BX Sniper Commandos - Offensive Push or Hunter?

[Mace Windu 1,173]

I am running CIS in an event this weekend and due to delayed logistics in my country only just received my BX droids in the last week so haven't had a chance to test them out yet but definitely want to play 2 sniper squads in my army.

 

Does anyone have any preferences of advice on which option is better? Hunter feels potentially pretty powerful when shooting at a multi wound target, though getting the initial damage on them is easier said than done, while O Push feels like I'm only going to get 1-2 uses out of it each game, but at least I can choose when those times are.

 

Any advice would be welcome.

[thepopemobile100 977]

Take what I'm gonna say with a massive pile of salt cause I have been SOL on getting any of them.

If you're running the full squad I'd go with offensive push (and shields if I'm going to be recovering a lot). The sniper strikes would probably end up with hunter (if that). I say that because what I end up doing a lot of with snipers is chipping commanders, where hunter is outright better and also tend to have red defense around here. When shooting squads I tend to do it for suppression over anything else.

[XR8rGREAT 236]

1 hour ago, Mace Windu said:

I am running CIS in an event this weekend and due to delayed logistics in my country only just received my BX droids in the last week so haven't had a chance to test them out yet but definitely want to play 2 sniper squads in my army.

 

Does anyone have any preferences of advice on which option is better? Hunter feels potentially pretty powerful when shooting at a multi wound target, though getting the initial damage on them is easier said than done, while O Push feels like I'm only going to get 1-2 uses out of it each game, but at least I can choose when those times are.

 

Any advice would be welcome.

I’m having the same tough decisions. Would this event be the Charity one in Wellington? Now back to painting Staps.

Edited November 16 by XR8rGREAT

[NetCop 107]

In my experience offensive push is much more useful on them in all the cases except playing Cad Bane where your sniper could help him to collect the bounty by softening enemy commander/operative.

[Qraith 191]

It really depends how many order chains you can start. If you're running 1 Uplink I'd take 1 offensive push maximum. 

If you're running 2 Uplinks I'd run neither of them. Most of the time you can get your order to the BX anyway. 

I would rather spend the Points you gained from not taking the upgrade to be blue Player. Also Keep in mind that hunter does not work with units of 1 HP models

[Darth Sanguis 6,327]

10 hours ago, Mace Windu said:

Does anyone have any preferences of advice on which option is better?

I have had a good amount of success with Hunter. 

I like running them as a sniper strike team with the shields and hunter. 

You don't need to give them orders, just use the AI to gain a dodge or a move and scale to get them to a safe space and hunter should help give the aims. It makes them a tanky and lethal if not slightly expensive sniper unit. 

Just make sure you have order control for the rest of your army. Any sniper strike team can be vunerable if you are unable to mitigate randomness in the order pool. 

[buckero0 1,956]

58 minutes ago, Darth Sanguis said:

I like running them as a sniper strike team with the shields and hunter. 

You don't need to give them orders, just use the AI to gain a dodge or a move and scale to get them to a safe space and hunter should help give the aims. It makes them a tanky and lethal if not slightly expensive sniper unit. 

56pts vs 74pts is a lot though (36pt between the 2), does the shield help that much? Because then you're almost in 1 sniper and 1 large group territory pointswise. Sure the Shields give you 2 blocks, but the large unit gives you 3 extra wounds. 

I'm just asking.

[Darth Sanguis 6,327]

16 minutes ago, buckero0 said:

56pts vs 74pts is a lot though (36pt between the 2), does the shield help that much? Because then you're almost in 1 sniper and 1 large group territory pointswise. Sure the Shields give you 2 blocks, but the large unit gives you 3 extra wounds. 

I'm just asking.

Its a great point. 

There are a couple of reasons I think the 74 point version works better. Heavy weapons team is the first. Without this keyword terrain scoping the sniper mini is super easy. Second is the shields. I've found while playing these snipers it's actually pretty easy to get them orders 3-4 rounds out of the game, which means they're primed to shoot then recover when they need to, as long as you have heavy cover and the shields are up they're tanking a lot of firepower. If you can't get them an order the option to draw from the pool and use AI: move to get them out of LoS for a round to recover is also an option. Meaning the next round they can also AI:move, scale and shoot with relative ease. Scale, while not exclusive is also a reason these work. Free clambers make popping these bad bois in and out of LoS super easy. 


My experience with them has had them tank ISF shots and DTs and still leaving them available to shoot 4-5 rounds out of the game. 

Edited November 16 by Darth Sanguis

[buckero0 1,956]

13 minutes ago, Darth Sanguis said:

My experience with them has had them tank ISF shots and DTs and still leaving them available to shoot 4-5 rounds out of the game. 

Do the shields work against crits?  I can't remember the timing on this.

If they do, then I could see the shields working, you'd get 4 wounds at least with 1 recover

[Darth Sanguis 6,327]

3 minutes ago, buckero0 said:

Do the shields work against crits?  I can't remember the timing on this.

If they do, then I could see the shields working, you'd get 4 wounds at least with 1 recover

"Certain units have shield tokens that allow them to cancel hit (󲉠) results or even critical (󲉡) results. Shield tokens are double-sided, with an active side and an inactive side" Page 69 of the RRG  

Yup, they block hits and crits. 

For reference: 

Certain units have shield tokens that allow them to cancel hit (󲉠) results or even critical (󲉡) results. Shield tokens are double-sided, with an active side and an inactive side.
• Shield tokens always enter play with their active side faceup.
• Shield tokens are placed on the battlefield next to the unit that has those shield tokens.
• Shield tokens belong to the unit, and are not assigned to individual minis.
• When a unit flips an active shield token, that shield token is flipped to its inactive side and is now inactive. When a unit flips an inactive shield token, that shield token is flipped to its active side and is now active.
• While defending against a ranged attack, during the “Apply Dodge and Cover ” step of the attack, a unit can flip any number of its active shield tokens to their inactive side to cancel 1 hit (󲉠) or critical (󲉡) result for each shield token flipped in this way.
 » Shield tokens can be used this way only during ranged attacks, not melee attacks.
• If an attack pool as the ion x keyword, During the Apply Dodge and Cover step of the attack, the defender must apply any other effects (such as dodge tokens and cover) before flipping active shield tokens. Then, for each hit (󲉠) or critical (󲉡) result remaining up to x, where x is the value of the ion x keyword, the defender must flip an active shield token to its inactive side. Shield tokens flipped in this way do not cancel a hit (󲉠) or critical (󲉡) result. After doing so, if any active shield tokens remain, the defender may flip them to cancel hit (󲉠) or critical (󲉡) results as normal
• Certain game effects allow a unit to flip inactive shield tokens. When doing so, flip shield tokens from their inactive side to their active side. 

[Darth Sanguis 6,327]

I actually ran these yesterday just like this:


Seen on the right of the picture in the building and next to:



Same spot:


Later in the game:


The power went out mid -game, but the condition was limited vis so it was thematic. lol We played until the sunlight was too low to keep going. The snipers didn't get to do much, limited vis made the first 2 rounds a bit of a wash, but round 3 and 4 they were doing work. 

[Mace Windu 1,173]

At this stage I don't have the points in the list to be able to run the shields as well (Though I do like the idea of trying them out), I think there seems to be merit in either option though I think Hunter is a little too specific and feels like you might make slightly less optimal target priority in order to proc hunter while OP can be used on a critical turn to ideally push through damage with Lethal when you need it the most. 

Hopefully it works out this weekend.

@XR8rGREAT yes indeed the tournament this weekend in Wellington, got the 2 sniper squads painted last night just in time for the weekend  

[XR8rGREAT 236]

59 minutes ago, Mace Windu said:

At this stage I don't have the points in the list to be able to run the shields as well (Though I do like the idea of trying them out), I think there seems to be merit in either option though I think Hunter is a little too specific and feels like you might make slightly less optimal target priority in order to proc hunter while OP can be used on a critical turn to ideally push through damage with Lethal when you need it the most. 

Hopefully it works out this weekend.

@XR8rGREAT yes indeed the tournament this weekend in Wellington, got the 2 sniper squads painted last night just in time for the weekend  

I’ve just finished my Staps for this weekend. Can’t wait to try them out with Bane and my BXs as well as I haven’t used any of them yet. Haven’t played a game since mid September.

[buckero0 1,956]

@Darth Sanguis

I love the Conga Line of Super battle droids on the bottome left.

[Darth Sanguis 6,327]

8 minutes ago, buckero0 said:

@Darth Sanguis

I love the Conga Line of Super battle droids on the bottome left.

He infiltrated a unit of pathfinders at exactly range 3, then first activation moved them into range 2 behind that building. I had HAs on the B2s so I moved the unit leader so it could see a mini then cohered the rest of the minis so that each mini could see a guy through the windows I ended up blasting 3/4 of the unit off the matt 2nd activation of the game lol 
 

[player5006253 45]

I really like the shields on a BX unit if they are gonna be a behind cover objective holding unit. Makes them very hard to kill.

I had a hard time pulling off recovers for offensive push the one time I used it, It just seems clunky for the unit. Have not tried Hunter but I could very much see it being useful on a vibroswords unit.

[arnoldrew 1,713]

11 hours ago, player5006253 said:

I really like the shields on a BX unit if they are gonna be a behind cover objective holding unit. Makes them very hard to kill.

I had a hard time pulling off recovers for offensive push the one time I used it, It just seems clunky for the unit. Have not tried Hunter but I could very much see it being useful on a vibroswords unit.

Most of the time when people use Offensive Push they don't bother Recovering, unless the unit gets a free Recover or is built for Recovering with multiple Exhaust upgrades. It's just a free aim once per game. 

[player5006253 45]

1 hour ago, arnoldrew said:

Most of the time when people use Offensive Push they don't bother Recovering, unless the unit gets a free Recover or is built for Recovering with multiple Exhaust upgrades. It's just a free aim once per game. 

 

Yeah, I don't like the idea for spending points for a one time aim token on white die, but I guess I could see it if you are bumping up to the end of the list and out of things to spend it on. most the time I would take an extra B1 in my list for two more points

[Lochlan 1,034]

49 minutes ago, player5006253 said:

Yeah, I don't like the idea for spending points for a one time aim token on white die, but I guess I could see it if you are bumping up to the end of the list and out of things to spend it on. most the time I would take an extra B1 in my list for two more points

To be clear, people are specifically talking about taking it with the Sniper. Ergo not only Red dice with the White, but also Lethal.  A guaranteed aim token to add Pierce when you really need it is a Big Deal, especially on a unit with AI, even if it is only once per game.

[arnoldrew 1,713]

1 hour ago, player5006253 said:

 

Yeah, I don't like the idea for spending points for a one time aim token on white die, but I guess I could see it if you are bumping up to the end of the list and out of things to spend it on. most the time I would take an extra B1 in my list for two more points

Wait are you talking about putting it on B1s? We're talking about BXs. You need the aim to add Pierce 1 to the attack with Lethal. It's totally worth it, even if you just use it once. You also have the option to use it for the reroll if you blank out. You get waaaaay more out of Offensive Push on BXs than another B1 for 2 fewer points.

[player5006253 45]

Oh. I see. I have only played a couple games with them and I didn't take snipers on any units cause it  was just kitchen table style and I stay off snipes for that with friends.

 

Ignore my intrusion.

[Mace Windu 1,173]

 

So an update from playing at the tournament last weekend, I definitely think Offensive Push was the right call for 2 reasons:

There were key turns in each of my 3 games where turning on lethal with the OP against a specific unit got the kill on a last mini in a unit or the unit heavy.

1) Had I taken Hunter I would have been sorely disappointed as in each of my 3 games the primary multi-wound target was a sabre wielder (Dooku, Luke & Obi wan) so being immune pierce makes lethal redundant.

2) Of the units that did have multi-wounds without sabers, Taun Tauns were not worth shooting as BX Snipers don’t have High Velocity so just eat dodge tokens all day and Cassian was the only other non-tank multi-wound unit my snipers shot at all day and I never managed to wound him anyway so Hunter would still have been dead weight.

I think going forward OP is the right call, in my meta anyway where players like beefy sabre wielders, but it really did make me realize that a lot of the  relevant targets for Hunter are going to immune pierce so not great for BX Snipers with Lethal.