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Trifighter vs. TIE Interceptor

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Is it strange if I say I don't think Independent Calculations looks all that amazing on Tri-fighters?  Having to take a stress to gain that 2nd Calculate token means it'll prevent you from doing a movement action linked into a token. You'll have the hard 2-3, plus the 2-3-4 straight, and just tokens.  Even with nice tokens, a 3/3/3 ship seems like it'll really need to keep it's mobility at peak in order to survive.

Sure, probably worth buying if you've only got 1, maybe 2 in a list.  But on something like 3 or more Fearsome Predators or generics, I think I probably want to lean into the strength they have over other interceptor-type ships: that they can share tokens.

One big strength to a Fang, for example, is that, after a parking lot happens in the midgame, they've still got passive mods (defense and often offense).  Tris might sometimes have this, too.  If even just one ship lands clean, that's a huge benefit to the squaddies who didn't and are without tokens.  One calculate for a handfull of Tri-Fighters isn't going to go very far, but it's more than Independent Calculations is going to get.  It can mean the difference between dying before shooting and getting a shot at all.

Edited by theBitterFig

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10 hours ago, theBitterFig said:

Is it strange if I say I don't think Independent Calculations looks all that amazing on Tri-fighters?  Having to take a stress to gain that 2nd Calculate token means it'll prevent you from doing a movement action linked into a token. You'll have the hard 2-3, plus the 2-3-4 straight, and just tokens.  Even with nice tokens, a 3/3/3 ship seems like it'll really need to keep it's mobility at peak in order to survive.

Sure, probably worth buying if you've only got 1, maybe 2 in a list.  But on something like 3 or more Fearsome Predators or generics, I think I probably want to lean into the strength they have over other interceptor-type ships: that they can share tokens.

One big strength to a Fang, for example, is that, after a parking lot happens in the midgame, they've still got passive mods (defense and often offense).  Tris might sometimes have this, too.  If even just one ship lands clean, that's a huge benefit to the squaddies who didn't and are without tokens.  One calculate for a handfull of Tri-Fighters isn't going to go very far, but it's more than Independent Calculations is going to get.  It can mean the difference between dying before shooting and getting a shot at all.

Independent calculations will be great on ships that want to operate independently. The dial is really solid, it's going to be able to clear the stress and it doesn't prohibit you from keeping the mobility up really.

That said, I very much agree with you that as you increase networked calculations ships, you decrease the desire to take independent calcs.

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4 minutes ago, dsul413 said:

Independent calculations will be great on ships that want to operate independently. The dial is really solid, it's going to be able to clear the stress and it doesn't prohibit you from keeping the mobility up really.

That said, I very much agree with you that as you increase networked calculations ships, you decrease the desire to take independent calcs.

I guess I'm just trying to think about stuff from a broader listbuilding view.  I could imagine a double I5 + [trim Maul or Firespray] + [Belbullab Pocket Ace that wants but probably can't afford Kraken] list, where IndC seems good, but if it was a 3 Hyenas with ordnance and 3 Tri-fighters, NetC just seems better...  Like, in a vacuum, it's not a bad upgrade.  I just don't know whether it's a great idea for many lists to equip it.

And specifically for Tri-fighters.  Again, their statline means they'll probably live and die by mobility.  A TIE Interceptor that doesn't reposition and just does a single focus isn't very impressive, and while 2x Calc is slightly better, it's not *that* much better.  As I said, might as well include it, but the cases where it's amazing might not be too common.

IndC seems like a better upgrade for, say, a Hyena.  Enough health to justify purchasing an upgrade, but also a ship that doesn't *need* hyper mobility to stay alive; they won't be squished by a single bad defense roll.  Just seems like a better fit for what a Hyena wants to do, and a Hyena can probably leverage the upgrade better.

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I agree with you @theBitterFig - my only slight counter is that IndC allows you to "token up" better than you normally would if you can't reposition out and you're in a list archetype that doesn't support NetC. I can see these flying with Nantex, flying with gunships, flying with a Scimitar and not taking advantage of NetC - and having an option in those is great. To your point about the Hyena, I think it can absolutely leverage it better.

Edited by dsul413

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2 hours ago, FriendofYoda said:

Do understand this tbf.

Sure.  But there are also people that complain about having to buy expansions for a full game experience.  I've got no interest in the game at all but want FFG to keep making $ so they keep making X-Wing.

And some new Imperial Assault campaigns would be wizard too.

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Trifighter.  We can't just remove the list.  Trifighter combos with relays, can get DRKs for early locks, can use tokens from other trifighters or disposable ships, has access to actually pretty good missiles, can use Sear, can even be coordinated by 32c at the start of engagement.  Trifighter just has a better list that pushes it into another tier. 

-

Outside of the faction, the ships are kind of interchangable.  Part of the argument for interceptors is double repo, but that only really gets the best value on the higher I pilots.  Hard 2 blue with a linked boost + Calc is honestly great for shaking stress and, for an I3 or lower, is more than enough do do what you need.  Roll + Evade is fine-ish on it's own, but can make the trifighter pretty hard to kill if it has an Calcs from things like relays or other ships.  Calc is certainly more of a problem on a 3 AGL 3 ATK ship than a 2 AGL 2 ATK ship, but it's not even really to the point where you'll notice most games unless you're spamming the ships.  So the interceptor just in a vaccum has a narrow, but definable, edge over the Trifighter, but add in the faction and the fight is just over. 

-

In Star Wars Legion, CIS has better vehicles than most other factions, but only partly because the vehicles themselves are good.  What really makes them great is that STAPs and AATs easily fit into and facilitate CIS lists whereas most vehicels just kind of exist in the same place as a list that has little for them and this is where I really think the Trifighter has so much more potential with the factions as they are currently than the TIE Interceptor could ever really hope to.

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8 hours ago, MasterShake2 said:

Trifighter.  We can't just remove the list.  Trifighter combos with relays, can get DRKs for early locks, can use tokens from other trifighters or disposable ships, has access to actually pretty good missiles, can use Sear, can even be coordinated by 32c at the start of engagement.  Trifighter just has a better list that pushes it into another tier. 

-

Outside of the faction, the ships are kind of interchangable.  Part of the argument for interceptors is double repo, but that only really gets the best value on the higher I pilots.  Hard 2 blue with a linked boost + Calc is honestly great for shaking stress and, for an I3 or lower, is more than enough do do what you need.  Roll + Evade is fine-ish on it's own, but can make the trifighter pretty hard to kill if it has an Calcs from things like relays or other ships.  Calc is certainly more of a problem on a 3 AGL 3 ATK ship than a 2 AGL 2 ATK ship, but it's not even really to the point where you'll notice most games unless you're spamming the ships.  So the interceptor just in a vaccum has a narrow, but definable, edge over the Trifighter, but add in the faction and the fight is just over. 

-

In Star Wars Legion, CIS has better vehicles than most other factions, but only partly because the vehicles themselves are good.  What really makes them great is that STAPs and AATs easily fit into and facilitate CIS lists whereas most vehicels just kind of exist in the same place as a list that has little for them and this is where I really think the Trifighter has so much more potential with the factions as they are currently than the TIE Interceptor could ever really hope to.

Good points, I even think the double repositioning for interceptors are less valuable in 2.0 as there often are way more ships in a list, so even if you dodge a ship or two, chances are the opponent has your escape routes covered. green dice have been nerfed and if you double repoed, you are probably tokenless and will die because green dice are cruel heartless things.

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Never mind, read the card again, you can't use calculates from Vultures.

 

Wouldn't  Independent Calculations be good on Vultures/Hyenas supporting Tri-Fighters? You can take 2 calculates on Vulture, and boost/roll into calculate on Tri-fighter. And Tri-fighters can still use Vultures calculates, because they have Networked Calculations.

 

 

Edited by Boreas Mun

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On 10/22/2020 at 6:25 PM, Silver_leader said:

Interceptor:

- I6 Soontir

- Double reposition

That is pratically what will make that Soontir will win a battle alone against 2 trifighters.

If the trifighter gets the initiative, I am still not sure it would win, only because of the double reposition possibility of the interceptor

And talent slots. How valuable it is depends on the format, but don't underestimate the value of it as it's an upgrade type no CIS droid has access to. Certainly, if you're thinking of Soontir, something like Daredevil is a cheap upgrade that can really boost his ability to swing his bullseye arc around.

I'm pretty sure in a 1v1, the equivalent squint pilot is better. In a swarm, I'd much rather have the Tri-Fighter, as  - whilst you're right that they won't fly in a big swarm, even wingman pairs means network calculation is a thing.  Also, as noted, you should probably assume there's a tactical relay of some kind on the field. 

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1 hour ago, Magnus Grendel said:

And talent slots.

The Tri-Fighter expansion does come with a talent upgrade. while this could be like Afterburner for the Fang Fighter or Targeting Computer for the Nantex, there is a possibility that these could be the first CIS droids with a talent slot.

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14 hours ago, Bravo Null said:

One of the Nantex Pilots can use the TC. 

True, but Gorgol's modification slot was added after the initial release. 

The intercept booster does look nice, too. Depends what it costs, obviously, but a few turns of cheap SLAM on an interceptor-esque chassis means you should be able to control the initial engagement geometry very well. Especially the Prototypes, who can in theory use Probe Droid-enabled locks to sneak a peak at someone's dial, so in addition to an impressive initiative 5 even have a pretty good answer to an initiative 6 opponent. 

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22 hours ago, 5050Saint said:

The Tri-Fighter expansion does come with a talent upgrade. while this could be like Afterburner for the Fang Fighter or Targeting Computer for the Nantex, there is a possibility that these could be the first CIS droids with a talent slot.

My X-Wing conspiracy theory is the Nantex was supposed to release with 1 if not 2 Modification slots, but in playtesting it was shown to broken, so they cut the slots, but after the ship had gone to the printers.

Edited by theBitterFig

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3 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

My X-Wing conspiracy theory is the Nantex was supposed to release with 1 if not 2 Modification slots, but in playtesting it was shown to broken, so they cut the slots, but after the ship had gone to the printers.

This seems likely to me (same with the Fang probably), one can hope they figure out some way to make the ship playable and not broken...

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57 minutes ago, RejjeN said:

This seems likely to me (same with the Fang probably), one can hope they figure out some way to make the ship playable and not broken...

The basic Nantex chassis is fine - once you take Ensnare out of the equation it's not a million miles from a Seperatist version of the resistance RZ-2 - it's just far too cheap (for the moment). 

I wouldn't be surprised if specific limited Tri-Fighters have a talent slot - much like the 'command variant' Hyeena.

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2 hours ago, Magnus Grendel said:

The basic Nantex chassis is fine - once you take Ensnare out of the equation it's not a million miles from a Seperatist version of the resistance RZ-2 - it's just far too cheap (for the moment). 

I wouldn't be surprised if specific limited Tri-Fighters have a talent slot - much like the 'command variant' Hyeena.

I'd take an RZ-2 100% of the time if they were the same cost, considering they have 0 repositioning without tractoring themselves, and without ensnare 2 of their pilots do nothing... Which is why I think they need to be reworked, not just repointed.

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7 minutes ago, RejjeN said:

I'd take an RZ-2 100% of the time if they were the same cost, considering they have 0 repositioning without tractoring themselves, and without ensnare 2 of their pilots do nothing... Which is why I think they need to be reworked, not just repointed.

Truth. If there was a I4 generic RZ-2 at 30 points, I'd 100% take it. I'd do it even at 34 points. But as you said, even with points adjusted, there is a fundamental problem with the Pinpoint Tractor Array. It has caused tractor rules to be changes 3 times already. That should have been a red flag to start.

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37 minutes ago, 5050Saint said:

Truth. If there was a I4 generic RZ-2 at 30 points, I'd 100% take it. I'd do it even at 34 points. But as you said, even with points adjusted, there is a fundamental problem with the Pinpoint Tractor Array. It has caused tractor rules to be changes 3 times already. That should have been a red flag to start.

Again, most of those (such as the rotate-after-being-tractored effect) were a result of Ensnare, though, not PPTA.

Anyway - not really relevant. So yeah. Trifighter vs Squint.

It's also worth noting that the biggest advantage of the squint - Soontir - is currently locked out of Hyperspace squad selection (one assumes the Droid pilots will at least initially all be available). Since the highest initiative pilot is Turr Phennir (4), it's actually the droids who have the initiative advantage, having access to a pair of I5 pilots. Pair that with the insane flexibility of a high-speed dial and a white SLAM to control positioning for the opening round, and the interceptor will have serious issues in the matchup. 

 

Edited by Magnus Grendel

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On 10/23/2020 at 10:44 AM, 5050Saint said:

Also, two calcs are better when considering offense and defense. If you have one focus, that you are pondering on spending for defense, but want to keep it offense, you have a conundrum. When you have 2 calcs, it is and easier decision to spend the one calc on defense, saving the other for offense. The times you only need to turn one eyeball result are significant.

Once again I would like to point out that low-initiative ships face no such conundrums.

Alpha Squadron Forever!

When will they nerf Sloane so I can be off-meta again?

Edited by ClassicalMoser

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