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Loving what I’ve seen

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So, with all the negativity, I feel the need to praise what I’ve seen so far, and how excited I am.  A note that I have no connection to Descent. I thought 2e was too bloated when they let you use 1e stuff which was too hard to find, and it looked pretty generic compared to everything else  I own a ton of Imperial Assault, and I think the Descent/IA system was clunky and uninspired. This new game fixes so much  

I am so excited to see the game really going hard on the app, and taking it to a level that it needs to be to shine. One of my biggest issues with MoM2e is how same-y some of the characters can feel. Now, with this game, we get unique interactions with terrain and NPCs? That sounds amazing. 

The flipping mechanics sound incredibly cool. Getting to juggle abilities is a really cool decision space that doesn’t just deprive you of abilities, but instead forces a temporary change in tactics. Amazing. 

The Diablo-like abilities able to be crafted into gear is simply amazing, and the possibilities here are way beyond what you could do without the app (calculating 10% chance abilities? No thanks.)

The cardboard terrain and elevations  is simply stunning. Steampark got me started with the stuff, Tang Garden made me an addict, and now this game here has really nailed it. 

I love the new art style, as it actually feels different than every other dungeon crawler out there. There’s so much “standard epic fantasy” art out there. Give me something fresher and more indie, please!

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Honestly I don't mind it either. That is if it lives up to the promises mentioned in the stream. I hope there is a deep and engaging story, where your decisions have an impact on the story and the campaign outcome. I felt this is what they were really pushing for.

I am really digging the sculpts and the terrain. I love the furniture and all the tactile, 3d pieces. The "Tokens" from D2e always rubbed me up the wrong way.

I don't like the art, but I'm not going to make a big deal out of it.

 

What I really don't like is the removal of the Overlord. I feel that if they wanted to tell a story and make the game not feel like such a 'Race' then they should have repurposed to OL role and changed the rules to suit a more narrative, story based game play. If they game was to be more RP based why not make the OL more of a DM than a competitive player? Personally I didn't really like using the RTL app as I found it slowed the game play down too much and bottle necked the action. Not to mention, as a semi experienced DM and Overlord I almost disagreed with about 50% of the Apps monster tactics decisions. So I hope this get sorted out. The opportunity missed I feel, is that Descent Journeys In The Dark could have been their competitive, fast paced action, player vs player game and Descent Legends of the Dark could have been their more RP, slower more story driven product line, with a DM instead of a Overlord.

 

Overall I love the look, the feel of the game, if they pull off an exciting and immersive story experience it will be a winner in my books. But I certainly won't be putting away my D2e boxes any time soon.

Edited by Rekkless88

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Okay, finally finished then 1.5hrs high level overview and gotta say that I'm also kinda loving what I am hearing and seeing. 

A few points:

The Elephant in the Room, the Removal of the Overlord Player:

I totally agree that removing the Overlord was a good choice if you are goaling for a fully co-op game, which they were with this. The reason is that the game can then be designed from the ground up with the focus of how the player characters abilities, items, et al., can interact with the computer controller opponents. When you don't focus on one style, you end up with certain abilities that simply do not work or are holy crap too powerful when playing against either an Overlord player or an AI Overlord.  A good example of this would be the Appendix I in the Road to Legend rules; several hero abilities simply do not work, and a third of the Marshall deck does absolutely nothing because these abilities did not translate into an co-operative game. Monster stats and abilities no longer have to be balanced around preventing them from being overpowered with what a thinking Overlord can do with them with planned out tactics, secretive deck of powers, and more, while also keeping them from being so weak when a more simplistic AI is attempting to just rush the players. It opens up the design space for the developers to do more when you only have to worry about one game mode.

I also like that they emphasized over and over again that this is not Descent: Journeys 3rd Ed. and that that game, at its core, is a competitive game. While I would have a hard time seeing them launch a 3rd Ed. so soon after launching Legends, I think they are leaving themselves space to revisit that, or at the least return to further work on 2nd Ed.

 

Tiles/3d Terrain Pieces

I really love that they went 3d with the game. I have been playing a lot of Rangers of Shadowdeep and following a lot of co-op and competitive skirmish type of games (Skyrim, Frostgrave, Fallout WW, Brutality etc.) and missed the interesting terrain when I would go back and play Descent. The cardstock is a bit of a letdown compared to some of the plastic scatter terrain I've seen for tables, barrels, chests, etc. but it looks serviceable and honestly a bunch of terrain can add a big price tag depending on how much there is. The multiple levels is rather interesting to me, I didn't predict them doing that and its a very nice looking table presence, and I'm interested in how it affects gameplay.

I'll agree with the artwork of the boards be a bit bland. I can understand that keeping it simpler in design allows for a much wider opportunities of positioning, and instead of having points of interest on the tiles themselves, they are using the before mentioned terrain pieces for that. I think its a forgivable sin.

 

Character abilities and progression

Getting rid of the classes is a bit of an odd call, but it seems that they may be going for larger decks of abilities and therefore each hero will have severable viable "trees/builds" that you can work towards, similar to many vRPGs out there, instead of picking a hero and class combination, so, it should work. Crafting sounds interesting and I like the idea of sidegrades instead of upgrades for equipment. I'm also intrigued with the flip mechanics and getting away from the attrition of Fatigue. Now fatigue just results in you flipping and changing what ability/weapon/etc. you have available for the next few moments.

The way you can also personalize you hero by the choices they make and NPC interactions during the campaign is a really sweet touch. The campaign adjusting based on what heroes are in play is really cool, although, I hope they are going to roll newer heroes into the Act 1 stuff as Act 2 and 3 come out.

 

Price:

Ouch. I mean, I'll get it. I've dropped $125 on smaller board games before wile on Kickstarter, and when I bought into Everdell I dropped $250 for the CE + expansions, so its not a blocker for me. I am interested in what Act 2 and 3 are going to look like. Unless they are also going to be having around 6 more heroes, 40'ish new monsters, equivalent terrain, etc., they will likely be smaller boxes and less costly. It also sounds like they have a beginning and end planned out already for the game, so there will not be a lot of other content to purchase and we can just focus on getting those sets.

Also, it sounds like these game Acts are going to be the official progression of the Terrinoth storyline for a bit, so I'm really interested to see what they have planned.  

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Ignore the negativity. This forum is full of it because all D2E hardcore fans expected a 3rd Edition of the same game. After a few month they won't be around here.

Also, Today's internet is full of people complaining about everything. I guess that in their real life (job, friends, gf (if they have...)) they stay quiet so they have to explode here.

 

Same negativity happened with JiME and today's is one of the best sellers for FFG. Follow the sales, not the comments of the same 4-5 old grumpy guys.

Edited by Raizox

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I like how the bad guys have integrated colored markers to indicate which which group they belong to and which figure number they are. This is super helpful when you've got multiples of the same type of enemy on the map. 

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12 hours ago, Raizox said:

Ignore the negativity. This forum is full of it because all D2E hardcore fans expected a 3rd Edition of the same game. After a few month they won't be around here.

Also, Today's internet is full of people complaining about everything. I guess that in their real life (job, friends, gf (if they have...)) they stay quiet so they have to explode here.

 

Same negativity happened with JaiME and today's is one of the best sellers for FFG. Follow the sales, not the comments of the same 4-5 old grumpy guys.

 

It's currently around 40% favorable 60% (bgg poll echoing this) not which isn't too bad considering all the personal preference targets such a game is aiming for, and I agree we are in quite a moany age :)

 

I don't mind them using the Descent name- for me it is still worthy of it it's just different in some ways and it won't change the awesomeness of the other Terrinoth in my collection, I think the fanbase that was wanting 3e judges it on that basis. We need to remember some people really don't like the overlord mode just as much as others love it, likewise apps the other way, maybe FFG are planning on catering for both preferences in each case as my feeling is if not it could just have been promoted as third edition but the overlord and app-less-ness are no more, if like some of us you like all variants 2e can scratch some itches, 'legends' others. Plus I'm sure 2e is still selling.

 

Also, maybe just maybe, a 3e would take a lot more work and be riskier so 'legends' is the test dungeon as well as its own thing- can we go all out with a 3e?

 

The criticism barrage isn't totally bad though- again the test dungeon theory might mean it leads to a better future iteration of 'journeys' (where both products may remain) BUT too much, too harsh and too nasty and too many people decide out, FFG thinks nobody loves the setting any more, and no more Terrinoth games potentially - remember also real humans with you know feelings and stuff have worked on this, as someone (still) working on fan projects / helping others with theirs it's not easy at all and there can be so so much hate and so much pitfall/challenge re what works best- everything can't be perfect for everyone with every element.

 

Flipside too I guess sometimes we can be quite full on critical (even me) if we're really passionate about and invested in something so for the development meeples- don't take it all too much to heart, for all the negativity there's plenty of the opposite and a lot of good work has gone into this and I remain excited to play this and more 'journeys' and Battlelore and Genesys in Terrinoth......... in the future

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14 hours ago, Raizox said:

Ignore the negativity. This forum is full of it because all D2E hardcore fans expected a 3rd Edition of the same game. After a few month they won't be around here.

Also, Today's internet is full of people complaining about everything. I guess that in their real life (job, friends, gf (if they have...)) they stay quiet so they have to explode here.

 

Same negativity happened with JaiME and today's is one of the best sellers for FFG. Follow the sales, not the comments of the same 4-5 old grumpy guys.

Blind fanboying is just as disruptive to the community. Nothing like shutting down everyone who doesn't agree with you so you can blindly sing kumbaya. People have legitimate issues with the game. Despite what you may think, this is the sort of feedback companies want, not "OMG it's amazing and perfect ignore everyone else!!!1!!!".

FYI - I thought JiME was boring, had terrible art, and just recycled the same old race against the clock app from Descent 2e. Hard pass. 

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14 hours ago, Raizox said:

Ignore the negativity. This forum is full of it because all D2E hardcore fans expected a 3rd Edition of the same game. After a few month they won't be around here.

Also, Today's internet is full of people complaining about everything. I guess that in their real life (job, friends, gf (if they have...)) they stay quiet so they have to explode here.

 

Same negativity happened with JaiME and today's is one of the best sellers for FFG. Follow the sales, not the comments of the same 4-5 old grumpy guys.

I never play 1st or 2nd edition of descent. I simply use to love this publisher and i was waiting this new game and hoping to see something good, whatever the ip. 

Objectivle speaking this is a bad product. Im tired of explain every weak point on this, inthink the images and description speaks by himself.

 

Check there no "4 or 5" old grumpys, theres the majority of people complaining bout a videogame with toys for 175 bucks.

 

Sure, theres another games, we

move on of course, but this art and marketing direction is to be worried bout the future of Terrinoth and FFG.

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3 hours ago, Alcovitch said:

Blind fanboying is just as disruptive to the community. Nothing like shutting down everyone who doesn't agree with you so you can blindly sing kumbaya. People have legitimate issues with the game. Despite what you may think, this is the sort of feedback companies want, not "OMG it's amazing and perfect ignore everyone else!!!1!!!".

FYI - I thought JiME was boring, had terrible art, and just recycled the same old race against the clock app from Descent 2e. Hard pass. 

So know telling you all have daddy issues and that's why you're moaning 24/7 here about almost everything, and if we don't do it we are just fanboys? Haahahahaha.

- The Art for me is pretty meh, but not that bad. But yes, I prefered the art in D2E

- Also the tiles are more poor than in D2E, but I also get they decided that in order to make them more modular.

- The characters shown are pretty meh as well. Hope they release more blisters and expansions with better characters.

 

So no, not a fanboy here, and I can be critic with some aspects of what they shown, but that doesn't mean I have to complain about things than then in other games I stay quiet (ehem GloomHavem ehem). I expected a Dungeon Crawler app based because in my personal experience the Overlord mechanic was one of the worst things of the game. Until they released RdL, everytime I wanted to play with my friends someone had to be forced to play as Overlord because no one wanted. Also, the mechanic was unbalanced as ****.

I also wanted grid-based and dices (which I didn't get it from JiME).

Finally it seems to be more focused on RPG aspects so, for me, it's a WIN. But that doesn't mean I will like every aspect of it.

 

"FYI - I thought JiME was boring, had terrible art, and just recycled the same old race against the clock app from Descent 2e. Hard pass. "

See what I say? Same criticism and negativity JiME received and today is one of the best sellers. This forum isn't a representation of the whole community, just of the old grumpy dudes who spend their lives complaining about everything on the internet. That's all.

 

Edited by Raizox

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2 hours ago, ringofox said:

I never play 1st or 2nd edition of descent. I simply use to love this publisher and i was waiting this new game and hoping to see something good, whatever the ip. 

Objectivle speaking this is a bad product. Im tired of explain every weak point on this, inthink the images and description speaks by himself.

 

Check there no "4 or 5" old grumpys, theres the majority of people complaining bout a videogame with toys for 175 bucks.

 

Sure, theres another games, we

move on of course, but this art and marketing direction is to be worried bout the future of Terrinoth and FFG.

And you keep trying to explain your wet paper, no one cares about your opinion because it doesn't have any value since you haven't tried the game, no one has, so it's pointless saying it's a bad game if you haven't see not even a demo of it. You can say you don't like the art, you don't like the app-driven feature or every other aspect regarding its looks, but your opinion about the gameplay isn't there so no point on saying it's a bad game, and this is why no one is reading your and you have to repeat it over and over again expecting that some day people will see your opinion as something relevant.

 

"Check there no "4 or 5" old grumpys, theres the majority of people complaining bout a videogame with toys for 175 bucks."

 

I don't have to check everything. I've been reading this forum for 2 years and I'm pretty aware about the negativity that goes around here. Right now if you only read this forum and have no contact with the outside you would thing that FFG is going to collapse because all their games are bad. The reality is that this is just a biased place. As I said in previous post, JiME had the same or even more negativity during its release, all the forums were full of people saying that the game was about to fail, bad mechanics, bad art, "Boo app-driven", "boo no dices", "Boo odd tiles", etc, etc. But, what is the reality? Is one of the best sellers of FFG right know, admited by themselves and with a solid roadmap on future content.

So no my friend, even though there is a majority of people here (I see it more like minorities making so much noise), you are irrelevant, for me and of course for FFG, they know their audience better than you, and that's why we don't really care about you or your opinion. So please, keep brining your daddy or bully issues here, it's so much fun to read.

Edited by Raizox

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1 hour ago, Raizox said:

And you keep trying to explain your wet paper, no one cares about your opinion because it doesn't have any value since you haven't tried the game, no one has, so it's pointless saying it's a bad game if you haven't see not even a demo of it. You can say you don't like the art, you don't like the app-driven feature or every other aspect regarding its looks, but your opinion about the gameplay isn't there so no point on saying it's a bad game, and this is why no one is reading your and you have to repeat it over and over again expecting that some day people will see your opinion as something relevant.

 

"Check there no "4 or 5" old grumpys, theres the majority of people complaining bout a videogame with toys for 175 bucks."

 

I don't have to check everything. I've been reading this forum for 2 years and I'm pretty aware about the negativity that goes around here. Right now if you only read this forum and have no contact with the outside you would thing that FFG is going to collapse because all their games are bad. The reality is that this is just a biased place. As I said in previous post, JiME had the same or even more negativity during its release, all the forums were full of people saying that the game was about to fail, bad mechanics, bad art, "Boo app-driven", "boo no dices", "Boo odd tiles", etc, etc. But, what is the reality? Is one of the best sellers of FFG right know, admited by themselves and with a solid roadmap on future content.

So no my friend, even though there is a majority of people here (I see it more like minorities making so much noise), you are irrelevant, for me and of course for FFG, they know their audience better than you, and that's why we don't really care about you or your opinion. So please, keep brining your daddy or bully issues here, it's so much fun to read.

Calm down and read first before write. I didnt say "this is a Bad Game" i say "this is a bad product". Its very different. And is why a lot of people are is worried, cause we know this publisher, and we see how they take wrong desitions based in DO NOT HEAR what some fans have to say. They only hear the blind fanboys. 

That being said, i understand that this publisher has games for different personalities, and this is not for me, luckily. But at the same time i can have my opinion on this as you have yours.

Edited by ringofox

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35 minutes ago, Raizox said:

So please, keep brining your daddy or bully issues here, it's so much fun to read.

Hahaha!

Now i understand everything.

You already loose all your credibility.

🙂

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7 hours ago, ringofox said:

I never play 1st or 2nd edition of descent. I simply use to love this publisher and i was waiting this new game and hoping to see something good, whatever the ip. 

Objectivle speaking this is a bad product. Im tired of explain every weak point on this, inthink the images and description speaks by himself.

 

Check there no "4 or 5" old grumpys, theres the majority of people complaining bout a videogame with toys for 175 bucks.

 

Sure, theres another games, we

move on of course, but this art and marketing direction is to be worried bout the future of Terrinoth and FFG.

I’m not trying to be rude, but I don’t think you understand what “objectively” means.  What you are describing is ‘subjective’.  Objective refers to demonstrable fact; something beyond personal opinion.  Subjective refers to views based on your feelings and opinions.  For example, stating this game is APP-driven is an objective statement.  Stating the art is poor is a subjective statement.

 

in addition, claiming a ‘majority of people’ based on forums is generally a fallacy.  The online community, and especially negative posters tend to be more widely represented than the overall consumer base.  This can be seen quite often with video games and movies that gain large scale online negativity, but still succeed upon release.

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As someone who owns and has enjoyed both MoM and JiME I am looking forward to an APP-based dungeon crawler.  I’ve owned a few overlord-driven games including Descent and they just never hit the table often.  I personally didn’t like playing the overlord, and I found it often difficult to teach a new player the role or get others interested as most seemed to want to play hero roles.

 

Personally I really like the art style, reminds me of a retro fantasy/anime blend.  The miniatures are gorgeous, and I don’t have much issue with the more standardized tiles.  Sometimes a board can start to be too busy, although I do think Super Dungeon Explore has some funky tiles without going overboard.  I tend to ignore what’s happening on the JiME tiles, although that may be more due to the scale.

 

I’m not sure I totally understand the flipping mechanics, but I’m open to trying something new.  The thing I find can make a dungeon crawler dull is when your actions are all too straightforward and obvious.  Would love to get some varied choices.

 

Overall I am quite optimistic with what I’ve seen so far.  I do hope expansions bring some more non-humanoid monsters.  JiME is a bit limited to having a lot of goblins and orcs, Descent can introduce a much larger range of creatures.

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23 hours ago, Raizox said:

Ignore the negativity. This forum is full of it because all D2E hardcore fans expected a 3rd Edition of the same game. After a few month they won't be around.

Actually the hardcore fans didn't want 3rd because that kills play in 2nd. The assurances that it's not are meant to placate the hardcore fans.

"Same negativity happened with JiME and today's is one of the best sellers for FFG. Follow the sales, not the comments of the same 4-5 old grumpy guys."

There is something to that, go to the 1st ed forums. There's still a handful trashing 2nd. 

That said there were a bunch of people who were excited that aren't anymore. Some of it was bound to happen, over loosing the overlord, having to use an app and whatnot.

But a lot of people seem put off by the quality of the art and that does seem like an unforced error.

Edited by Bucho

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Finally no more of those stupid annoying to sort through puzzle tiles!

Mansions of Madness got away with the full art map tiles because it only uses 3 sizes but IA? Even with the app speeding a lot of things up looking for some of the map pieces would slow the game right down. 

The artstyle of this is also very nice. If seems sort of... Supergiant-y. :)

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9 hours ago, Raizox said:

So know telling you all have daddy issues and that's why you're moaning 24/7 here about almost everything, and if we don't do it we are just fanboys? Haahahahaha.

- The Art for me is pretty meh, but not that bad. But yes, I prefered the art in D2E

- Also the tiles are more poor than in D2E, but I also get they decided that in order to make them more modular.

- The characters shown are pretty meh as well. Hope they release more blisters and expansions with better characters.

 

So no, not a fanboy here, and I can be critic with some aspects of what they shown, but that doesn't mean I have to complain about things than then in other games I stay quiet (ehem GloomHavem ehem). I expected a Dungeon Crawler app based because in my personal experience the Overlord mechanic was one of the worst things of the game. Until they released RdL, everytime I wanted to play with my friends someone had to be forced to play as Overlord because no one wanted. Also, the mechanic was unbalanced as ****.

I also wanted grid-based and dices (which I didn't get it from JiME).

Finally it seems to be more focused on RPG aspects so, for me, it's a WIN. But that doesn't mean I will like every aspect of it.

 

"FYI - I thought JiME was boring, had terrible art, and just recycled the same old race against the clock app from Descent 2e. Hard pass. "

See what I say? Same criticism and negativity JiME received and today is one of the best sellers. This forum isn't a representation of the whole community, just of the old grumpy dudes who spend their lives complaining about everything on the internet. That's all.

 

Best sellers by who's metric? Seriously where are you getting that? Most of JiME recycled the art assets (lets avoid having to pay New Line Cinema royalties art) from their LCG LOTR game.  It uses the same exact app and mechanics for the most part as all their other app games because they developed the games around the same old tired app at this point. It's also overpriced and has pretty bad tile art (like Descent LOTD)

Daddy issues? Dude, you lost the plot completely. 

And I guess I hit a nerve cause your reaction is comical over reaction. 

Good day. 

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2 hours ago, Polda said:

Finally no more of those stupid annoying to sort through puzzle tiles!

Mansions of Madness got away with the full art map tiles because it only uses 3 sizes but IA? Even with the app speeding a lot of things up looking for some of the map pieces would slow the game right down. 

The artstyle of this is also very nice. If seems sort of... Supergiant-y. :)

You know you could have full art tiles like in D2e and just make the shape of the tiles generic? They'd look better, and be more modular. 

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6 minutes ago, rugal said:

I'm really curious to see how much and how well this game could sold. That would help me to see if I must change hobby or not

Rugal, you've been around for awhile - longer than a lot of us.  I'd hate to think that something like this would put you off a hobby you are truly passionate about.  I get that this is disappointing to you - and no blame there, the expectations were high and so were the hopes.  Anywho, I am honestly not trying to bait you when I say that this will all level out. 

  For my sons and I, after we finish our Folklore Campaign, we are jumping back in to 2e 1vsMany which is in no way diminished by the Legends in the Dark.  Who knows?  Perhaps the success of Legends, if it ends up that way - and I hope so for the designers - it will reinvigorate the entire Terrinoth IP in ways that will good for all of us.

Hang in there!  But I'll apologize if this note is unwelcome. 

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14 minutes ago, Cotgrave said:

Rugal, you've been around for awhile - longer than a lot of us.  I'd hate to think that something like this would put you off a hobby you are truly passionate about.  I get that this is disappointing to you - and no blame there, the expectations were high and so were the hopes.  Anywho, I am honestly not trying to bait you when I say that this will all level out. 

  For my sons and I, after we finish our Folklore Campaign, we are jumping back in to 2e 1vsMany which is in no way diminished by the Legends in the Dark.  Who knows?  Perhaps the success of Legends, if it ends up that way - and I hope so for the designers - it will reinvigorate the entire Terrinoth IP in ways that will good for all of us.

Hang in there!  But I'll apologize if this note is unwelcome. 

Your opinion is welcome. Maybe you are right, but less made me ran away from video games.

I may continue to play but as films and vidéo games I will play no more than 1 or 2 new ones a year ans focus and old but greater games

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35 minutes ago, rugal said:

focus and old but greater games

This is amazing, and only can be achieved by board games.

You only need an stupid update of software, or incopatibility between hardware and software, or just simply dont have electricity and you cant play any of this hybrid antique trendy-for-a-short-time games.

We all need toncome back to the great old ones. Hours and hours of fun... actually, we need to buy less, and play more!

Sorry for the offtopic.

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