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CaribbeanNinja

Form Up - republic squads preview

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10 hours ago, Captain Corvid said:

 

swm36_a2_arc-170.pngswm36_a2_btl-ywing.png

I'm struggling to justify the 15 point ARC-170 when the 10 point Republic Y-Wing can also inflict 2 damage with a crit, is speed 3, only 1 less hull, and can gain Counter 1 from Plo Koon. I know that Plo Koon costs 24 points, but if you also have some V-19s, his ability benefits all the generic squadrons; whereas Plo Koon cannot benefit the ARC-170 at all. And un-escorted ARC-170s will be sitting ducks -- that can soak up a lot of damage.

can also inflict 2 damage with a crit,

Yes, one black bomber has the same damage floor and ceiling (0 to 2) as two blue bomber, but two blue bomber will on average do more damage. They are not only more likely to hit 2 damage than Y-Wings, they're more likely to hit 1 damage than Y-Wings.

is speed 3, 

Meet Hyperspace Rings. The ARC-170's best friend.

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ARC: Average dmg 1.5, Crit chance 0.4375, Acc chance 0.4375, Blank (double acc) chance 0.125

Y-wing: Average dmg 1.0, Crit chance 0.25, Acc chance 0, Blank chance 0.25.

That's before rerolls. Cost-wise this seems pretty spot on, 2 ARCs vs 3 Y-wings.

3 Ys have more hull than 2 ARC, but want BCC more than the ARC does.

Edited by Green Knight

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20 hours ago, Flyinpenguin117 said:

Side note, I almost feel like the Republic Y-Wing should've been more in-line with how the ARC-170 was built. Republic Y-Wings were armored and had a gunner, so being tougher-but-slower with Counter 1 would fit while differentiating them from the stripped-down Rebel version. No ideas on how to build the ARC to be different from that, though.

This, kind of. I feel like they might have made a small mistake with the ARC. Firstly it kind of competes a bit with the Y-Wing for that bomber role. Maybe they should've put the 170 into Republic Squadron Pack 2 and put something less redundant like a Nu-Class with relay into pack 1. That would also have reinforced the early war theme present in this pack and wave 1 in general (outside the ARC of course).

Anyway, the ship doesn't at all conform to its agressive reconnaisance role. I would have expected a fairly expensive compromise between anti-squad and -ship with a focus on independent operation, annoying the enemy somewhere outside the main squadron engagement zone. So I guess Bomber, Grit (always felt like that keyword goes hand in hand with turrets/rear gunners, counter seems to be themed around nimble dogfighters) and Rogue (astromech, hyperdrive and copilot say it is definitely very capable of independent long range operation) would be a good fit. Maybe bumping the speed up to 3, the hull down to 5-6 (to balance that out) and cutting one blue die from the anti-squadron (It does seem like its armament is kind of hard to bring to bear against fighters, especially up close; Anti-ship is fine. It has those dual launchers, like the X-Wing, and cannons capable of damaging capital ship armor) might be more representative of the lore vessel to. The gaming standpoint is a different mattter though, but this would give it a unique role as the harassing light cavalry/skirmisher type of thing.

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34 minutes ago, LennoxPoodle said:

This, kind of. I feel like they might have made a small mistake with the ARC. Firstly it kind of competes a bit with the Y-Wing for that bomber role. Maybe they should've put the 170 into Republic Squadron Pack 2 and put something less redundant like a Nu-Class with relay into pack 1. That would also have reinforced the early war theme present in this pack and wave 1 in general (outside the ARC of course).

Leaving your other point aside, I frequently run Decimators which have 8 hull and counter 1, and I can tell you what a pig they are to take out and how much damage they deal.  Pair them up with Plo Koon for Counter 2 to make your opponent weep.

They're better than Decimators in that they're not Heavy so they can hold up enemy fighters attacking your ships.

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8 minutes ago, flatpackhamster said:

Leaving your other point aside, I frequently run Decimators which have 8 hull and counter 1, and I can tell you what a pig they are to take out and how much damage they deal.  Pair them up with Plo Koon for Counter 2 to make your opponent weep.

They're better than Decimators in that they're not Heavy so they can hold up enemy fighters attacking your ships.

Plo Koon only grants Counter 1 to (non-unique) squadrons that don't have Counter, he doesn't increase Counter values like Dengar.

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1 hour ago, LennoxPoodle said:

This, kind of. I feel like they might have made a small mistake with the ARC. Firstly it kind of competes a bit with the Y-Wing for that bomber role. Maybe they should've put the 170 into Republic Squadron Pack 2 and put something less redundant like a Nu-Class with relay into pack 1. That would also have reinforced the early war theme present in this pack and wave 1 in general (outside the ARC of course).

Anyway, the ship doesn't at all conform to its agressive reconnaisance role. I would have expected a fairly expensive compromise between anti-squad and -ship with a focus on independent operation, annoying the enemy somewhere outside the main squadron engagement zone. So I guess Bomber, Grit (always felt like that keyword goes hand in hand with turrets/rear gunners, counter seems to be themed around nimble dogfighters) and Rogue (astromech, hyperdrive and copilot say it is definitely very capable of independent long range operation) would be a good fit. Maybe bumping the speed up to 3, the hull down to 5-6 (to balance that out) and cutting one blue die from the anti-squadron (It does seem like its armament is kind of hard to bring to bear against fighters, especially up close; Anti-ship is fine. It has those dual launchers, like the X-Wing, and cannons capable of damaging capital ship armor) might be more representative of the lore vessel to. The gaming standpoint is a different mattter though, but this would give it a unique role as the harassing light cavalry/skirmisher type of thing.

Well, the Rebels already have a Grit-Rogue-Bomber in the Lancer, and hardly anyone uses it. If you were to take that, add 1-2 hull, Counter 1, and anti-ship with higher average damage, and its only real tradeoff is one less speed and anti-squad die (but again, Counter 1), it'd definitely need to be costed up, possibly in the 20s if you now compare this hypothetical ARC-170 to an 18-point Firespray. Basically, if you're loading it up with that many keywords you have to pay the cost on them, and this kinda exacerbates the issue with Lancers: If you have a Bomber, you want support for it (BCC, Nevoota Bee), and if you have that support, you want to Command them in the ship phase, so why pay the Rogue tax? All things considered, I'm fine with the ARC-170 being a B-Wing parallel.

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6 hours ago, Jimbo2142 said:

True. We need him, as one of the most poweful main-characters, in a Commander-Role.

Maybe later on he's gonne be the Commaner in some Wave.

But, to be honest its a poor beginning for the "chosen one", his value as a Squadron not mentioned.

He’s definitely coming back. I wouldn’t worry. We’ll probably get him as an officer, commander, and ETA-2 ace, and we might even get him on the Twilight!

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3 hours ago, LennoxPoodle said:

Anyway, the ship doesn't at all conform to its agressive reconnaisance role. I would have expected a fairly expensive compromise between anti-squad and -ship with a focus on independent operation, annoying the enemy somewhere outside the main squadron engagement zone. So I guess Bomber, Grit (always felt like that keyword goes hand in hand with turrets/rear gunners, counter seems to be themed around nimble dogfighters) and Rogue (astromech, hyperdrive and copilot say it is definitely very capable of independent long range operation) would be a good fit.

It still makes some sense in a recon framework; it’s got a hyperdrive, and it’s durable enough in a dogfight.  It’s just a lot slower than more specialized fighters, which makes sense from RotS: those Trifighters ran circles around Squad Seven.

I didn’t like it thematically at first either, but I’ve warmed to what they chose in a game focusing on direct combat between full task forces.

Edited by The Jabbawookie

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22 hours ago, LennoxPoodle said:

Anyway, the ship doesn't at all conform to its agressive reconnaisance role. I would have expected a fairly expensive compromise between anti-squad and -ship with a focus on independent operation, annoying the enemy somewhere outside the main squadron engagement zone.

Let’s be honest, the ARC-170 is basically a Star Wars version of WW2 carrier-based torpedo bombers, like the SBD (Scout Bomber Douglass) Dauntless or the TBF Avenger. Neither of those planes were exactly speedy and relied on their rear gunners to help keep enemy fighters at bay. Speed 2 with counter 1 seems to fit perfectly. 

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5 hours ago, Wolf_58 said:

Implacable to help defend a key jedi may be worth it, yet it depends on how easy it it to use to make it fully worth it.

I think Implacable will be used more often to protect another ship, or Republic Aces from enemy ships' flak, especially the Munificent's red die.

Luminara and V-19 escorts seem like the best protection for Aces, because as long as there are some V-19s around, Luminara and other Aces are safe from enemy squadrons.

Implacable could be one of those ship titles that seems good at first, but when the Acclamator receives more ship titles in the future, it might become a dud. At least it's only 4 points, instead of 8 points for Redemption or 12 points for Dominator.

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4 hours ago, Captain Corvid said:

I think Implacable will be used more often to protect another ship, or Republic Aces from enemy ships' flak, especially the Munificent's red die.

Luminara and V-19 escorts seem like the best protection for Aces, because as long as there are some V-19s around, Luminara and other Aces are safe from enemy squadrons.

Implacable could be one of those ship titles that seems good at first, but when the Acclamator receives more ship titles in the future, it might become a dud. At least it's only 4 points, instead of 8 points for Redemption or 12 points for Dominator.

Yes most likely a dud or very niche. It does go well with Kenobi and ship damage, so maybe not so niche after all.

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2 hours ago, Wolf_58 said:

Yes most likely a dud or very niche. It does go well with Kenobi and ship damage, so maybe not so niche after all.

I think for combat ships (as opposed to carrier ships), implacable will be pretty useful. It may make consulars last a lot longer, and if you areusing 2 acclamators, gives you basically double the engineering capacity if the other ship is the one being picked on.

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4 hours ago, EagleScoutof007 said:

Knowing that Rex has flown the twilight. Any chance he might end up as the Ace pilot?

The Twilight will most likely be a squadron in a Clone Wars "Rogues and Villains" pack, rather than Republic Fighter Squadrons II, but Rex isn't a Rogue or a Villain. Whereas Anakin -- or Ahsoka -- could loosely be called a Rogue while flying the Twilight.

I'm certain that Anakin will be the Ace for the Twilight. But if AMG emulates what FFG has done with Armada campaign expansions, the Twilight could get a second batch of Aces and Uniques, similar to how Rebellion in the Rim added new Rogues and Villains Aces.

TBH I hope AMG changes things up and just releases a "Squadrons Upgrade Expansion" rather than include new squadrons in a Clone Wars campaign expansion.

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9 hours ago, Captain Corvid said:

The Twilight will most likely be a squadron in a Clone Wars "Rogues and Villains" pack, rather than Republic Fighter Squadrons II, but Rex isn't a Rogue or a Villain. Whereas Anakin -- or Ahsoka -- could loosely be called a Rogue while flying the Twilight.

I'm certain that Anakin will be the Ace for the Twilight. But if AMG emulates what FFG has done with Armada campaign expansions, the Twilight could get a second batch of Aces and Uniques, similar to how Rebellion in the Rim added new Rogues and Villains Aces.

TBH I hope AMG changes things up and just releases a "Squadrons Upgrade Expansion" rather than include new squadrons in a Clone Wars campaign expansion.

Not all those Squadrons had rogue though. I can't wait to see all the new squadrons they'll bring to the game. I'm hoping to see a U-wing and Tie Reaper some point soon.

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13 hours ago, EagleScoutof007 said:

Not all those Squadrons had rogue though. I can't wait to see all the new squadrons they'll bring to the game. I'm hoping to see a U-wing and Tie Reaper some point soon.

I believe that "Rogues and Villains" referred to the characters of the Aces, not the Rogue keyword. None of the squadrons had a "Villain" keyword.

Rex was committed to the Republic so I doubt he'll appear as an Ace in a Clone Wars equivalent of the Rogues and Villains pack. It's possible Rex will be the Ace for a Nu-class attack shuttle or a LAAT/i gunship squadron, probably with the Assault keyword because he participated in numerous boarding actions.

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12 minutes ago, Captain Corvid said:

I believe that "Rogues and Villains" referred to the characters of the Aces, not the Rogue keyword. None of the squadrons had a "Villain" keyword.

Rex was committed to the Republic so I doubt he'll appear as an Ace in a Clone Wars equivalent of the Rogues and Villains pack. It's possible Rex will be the Ace for a Nu-class attack shuttle or a LAAT/i gunship squadron, probably with the Assault keyword because he participated in numerous boarding actions.

I could see him as an Ace for a shuttle not a LAAT/i though. Maybe another boarding team?

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3 minutes ago, EagleScoutof007 said:

I could see him as an Ace for a shuttle not a LAAT/i though. Maybe another boarding team?

I don't think the LAAT/i gunship belongs in Clone Wars Armada, but it's so popular and iconic that I wouldn't be surprised if it appears in Republic Fighter Squadrons II -- similar to how the LAAT/i ended up in X-Wing 2E.

If the LAAT/i does appear in CWA, it will certainly have Assault -- I can't imagine what else it would be used for.

The Nu-class attack shuttle or Eta-class shuttle are other options for the Assault keyword, but those two should have Relay and/or Strategic instead (akin to the Lambda and VCX-100).

I agree that Rex will probably be a Boarding Team -- although it should be Anakin commanding the boarding team and Rex commanding the Clonetroopers. But if it is Rex's BT, that would free up Anakin. I predict Rex will be the first Republic boarding team, and maybe later Anakin will be a BT with a stronger ability and cost more points.

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3 hours ago, Cruzer said:

Can we please stop saying the "R&V" word? I still get flashbacks from having to buy 4 squads I didn't want so I could get 1 each of the ones I did. I'd much rather they keep the new trend of just splitting things entirely along faction lines :P

That decision will fall to AMG now, but they'll probably follow the Clone Wars Armada trend of having expansions exclusive to one faction. But I plan on buying both CW factions anyway so I wouldn't complain if they do a combo pack. 😛

I don't know if either the Republic or Separatists have 8 unique Rogue/Villain characters/squadrons, so maybe they'll do 4 squadron types with 2 mini's each, an Ace and a generic, similar to the squadron packs. If the squadrons are good, players will want more than one of each anyway.

Edited by Captain Corvid

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On 11/21/2020 at 1:19 AM, Bravo Null said:

And we don't know when the Republic will be able to field this. 

Well one question answered! You can have one fleet support. Bcc would seem the obvious one if running ywings. Otherwise i guess comms net will be pretty critical so you can slow your acclamators down!

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