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ffgfan

Why Dark Elves are so weak?

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I don't know why but in my opinion the Dark Elves race is weak. I tried to biuld a deck only out of the Dark Elves cards and every combinbation is weak I'm gething beated down by every deck. Has someone of You a strategy or a good deck list for Dark Elves? I'm interested only in a single race deck - so only Dark Elves and neutral cards.

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ffgfan said:

I don't know why but in my opinion the Dark Elves race is weak. I tried to biuld a deck only out of the Dark Elves cards and every combinbation is weak I'm gething beated down by every deck. Has someone of You a strategy or a good deck list for Dark Elves? I'm interested only in a single race deck - so only Dark Elves and neutral cards.

Weird, DElves are bordering on overpowered for me, 12-3 in 15 games since I added AoU. And they lost twice when they had the Skaven cards in their decks, since removing the rats, only one loss, against HElves turn 2 Illyriel (as my DElf deck is unit-heavy). DElves pack control, sniping and enough units to burn a zone in a turn (esp. when you get 3 resources on Night Raids). Then again, my decks are built from 1x Core, 1x AoU and 1x BPs #1, #2, #4 and #5, with an even number of cards, mono-faction decks (mono-faction to me = only has one type of loyalty symbols).

My top to bottom in terms of kickassness:

DElves

Chaos

Dwarves/Empire/Orcs (tied since adding AoU)

HElves

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I'll be playing DE at my regional tournament, I think they're both underrated and underrepresented. I do have some issues with Orc rush, and a good BT deck (and a good BT deck player, because not everyone knows how to play them properly) can cause any unit heavy deck serious problems... but all in all my control/HP reduction focus works pretty well across the board. If anything, DE can shaft you due to the expense of most units... a bad Forced March/JoV or Flames can set me back to square one, and DE recover much slower from that than most other deck types.

Interestingly enough ffgfan, I only have 3x1 Skaven card in my deck, also. So that two players saying "Nah, DE rock!" is without the Skaven splash is... intriguing. I hear Deathmaster/DE combos are awesome, but I'm a diehard mono fan... The only reason I have skaven in there at all is for three more scouts. I love the play style and flavour of DE, and I have a pretty solid win ratio. When I get owned I get OWNED, usually due to card draw. But the majority of games are in my pocket.

I often wonder if I'm going to get my face smashed in at the tournament, as in, if the majority of players are ALL playing BT and Orc rush I'm probably screwed. But Khaine is all up in my grill, like, "Give me blood, wench!", so I have to represent. ^_^

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You see I'm a big fan of mono deck. I don't like to mix theme so I'm only making mono deck. I don't know why the Dark Elves are so weak in my plays. Chaos is kicking my ass, so do Orcs, even Dwarfs. So what I do wrong?

Could someone of You please write here the card list for Your deck of DE?

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Maybe your deck is mono, but your deck type is not focused enough? There are many different types of DE deck... control, HP reduction, corruption, skaven splash HP reduction, development decks... choose one of these and really be brutal when cutting out the dross. Making a good deck often means sacrificing "great" DE cards in order to get the deck working, the key being drawing what you NEED instead of what is theoretically good. Playtesting is the most important part, in my opinion. You can have a kick ass concept, but often in playtesting it can fall on its face, while at the same time unexpected combos can be discovered by drawing up cards that you wouldn't normally consider "complimentary".

There is also the fact that some match ups are not just favorable for certain factions.

Also, are you playing with only the core set, or with AoU and the battlepacks? This could be a factor... Without a good card selection it's hard to focus on one tactic.

For various reasons I'm avoiding posting my decklist until after our regional tournament, but I'm sure if you checked out the deckbuilding forum you'd find some workable DE ideas.

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A friend of mine plays DE Control and did pretty well in each tournament we held (second, first, fifth and first place).

 

I've a little testing experience against/with DE and I got the main reasons why it's pretty difficult to make them work:

1- they rely a lot on opening hand. Even if everyone does, what I mean here is different. Dark Elves live upon lots of weird/powerful interactions (sacrifice stuff, get resources, HP contro, jump back, etc.). They need some resources to work and the classic T1 openings, even if powerful, are pretty "expensive" in card terms.

So, in order to get a good advantage in the early game, you have to be a little bit lucky, because if you're not, they're pretty slow.

Mulligan is suggested each time you don't have "weird" openings.

 

2- HP control/DE tricks work pretty well against small stuff. "Call the Blood " helps a lot against Orcs/Skaven/Caos "big ones", but it's not enough.

Hand destruction (maybe too expensive) is a good help, but sometimes takes out too many slots and it's not worth the effort.

The thing is: you've to try to control a lot early game Units, in order to "stop" the resource generation of the oppo...Too bad you need the early game to set up...

Result: as seen above, if you don't have a good start, it will become a hard match.

 

3- Lack of some kind of Units.

Dark Elf have wonderful/nice 3-cost (or so) Units, with insidious effects...But they tend to be a bit redundant and you cannot find good stuff to hit the oppo in the mid game. Sometimes "Cold One Riders" are useful in the KZ or QZ and "Mortella" and similar Units are there just for their effect (basically, they're support cards).

The Finishers are less strong than the oders: Malus Darkblade is basically a "don't defend if you don't kill me" and Lokhir needs some effort to be effective.

Result: you can set up wonderful/amazing table locks, but you don't have the classic control deck winning condition coming in the mid/late game. You just need patience. :)

 

 

In the end, they're pretty flexible and effective against small Units and have nice cards to "entertain" the oppo with tricky stuff...In the mean time you need some effort to get some card advantage and your QZ has to grow at the same time of your KZ, IMHO. In other decks you don't have to rely a lot on this thing, but here it's...a forced. :)

 

Playtest them a lot and try different combinations: the best thing is to stay around 23-25 Units and rely a lot on Tactics, using the most Resource generation you can (including Hate/Innovation, WE and CV).

Har ganeth is great, because even if uneffective in the mid/late game, can give you some advantage in the early game and it's an easy for the KZ.

Mortella is not a great choice if you don't rely a lot on hand control/discard, 'cause it's expensive and thend to get a "dead turn" when it comes out with WE in the QZ (you have Chillwind but it's another slot you basically put in just to keep her working and it's useless without a proper resource generation).

Try to focus around basic control and, if you don't like splash, think about "Burn it Down" if you don't allow sideboards in your area, 'cause it is another way to control rush decks (it wipes out WE first turn and if you run Innovation/Hate you can get back some money to play other things).

 

 

IMHO ;)

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DB.Cooper said:

The Finishers are less strong than the oders: Malus Darkblade is basically a "don't defend if you don't kill me" and Lokhir needs some effort to be effective.

I've found Malus best when sitting in the KZ, you get his 3 P as resources and his ability still works, since it doesn't require him to be involved in the combat. It also leaves BZ for Lokhir. At least for me, Night Raids gets use and is just what the doctor ordered, when combined with their sniping and control, having +1P for each unit means they can easily hit for 15+ in a zone where defenders have been whittled down.

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Ok, so a made some changes in my DE deck. I filled it with more support and tactic cards. It's better but stil I must have to make more playtests with them.

Now I'm sure I wqill have to buy faster those battle pack that I'm  missing(Tooth And Claw, Arcane Fire). But I will buy them with The Burning of Derrickburg.

thanks for all the suggestions nad help.

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I've been playing DE primarily since I started.  I'll highlight some things I've noticed.

-Shades are killer, like absolutely killer.  Base loyalty 2 cost, run them with gutter runners and chillwind.  Some great opening control.

-Walking Sacrifice is also great, good to power loyalty by itself, and as a free card each turn with Har' Ganath.

-Mind Killer can be used like a poor man's lobber crew.  Stick it on a unit second turn for free.

-Typically seen in the bolt thrower, the massive amounts of gold that Contested Stronghold/Treasure Vaults/Buildings provide lend itself well to Dark Elf.  For one, their epic spell is actually usable, and you also get good control in Slave Driver, and offense in Naggaroth Spearmen.  You can also run Dark Visions to run through your deck and find your key support cards easily.

-The cauldron is an easy way to babysit your kingdom and focus your attention elsewhere.  This is nice because of all DE's battlefield development synergy.

-The sacrifice tactics are nice with other tactics that temporarily steal characters, or the corsairs.

-All of their heroes are good.  I feel like they're the only faction that has that.

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DE definitely do not seem weak.  There are a lot of different options when building a DE deck, although admittedly the card quality drops off pretty fast.

Standout cards which I sometimes play in decks that don't even have a DE capital:

  • Shades are fantastic, the most efficient scout in the game.
  • Vile Sorceress wins whole games vs. some archetypes (hi Empire!). If you can get multiples on the board or Sorceress + Har Ganeth it starts to get silly.
  • Har Ganeth is very strong, one of the best supports of the game, even though it's unique.
  • We Need Your Blood is solid, efficient unit removal.

The heroes are decent but nowhere near as good as the Skaven heroes.

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