

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Drop Bear said:

Well I can see at least four Ordo Books, Heritics, Malus, Xenos and Minor Ordo perhaps each will have their own Adventure Trilogy, a Vehicle Book and a Psykers compendium.

Good choices.

I'd like a compendium book for the actual sector, barely any of it is detailed in terms of the planets outside of some adventures, its military strength, navigation travel times or external threats (Xenos/Chaos), the comparatively important people within it for fun, blackmail and influence.

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Any book they release from now on will have to have as broad an appeal as possible. I doubt we'll see seperate Ordo books, though we might get one covering all three. However the ordo's have already seen a lot of material in DotDG and the RH, which might limit their appeal.

I seriously doubt there's going to be a Necromunda book, both because it would be a niche product and because there might be licencing issues with GW (Necromunda may not have been covered by the licence for the RPGs).

There might be a book on the Calixis Sector, though the fact that there's plenty of free material on the web makes it less likely.

DH is on the waning ebb of its popularity cycle. There's still plenty that can be published for it, but the question is whether it will sell or not. The core books have all been released. Any supplements have to compete with the 'fresher' material for Rogue Trader and Death Watch.  I'd say a few more books and then either a new edition/revision to give the game a shot in the arm or else it'll be quietly dropped in favour of the newer games.

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@ Macd21

Why bring in a new designer like Mack if there are no future plans for DH?

Personally, of all the games currently out for FFG, DH is still my favorite. I was a bit leary at first of playing a peon in the Inquisitions plans, but after a few games, I found it was really fun. I own RT and will be buying DW, but I haven't played RT yet. DH is still my main game. Our group has started using some of the materials from RT, but we have no desire at this point to play Rogue Traders because the Inquisition aspect of DH is really appealing to us.

I look forward to whatever is released for DH in the near future, which hopefully includes a revised Core Rulebook (incorporating errata) and updating the game to be more compatible with RT (monetary system excepted.)

I agree that there are many people looking to play high powered Rogue Traders and Space Marines, but my group has discussed it and while we intend to run short term campaigns with DW when it comes out, that will be during down time in our DH game. It will enhance our play rather than replace DH.

The surest way to kill an RPG is to stop supporting it with new material. Gamers are always on the lookout for the newest shiney objects and can quickly become distracted if support goes away for their favorite game system.

Personally, a new rule system or a DH 2.0 is not really warranted. They probably only need a DH 1.25 or 1.50 to bring the game up to snuff with the differences between RT and what's coming out with DW.

Anyway, that's my 2 Thrones worth.

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LeBlanc13 said:

@ Macd21

Why bring in a new designer like Mack if there are no future plans for DH?

Personally, of all the games currently out for FFG, DH is still my favorite. I was a bit leary at first of playing a peon in the Inquisitions plans, but after a few games, I found it was really fun. I own RT and will be buying DW, but I haven't played RT yet. DH is still my main game. Our group has started using some of the materials from RT, but we have no desire at this point to play Rogue Traders because the Inquisition aspect of DH is really appealing to us.

I look forward to whatever is released for DH in the near future, which hopefully includes a revised Core Rulebook (incorporating errata) and updating the game to be more compatible with RT (monetary system excepted.)

I agree that there are many people looking to play high powered Rogue Traders and Space Marines, but my group has discussed it and while we intend to run short term campaigns with DW when it comes out, that will be during down time in our DH game. It will enhance our play rather than replace DH.

The surest way to kill an RPG is to stop supporting it with new material. Gamers are always on the lookout for the newest shiney objects and can quickly become distracted if support goes away for their favorite game system.

Personally, a new rule system or a DH 2.0 is not really warranted. They probably only need a DH 1.25 or 1.50 to bring the game up to snuff with the differences between RT and what's coming out with DW.

Anyway, that's my 2 Thrones worth.

Wholeheartedly agree with this.

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Mack was almost dying to tell us something coming out that wasn't approved yet so he couldn't tell us.

Also there are plans to release new material.  Mayhaps Sisters of Battle was hinted at, as in companion book for the differnet types and such.  Also something about pistols vs. rifles balancing.

Mack seems very knowledgable and friendly.  I wouldn't worry, he's going to do good things with the game.  We played a DH adventure for the weekend event with him.

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Suijin said:

Mayhaps Sisters of Battle

Oh god, please, no!!! Sisters of Battle are the only thing I deeply despise in W40K (I even tend to deny their existence at all).

So Mack, anything but this, please, I know you are good guy, right? :)))

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MILLANDSON said:

 

Mack has plans, don't you worry. If I were a new designer coming on as lead, I'd want to get used to it and get the house in order before starting to pump out new books.

 

 

Are you saying Ross left the house out of order?   gui%C3%B1o.gif

Sisters of Battle are fine. I don't think they are out of place at all in DH. They work for the Inquisition after all. Although I'd put them at a Rogue Trader level of power rather than Acolyte level. They should have Power Armor and a bolter as standard equipment, after all.

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egalor said:

Suijin said:

 

Mayhaps Sisters of Battle

 

 

Oh god, please, no!!! Sisters of Battle are the only thing I deeply despise in W40K (I even tend to deny their existence at all).

So Mack, anything but this, please, I know you are good guy, right? :)))

I'm curiosu as to why the hate for something to me that is just as iconic as Space Marines and the Ecclesiarchy

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LeBlanc13 said:

MILLANDSON said:

 

Mack has plans, don't you worry. If I were a new designer coming on as lead, I'd want to get used to it and get the house in order before starting to pump out new books.

 

 

Are you saying Ross left the house out of order?   gui%C3%B1o.gif

Sisters of Battle are fine. I don't think they are out of place at all in DH. They work for the Inquisition after all. Although I'd put them at a Rogue Trader level of power rather than Acolyte level. They should have Power Armor and a bolter as standard equipment, after all.

No, I just meant that Mack will want to have it organised just right (which might be different to how Ross had it organised) before the announcements start rolling out.

And I like the Sisters of Battle too. However, only Militant Orders should have Power Armour and a Bolter, Non-Militant Orders shouldn't.

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Heh. Good point... never thought of that.

Why would one of their non-com personnel be walking around in full Power Armour with a Bolter?

Still, something more the Sisters would be nice. Not 'whole new book dedicated to them' nice, but 'oops... we kinda forgot they existed when we wrote Ascension so here's this to make up for it' nice.

BYE
 

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andrewm9 said:

egalor said:

 

Suijin said:

 

Mayhaps Sisters of Battle

 

 

Oh god, please, no!!! Sisters of Battle are the only thing I deeply despise in W40K (I even tend to deny their existence at all).

So Mack, anything but this, please, I know you are good guy, right? :)))

 

 

I'm curiosu as to why the hate for something to me that is just as iconic as Space Marines and the Ecclesiarchy

You know, it's just a matter of style. One of the definitive cool things about w40k is the absence of those hollywoodesque emancipated (yet politically correct) super-girls-that-kill-bad-guys, which I come to hate. So, when I see those girls in Power Armour with a bolter - it just doesn't feel cool or right. Even more, I see how artificial they are.

After all, dark future is far too grim for pretty girls with fashionable haircuts to wage war - their sole purpose is to breed humans to feed the war machine.

Bwahaha!

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egalor said:

You know, it's just a matter of style. One of the definitive cool things about w40k is the absence of those hollywoodesque emancipated (yet politically correct) super-girls-that-kill-bad-guys, which I come to hate. So, when I see those girls in Power Armour with a bolter - it just doesn't feel cool or right. Even more, I see how artificial they are.

There really isn't a great deal politically correct about the Adepta Sororitas - the Orders Militant are allowed to exist through a linguistic loophole (they're not fighting men, they're fighting women), they're perhaps the most brutally intolerant of people you'd ever be inclined to meet anywhere in the Imperium outside of the Redemptionists, and their job is to ruthlessly police the religious purity of a galaxy-spanning organisation of religious zealots. They're psychotic, pyromaniac nuns with guns.

Side note - an interesting idea might well be to use the Sisters Militant as antagonists, perceiving the characters as dangerous heretics and apostates to be cleansed from the Imperium.

egalor said:

After all, dark future is far too grim for pretty girls with fashionable haircuts to wage war - their sole purpose is to breed humans to feed the war machine.

Firstly... pretty? The average Sister Militant will be scarred from years of conflict (and penitence) and extremely heavily built to make the most out of her armour, as if Joan of Arc was a masochist bodybuilder. From an in-setting perspective, the ones guardsmen tell dirty stories and jokes about will be the Sisters Hospitaller... who aren't nearly as scary.

As for the whole "women are for breeding" outlook applied to 40k - I don't honestly see a need for it. Humans will breed whether you want them to or not, and there are so many humans in the galaxy that the number of people born every second far outweighs the number of casualties suffered on every warzone and in every industrial accident every second... the Imperium doesn't, and doesn't need to, command people to breed. There are enough humans out there already that human life is already an easily renewable natural resource.

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N0-1_H3r3 said:

they're perhaps the most brutally intolerant of people you'd ever be inclined to meet anywhere in the Imperium outside of the Redemptionists

Hey, I know that too. As in real life, women in 40k tend to get things too seriously, while fanatic women adhere fanatically to any paradigm of her choosing. I'm fed up with this in my real life, so I neither enjoy this in the game. 'Nuns with guns' - it does have a nice warhammery ring to it, but behind this lies nothing I like due to the above reasons.

And Sisters of Battle *are* pretty, whatever they say. They even go to battle after visiting their hair stylist and with makeup, or so the w40k art indicates.

In other words, don't consider me a troll (in this case), but I fail to see any reason for GW to introduce SoB other than to make w40k more attractive to an average buyer.

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egalor said:

...I fail to see any reason for GW to introduce SoB other than to make w40k more attractive to an average buyer.


Nostalgia, and being painted into a corner.

GW made 'Sister Sin', a gothic sci-fi drawing of a woman in a Nun's habit blowing someone away with a Bolter.

Then someone said "Let's make an army with that!"

Then someone within the studio (Andy Chambers) became that army's champion, resulting in Codex Sisters of Battle in late 2nd Ed.

Then nostalgia kicked in and Sisters players got little updates and then finally they got lumped into the Witch Hunter Codex and made into a Chamber Militant.

Then GW said they wouldn't get rid of any more armies (hands up Lost & The Damned players?), so basically committed themselves to keeping Sisters in the game (the aforementioned painting of one's self into a corner).

And we're still in the same situation today.


Also, Sisters players are nuts. Balls-to-the-wall insane. And don't dare ever get into an argument over a new Codex, unless you want to hear an endless diatribe on why Sisters shouldn't be a Chamber Militant...

BYE

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