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SuperTimo

Starhawk counter?

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Please help. I am an imperial player and getting absolutely SLAUGHTERED by starhawk in games of rebellion in the rim. I know there's the strategy of killing everything BUT the starhawk, but in Ritr, with only a 200pt fleet start they are using pretty much just starhawk and medium transports. 

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That was unkind of them... Only advice I can give, retire and bring an Onager with big OP cannons. This is my first form post so take what you will from that, but the Onager is one of the only things I can think of that is proficient at killing starhawks, although on a three by three board you will probably still have trouble. My game group is probably just going to outlaw "cruel" ships when we get around to a RitR campaign. So bring squads and onagers.

Edited by phoenix7000
adjusting wording

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1 hour ago, SuperTimo said:

Please help. I am an imperial player and getting absolutely SLAUGHTERED by starhawk in games of rebellion in the rim. I know there's the strategy of killing everything BUT the starhawk, but in Ritr, with only a 200pt fleet start they are using pretty much just starhawk and medium transports. 

Fighters.

Loads and loads of fighters.

Make them drown in swarms.

 

This way you take their strength, that front arc and salvo off the table and you can slowly deal some damage by a thousand cuts.

Starhawks have a hard time countering fighter swarms.

Edited by Wintercross

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2 hours ago, Wintercross said:

Fighters.

Loads and loads of fighters.

Make them drown in swarms.

 

This way you take their strength, that front arc and salvo off the table and you can slowly deal some damage by a thousand cuts.

Starhawks have a hard time countering fighter swarms.

Would an isd still be an effective carrier? In a 200 point list it will take more than half, but it seems like the only ship that might survive to the end of the game 

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2 hours ago, Green Knight said:

Playing with Larges in RitR is not forbidden, but it is boring. The SH being, possibly, the most boring ship of all. Why are you playing a campaign if it's max focus on trying to win by points fortressing?

Uuuh im not the one using the starhawk. And the other player is free to choose whatever ships they want. At the very least, the other fleet does not contain a starhawk

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5 hours ago, phoenix7000 said:

That was unkind of them... Only advice I can give, retire and bring an Onager with big OP cannons. This is my first form post so take what you will from that, but the Onager is one of the only things I can think of that is proficient at killing starhawks, although on a three by three board you will probably still have trouble. My game group is probably just going to outlaw "cruel" ships when we get around to a RitR campaign. So bring squads and onagers.

Sounds good, but which superweapon upgrade will work better? Particle cannons for range or composite beam turbolasers for effect?

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The biggest advantage you have is the Hawk's accuracy-weak token suite with no access to Agate or ECM.  Two ideas:

1. ISD, ECM, Bossk, Zertik (or Morna.)  Spam repair, and don't shoot the Starhawk unless you've completely avoided the front arc.  Bomb the transport, using Zertik to trigger Bossk's auto-accuracy.  This approach has the added benefit of being boring, which can discourage your opponent from trying this in the future.

2.  If you really want to try killing it, some burst damage with Captain Jonus to lock the brace is probably a decent way to go.  An Exrax Kuat or a Raider-1 are nice because they can tank or disengage, respectively.  A VSD-1 can't do either but it's cheap, so... maybe if you believe in the dice gods?

Edited by The Jabbawookie

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22 minutes ago, SuperTimo said:

Uuuh im not the one using the starhawk. And the other player is free to choose whatever ships they want. At the very least, the other fleet does not contain a starhawk

I realize that. But are you not trying to have a good time, all of you?

The tips you get in this thread, they are good, but are they providing you with A GOOD TIME?

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47 minutes ago, The Jabbawookie said:

The biggest advantage you have is the Hawk's accuracy-weak token suite with no access to Agate or ECM.  Two ideas:

1. ISD, ECM, Bossk, Zertik (or Morna.)  Spam repair, and don't shoot the Starhawk unless you've completely avoided the front arc.  Bomb the transport, using Zertik to trigger Bossk's auto-accuracy.  This approach has the added benefit of being boring, which can discourage your opponent from trying this in the future.

2.  If you really want to try killing it, some burst damage with Captain Jonus to lock the brace is probably a decent way to go.  An Exrax Kuat or a Raider-1 are nice because they can tank or disengage, respectively.  A VSD-1 can't do either but it's cheap, so... maybe if you believe in the dice gods?

Just need to say "clickety clackety, I roll to attackety" and the dice gods will help these lists along XD

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6 hours ago, SuperTimo said:

Please help. I am an imperial player and getting absolutely SLAUGHTERED by starhawk in games of rebellion in the rim. I know there's the strategy of killing everything BUT the starhawk, but in Ritr, with only a 200pt fleet start they are using pretty much just starhawk and medium transports. 

What does your fleet look like?

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5 hours ago, SuperTimo said:

Would an isd still be an effective carrier? In a 200 point list it will take more than half, but it seems like the only ship that might survive to the end of the game 

The ISD is a great carrier tbh, one that is a personal favourite of mine.

Just watch out for that front arc and make use of your better maneuverability to flank the Starhawk.

And hit it with as many bombers as you can.

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The Campaign is meant to take place in the outer rim (go, check the title...*insert boy scout meme here*) so playing with a little fluff and no heavy hitters really helps. Other than that, there a already plenty of tips in here.

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5 hours ago, SuperTimo said:

Sounds good, but which superweapon upgrade will work better? Particle cannons for range or composite beam turbolasers for effect?

Most likely the composite beams, due to the board being small enough that the super long rang of the orbital bombardment particle cannons is not really economical, or practical.

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In my play tests I have found that an ISD and a Vic has potential.  If you can get the Vic nose to nose with the starhawk, it can’t get around the medium base and is stuck.  Then either the ISD or Onager test bed can fire gleefully at the starhawk.  
 

Onager and interdictor work well as well.  The interdictor can repair a lot of the damage the star hawk inflicts while it is nose to nose with the starhawk.

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My friend brought one to our RitR game. My strategy essentially became kill whatever came with it and run. I won every match, but it wasnt fun when I just nailed his transport and fighters then ran away at speed 3. Kept winning by like 35-8. We eventually retired our 2 fleets because they wernt fun in skirmishes

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My group decided to let people play anything and we have a Rebel Starhawk player with a bunch of rogue squadrons.  My fleet works very well against him (and the other two which are a dual MC30+squads and a AF2/CF90+squads), especially as first player:

Master Nav I

Fighter Group Leader

Master Coordinator I

Kuat flagship with ECM, Defense Liaison, APT, OE

Gozanti with Comms

Gozanti with Reserve Hanger

Ciena, Valen, Gamma, 1x TIE Int, 1x TIE Fighter, 1x TIE Bomber

 

I do think for our next campaign that we'll do no large ships though.  It's an interesting challenge for one campaign, but not as fun I think.

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13 hours ago, SuperTimo said:

Please help. I am an imperial player and getting absolutely SLAUGHTERED by starhawk in games of rebellion in the rim. I know there's the strategy of killing everything BUT the starhawk, but in Ritr, with only a 200pt fleet start they are using pretty much just starhawk and medium transports. 

Try something like this:

 

Name: Untitled Fleet
Faction: Imperial
Commander:

Assault: Most Wanted
Defense: Fleet In Being
Navigation: Superior Positions

Onager Star Destroyer (110)
• Superheavy Composite Beam Turbolasers (7)
= 117 Points

Gozanti Cruisers (23)
• Boosted Comms (4)
= 27 Points

Squadrons:
• Maarek Stele (21)
• Captain Jonus (16)
• Gamma Squadron (10)
• TIE Bomber Squadron (9)
= 56 Points

Total Points: 200

 

Jonus will give Onager a free ACC - even from a blank. Lock down that Brace for the big super weapon shot. Jonus and Maarek will bomb the Hawk, helping to exhaust the redirect. Position Gamma and TIE/b so they are infront of Hawk and get run over so you don't even need to bother activating them. Eventually grab Weapons Battery Techs to guarantee super weapon crit. 

Edited by eliteone

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12 hours ago, Green Knight said:

Playing with Larges in RitR is not forbidden, but it is boring. The SH being, possibly, the most boring ship of all. Why are you playing a campaign if it's max focus on trying to win by points fortressing?

So I've never played a campaign, but might start one now that I have some friends who play. To me, a wholesale ban on Larges because of the Starhawk seems equally (okay, maybe slightly less) boring. What about just a 110 points cap per ship? The Rebels can't take the Starhawks or the MC80 Assault Cruiser, the big tanky points fortresses, but can still take their more specialized/less durable larges. The Empire can still field the ISD-I, which doesn't quite have the raw power and durability of the ISD-II or the specialized killiness of the Refits, and the Onagers, which are pretty glassy to be taking up 50% of your points. Both factions lose exactly 3 ships out of their roster (not counting the SSD, if that was even legal to begin with). 

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16 hours ago, SuperTimo said:

Please help. I am an imperial player and getting absolutely SLAUGHTERED by starhawk in games of rebellion in the rim. I know there's the strategy of killing everything BUT the starhawk, but in Ritr, with only a 200pt fleet start they are using pretty much just starhawk and medium transports. 

RitR is not the game mode for S-Hawks, Onagers, or SSDs (until the final pivotal). That's just bad manners on the part of that player, tbh. Next campaign, I highly recommend banning them from initial fleet builds.

Other people above are saying that this applies to large ships in general, but quite honestly the other larges are pretty nicely balanced for it since they minimize activations for the person using them, minimize squadron complements, and (unlike the S-Hawk) aren't built to pretty much 1v3 any configuration of small ships.

Seriously, RitR was made with MC80s, MC75s, and ISDs being out there (also SSDs because you legally can't have one round 1 due to the 200 limit). The S-Hawk and the Onager are not in that boat and should not see more than a single battle in a campaign.

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Since it is a campaign setting, you can't just up and change your list unless you restart. Changing his list could take a grueling amount of games to grind out the changes but then if you aren't having fun, why bother?

We started a RitR campaign and IMMEDIATELY ran into that "no fun" problem of players bringing the biggest ships they could. We played two rounds and restarted the whole campaign with a house rule of no large bases allowed. It mades things a lot more fun for everyone; the fleet builds were more creative and a lot of our otherwise under used ships hit the table. 

Edited by Dameon13

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Ling's 200pt Anti-Starhawk Scenario comes into play!

I played out a few dozen games against the Armada AI and found this to be a good set up:

Arquitens Command Cruiser (59)
• Tactical Expert (6)
• Reinforced Blast Doors (5)
• Dual Turbolaser Turrets (5)
= 75 Points

Arquitens Command Cruiser (59)
• Wing Commander (6)
• Reinforced Blast Doors (5)
• Dual Turbolaser Turrets (5)
= 75 Points

Squadrons:
• Mandalorian Gauntlet Fighter (20)
• TIE Advanced Squadron (12)
• 2 x TIE Bomber Squadron (18)
= 50 Points

Total Points: 200

 

You start with Reinforced Blast Doors, because they are a force multiplier for survivability (granted you are not one shot), and try to maintain yourself at long range while circling the Starhawk. Meanwhile, you use the Mandalorian to fly in and land raid tokens on it to shut down its ability to do commands, while having the TIE advanced  escort the Bombers to the front of the Starhawk, once they are in front, you just park them there and move them back to the front when overlapped by the beast. Even if you can't double arc with both the front and sides of the Arquitens, you are getting at least 6 shots off on it across 2 ships.

How it works in practice? Okay, you won't win every engagement but you are going to make them hurt. How well it does in reality vs a human player... I don't know yet. Covid.

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