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Cpt ObVus

Help me figure out the Republic.

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Maybe this belongs in the List Building subforum, but I feel like this is a pretty general topic, and more people than me may want to see it. So:

I’m having trouble with the Republic. I’ve managed to build and play pretty strong lists with literally ALL of the other factions, and I’ve been the victim of at least one good Republic list that basically featured several CLT Jedi (can’t remember which ones, but they were all unique, high-initiative, and seemingly impossible to hit. I do remember I was playing a list that felt like an absolutely putrid matchup, and also rolled badly). 

So I definitely understand the value and power of the Delta-7. But what I’m not particularly interested in is just jamming Delta-7’s all day. The faction has a pretty diverse collection of ships, and I’ve tried a bunch of them, but aside from Ric Olie and the i5 & i6 Deltas, I find myself a bit mystified by the Republic pieces. Let me list my difficulties, and maybe you guys can give me some pointers:

1. V-19 Torrent

This thing is terrible, right? The dial is one of the worst in the game. It picks up stress like crazy, and has a **** of a time shedding it. No shields means critical hits are devastating; Panicked Pilot essentially kills it. But at least it has good agili... no, that’s bad, too. Guns? Weak. The cheapest generic costs three more points than the far more effective and survivable Academy TIE. The uniques are... okaaaay, I guess, some of them, but for as horrid as the base chassis is, I find myself hard-pressed to put even a single point more than is absolutely necessary into one of these... though I did try Odd Ball recently, alongside Ric, Plo, and a 212 with 7FG, and Oddy was kind of a rock star; his ability went off a couple of times and he pumped out good damage for a couple turns, until he did a K-turn, got hit with Panicked Pilot, and was basically dead in space.

What the **** do you do with this?

 

2. BTL-B Y-Wing

I get Y-Wings. This thing is probably OK, and I picture it as a torpedo boat, but it suffers a bit from not having Dutch around to hand off locks. So yeah, there’s Synchronized Console, but part of the reason I find that hard to use is because of one of the basic difficulties I have with this faction in general: Without Passive Sensors, Locks are easiest to get with high-initiative pilots, and Odd Ball, in his various incarnations, is the only i5 pilot for MOST of the ships (If they make another Odd Ball for the V-Wing, I’m gonna freak out). So no problem, right? Just use Odd Ball... but he’s kind of overpriced, and just fits awkwardly into the list Tetris. And that’s not even considering that I may be using him on an ARC-170 or Torrent already. 

And I’ve tried Y-Wing Anakin, and holy ****, he got absolutely mauled by StarVipers, which were just one of the many ships that are waaaay too maneuverable to fight with Y-Wings, no matter what your initiative is. He wasn’t even a little bit worth it. Granted, he did recently get a massive points drop, but he still feels like a trap to me.

 

3. N-1 Fighter

This one, I have very little experience with. Ric Olie is the only one I’ve flown, and I flew him with R2-A6, and he was awesome. No complaints at all. He even more or less felt like he was worth the points I put into him, with free Evades and extra dice... he was good. But the other N-1’s look to be sort of mediocre. Ellberger seems okay, but i3? Yeesh. That gets you killed by most of the game’s mediocre wanna-be aces. Not a good spot to be. I’m kind of intrigued by the Handmaiden’s Decoy mechanic, but they seem to fragile to make it worth it.

 

4. Delta-7

I guess this thing is the big draw of the faction, but I don’t really want to just fly i4-i6 Jedi with Calibrated Laser Targeting all day.

 

5. ARC-170

I actually kind of like this ship, but I feel like a Gunner is kind of necessary, and most of them are kind of expensive, and that leaves this thing floating in a real awkward spot, points wise. All the uniques become waaay more than 50 points, and that, again, is a big problem I have with the faction: Everything that seems decent seems to also cost 55+ points, which leaves large, awkward holes in my lists, and since I try not to do the, “oh well, this fits, so I play it” thing with upgrades, I end up with very weird little holes that I end up jamming V-19/Y-Wing generics into, and they don’t work that well. 

 

6. LAAT/i 

I like this thing’s basic ship ability, and I like that it’s kind of tanky, but the pieces it’s left to support just... suck. Fire Convergence doesn’t work with turrets, so turret-reliant Y-Wing builds are out, which means Torpedoes if you wanna use Y’s, and see above. Ric and Delta-7’s leave this thing in the dust pretty easily. And then there are Torrents, and again, see above. Beyond all of that, there are things you fight in X-Wing that you just cannot hit with 2 dice with any kind of reliability, unless you bring A LOT of 2-die guns, and again, just the way Republic lists Tetris together, I have a lot of trouble fitting more than about three ships into a list without relying on V-19’s, and oh man are they awful.

That leaves ARC-170’s as the only Republic ship which reliably attacks with 3 dice, but again, they’re just expensive enough to fit very awkwardly into most of the lists I build.

So I guess the big problem I have with the Republic is that there are no options I have any confidence in at the 20-35 point range, and that sort of limits me to 3 or fewer ships, since all the good stuff is 50+ points. Or I jam terrible generics.

Help! What am I failing to understand about the Republic? Is this faction even usable outside of the Delta-7?

Thanks in advance!

 

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Torrents, y-wings, and arcs are all cheap. The Jedi are agile, fast, and have lots of passive mods through the force.

For a while, Sinker swarms were solid lists. Sinker, 4 torrents, and a sixth ship (could be something like another arc, Ric, or Luminara) were beefy and had consistent offense. It might not match up very well against a high agility swarm meta, but it was a good, consistent squad that won several events. I think Warthog will replace Sinker for avoiding initiative killed torrents now.

It also turns out that Republic y-wings are cheaper than their Rebel and Scum counterparts. You can fly 5-6 generics with turrets, bombs, and astromechs/torpedoes.

3 generic arcs + a Jedi (usually Obi Wan) is also a good list for Republic beef.

You also have a lot of good ships that are around 50 points, and many permutations of 4 ship Republic lists exist. You generally won't go wrong with some combination of Jedi, Broadside with an ion cannon turret (ridiculously consistent ions), Wolffe, or Anakin in the N1 with passive sensors and a torpedo.

If you really want to fly Jedi but don't want an "ace" list with 3-4 ships, you can fly 5 of the generics with CLT or 4 + Broadside. Even with 1 force and lower initiative, the Jedi Knights are a great value on an excellent chassis.

Also, just generally, many of the synergy upgrades are point sinks and not worth the cost. 2 Dedicated torrents are good wingmen for Jedi though.

 

 

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V-19s aren't bad, just have to be worked with right. There's a reason Sinker Swarm was so successful for a while. They can be tougher to take down than a Zed and in capable hands stress stops being an issue. Mine were rarely stressed because I so rarely allowed them to do anything that would stress them. Just drift away and long turn back if you have to.

N-1 is Garbo. You got Ric, which is good, and Lil'Ani is a close second of you want to try him out. You can until further notice ignore everything else in the pack honestly. Dinee is not too be even mentioned she's so bad. At best passive sensor+advanced protons on a Bravo is almost okay filler. Even showed up in some mid range tourney lists. Emphasis on mid-range.

The only thing I can suggest for Republic is that the faction identity seemed to be to Force you to mix archetypes in support of Jedi, or just be Jedi in general. It's not supposed to be list builder friendly in so many ways, it's rather annoying.

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14 minutes ago, Des Darklighter said:

Also, just generally, many of the synergy upgrades are point sinks and not worth the cost.

I just can't seem to get good mileage out of Dedicated and Sync console and I feel like the whole faction is founded around the idea that those are much better upgrades than I can turn them into at any rate. 

 

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I have run multiple Arcs to good effect, in both 3 of and 4 of lists. You really don't need a Gunner on your Arcs; run naked generics, Oddball with Kit Fisto, or maaaaaaybe a VTG Wolffe.

The LAAT/i is a beautiful support ship that can give very consistent dice. It makes a lot of other ships (mostly CLT Jedi and Arcs) hit much harder.

CLT Jedi I don't have much experience with, but, they're good as arc dodgers. I generally see them played as the Hammer, in a Hammer and Anvil list, where they can run if focused, while the Anvil punches like a dhmp truck.

Torrents are durable, but they're durable like cardboard is durable. They have their uses, and they can take surprising amounts of damage. Do not rely on them to deal damage, however, unless you're pairing them with Sinker, or a LAAT/i.

Y-Ions. That is all.

The V-Wing and ETA-2 will add some new stuff to the faction. The V-Wing looks to be a swift, budget interceptor type chassis. It should have high reliability, and a decent amount of control with the Ion, but, it won't be a true ace interceptor. I imagine that they'll make good "pocket ace" type ships.

The ETA-2 is a Squint on steroids. It's got tons of bizarre tricks, and but it's going to be a knife edge; this is one you almost definitely want to pair with either a heavy Anvil, or, it might be good in a Palp/Yoda Aces style list, where a support ship runs up the middle, and two ETA-2s try and fly circles around the enemy.

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Jedi + spam is a solid performing list. I have done pretty well with a few variations of Kenobi and some filler. Lastly, 4x CLT Jedi knights + Broadside is a solid archetype.

Laat + spam is also good. Sinker swarm was popular for a while too.

Torrents are good when used as a cheap formation block.

Arcs are solid gun ships. Use the generic or Wolffe. Or Sinker if you want to do a spam efficiency list.

N1 is the Ric or baby Ani expansion. Both are solid pilots; the rest are garbage once you look at the costs.

Laat is a decent support ship but is the new kid, we are working on figuring this one out.

Broadside is the only good Y. Use it as an ion control piece.

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34 minutes ago, Frimmel said:

I just can't seem to get good mileage out of Dedicated and Sync console and I feel like the whole faction is founded around the idea that those are much better upgrades than I can turn them into at any rate. 

 


Synchronized Console is an awful card, no doubt.  The question is whether it's the worst card in the game, or just one of the worst cards in the game.

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There's some gnarly looking LAAT´ lists in the squad list forum. It really seems like Republic has the new and improved Rebel Beef.

As for ARC gunners being too expensive, there's a bunch of great new gunners/crew in the LAAT pack, several look quite undercosted, especially Wolfpack.

I wonder when people are going to figure out that R2-D2 Y-wing can have double-tapping ion turret... coming in at 42 points.

I think there's a lot of new list design space opening up that's very interesting, and aside from brute force beef and force multiplier lists, we're going to see new and exciting salads.

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I played against 3 Plasma Ys and a Wolfpack LAAT the other day, Sync Console saw some good use there.

I think a general rule that applies to Reps more than most, is the old less is more deal. Whatever you put together, be light on upgrades. Take only what you need to make the list tick. If making it tick means loading something up, go back to the drawing board.

That feeds back into how you use the various ships. Keep them simple and lean into their natural strengths. Don't look at V-19s as more than chunky filler, perhaps with a missile if the list is built to enable that. ARCs are big health, big gun, clog and shoot the place up before they die. Ys pack a turret and/or bomb, just cover and control. Torpedoes have to be the centrepiece trick, if you go that route, which makes for limited flexibility.

N-1 and Delta are as mentioned already. Ace platforms or, in the case of Knights, good cheap interceptors. Most of the named Delta's can support a list nicely in the early stages, with their various abilities. Gives them some good uses while they do the cagey ace thing.

3 ship Rep lists are full ace. 4 has a number of good options and can do various fun things, but remember less is more when assembling the pieces. 5 is built around CLT Knights or V-19 filler. 6 is beef.

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(Casual)

I've had success with jedi ace on the flank with Jag (3p0) and Matchstick (Vet Turret Gunner/ion).  jedi and Jag had R3 and locked Matchstick. 

I like Sinker Swarm. 

I've had some success flying Torrents with syched console and homing missiles as complimentary pieces.

V19s as a whole require some practice to get used to the dial and getting your approach right so you don't need to stress to turn around (at least not with all).

I've had some difficulty finding LAAT builds I like.  I flew CLT Ani with Warthog (fives/cody) and 2 missile torrents.  Ani played bait the whole game while the clones just pounded stragglers. 

LAAT and 3 Arcs looks interesting.  As mentioned 4 ship builds are pretty easy to put together.  If I find myself with 2x ~60ish ships I usually throw in jedi Anakin to keep some of the pressure off heavy clones. 

 

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3 hours ago, Cpt ObVus said:

1. V-19 Torrent

This thing is terrible, right? The dial is one of the worst in the game.

What the **** do you do with this?

It's filler or a blocker.  When it released, it was a lot more impressive compared to stuff like M3-A Scyks and TIE/fo, who were both up around like 28 points.  Now that they're 25, the main selling point of the Torrent--that it trades mobility for high toughness--is kinda gone.  When it came out, regular TIEs and Z-95s were like 23-24 points, and this ship could fly worse, but gain a significant edge over similar kinds of ships.  Buffs to other ships have made the Gold Trooper no longer something truly special.

These days... I think the right pick is a Dedicated Blue.  Now it has a nifty little defensive buff for someone else in the squad.  At 27, that's pretty reasonable.

Also, Sinker Swarm is still decent.  4 Golds, Sinker, and some 6th ship (generic ARC or pocket ace).

3 hours ago, Cpt ObVus said:

2. BTL-B Y-Wing

Basic turret Y-Wings are fine.  Broadside is a great piece along side something like CLT Jedi.

Torpedoes... probably just not worth it.  I think some folks have done OK with a torpedo Anakin.  He's going to die, but he'll die being a sledgehammer, something Republic doesn't really have otherwise.

3 hours ago, Cpt ObVus said:

3. N-1 Fighter

Ric is solid.  Passive Sensors/Torpedo Anakin is solid.  The rest are overpriced trash.  FFG was careful to make sure the ship didn't exploit too heavily the Full Throttle effect, but they created a really hard to fly, really expensive ship that can barely contribute.

3 hours ago, Cpt ObVus said:

4. Delta-7

I guess this thing is the big draw of the faction, but I don’t really want to just fly i4-i6 Jedi with Calibrated Laser Targeting all day.

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3 hours ago, Cpt ObVus said:

5. ARC-170

I actually kind of like this ship, but I feel like a Gunner is kind of necessary, and most of them are kind of expensive, and that leaves this thing floating in a real awkward spot, points wise.

Just leave off the gunner.  The ARC is a pretty reasonable efficiency jouster.

Something like 2 ARCs, Broadside, and a 7B Jedi is a pretty solid sort of list.

3 hours ago, Cpt ObVus said:

6. LAAT/i 

I like this thing’s basic ship ability, and I like that it’s kind of tanky, but the pieces it’s left to support just... suck.

LAAT is new, so it's unproven and folks are figuring it out.

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The Republic does have some sources of frustration; the lack of 3 dice attacks and lack of non-Jedi, non-Odd Ball high initiative pilots being the most glaring items.  It also doesn't help that the faction upgrades and some abilities lean toward a Clone brotherhood making small sacrifices for the benefit of the group with a Jedi to lead them.  That's not a list building space well explored by other factions and can be difficult to jump into cold.  (Edit: Just to clarify me likey this design concept.)   I just want to add my own brain dribblings as an almost full time Republic player.  

1. Dedicated

Going with the theme of the Repulbic I'm starting off with this faction exclusive.  Now the Dedicated has dropped to 1 point a piece it can easily slot into lists.  It has won games for me, no question.  There have been times I've rolled another blank but on the whole my ships have stayed on the board far longer than they had any right to.  Yes, that generic now has a strain token but I just saved an Ace for a bit of damage and/or have given some incentive for my opponent to spread the damage around. 

2. Sychronized Console

The Republic specific upgrade for everyone.  Well, not you N-1 Naboo.  Kind of like Dedicated, SC is an upgrade that doesn't seem worth it until you see it played well.  Set up missile chains.  Pass locks from a ship with a crappy shot to set up a range 1 double mod.  It's a flexible upgrade.

3. Torrents

It's already been mentioned, but their selling points are price and five hull.  A well equipped BSP clocks in at 34 points max (Ded., SC, and a missile) and fulfills the role of beefy pawn quite effectively.  The dial is awful but believe it or not it's not difficult to learn how to fly them well.  

4. Y-Wings

With the exception of a triple Y list I enjoy flying, just use them just for turrets and bombs.  Broadside is a true standout and worth including in almost any list.  And don't sleep on Goji either.

5. Seventh Fleet Gunner

I'm very likely off my rocker with this statement, but I think the mere presence of this card impacts FFGs design philosophy for the Republic more than anything else in the game.  7thFG is the possible reason why three dice, full front arc ships aren't more prevelent as they could all be boosted to Ghost levels of damage.  It's got draw backs though at a hefty nine points and a disarm to reload.  But. I. Love. This. Card.  The cheapest way to get it effectively on the field is a Red Squadron Bomber with a dorsal turret.  I'm ok with a forty point investment that disarms a two dice attack nearly every turn if it means another ship is improved just as often.  If points allow I'll include proton bombs and an R4 as well.  Just as with Dedicated, I credit 7thFG with some close games going my way.  I wish it was a bit less expensive but I don't know what the "good but not too good" price point might be.  

Honorable Mention: Clone Commander Cody

Want to help give a bit of offensive juice to the list?  Cody in a Y-Wing or LAAt could be your guy.  Either the attack pushes through damage (hooray!) or is blocked (likely with just two dice) and gives the target a stain token enabling a follow up by a squad mate tok have better odds.  Add in the wonderfully thematic Ghost Company and that can happen up to twice a turn.  

Edited by Pa Weasley

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43 minutes ago, Pa Weasley said:

The Republic does have some sources of frustration;

the lack of 3 dice attacks and

lack of non-Jedi, non-Odd Ball high initiative pilots

 faction upgrades and some abilities lean toward a Clone brotherhood making small sacrifices for the benefit of the group with a Jedi to lead them. 

That's not a list building space well explored by other factions 

Interesting that one could describe a faction's entire flavor as a drawback, given that said flavor is then described as unique to the game.

Personally, I love N1s, and often do quite well with them.

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8 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

Interesting that one could describe a faction's entire flavor as a drawback, given that said flavor is then described as unique to the game.

Less a draw back more that players aren't used to playing that way.  Sorry I was clear as mud about that.  I personally love making Clone focused lists. 

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I really struggle to understand why they’d make Odd Ball the only i5 non-Jedi pilot in the whole faction, then put him on three ships. It feels like a troll.

And then of course, they follow it up with Anakin, the only i6 pilot in the entire faction, on three other ships (for now; there’s another on the way, and of course they’re duplicating Obi-Wan on that one too).

This is a faction that has a grand total of 6 ships. SIX. Diversity in listbuilding demands more options than this.

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3 hours ago, Cpt ObVus said:

I really struggle to understand why they’d make Odd Ball the only i5 non-Jedi pilot in the whole faction, then put him on three ships. It feels like a troll.

And then of course, they follow it up with Anakin, the only i6 pilot in the entire faction, on three other ships (for now; there’s another on the way, and of course they’re duplicating Obi-Wan on that one too).

This is a faction that has a grand total of 6 ships. SIX. Diversity in listbuilding demands more options than this.

OddBall everywhere is too much, yes, but at the beginning I saw it as useless and now I actually like both the torrent and ARC versions. The torrent lets you lock with his high initiative to fire missiles and use sync console to help friends, and ocassionally catches someone in the bullseye after a 2 talon or 3 k, plus it's quite cheap. The ARC with Fisto and R2-P4, at exactly 60 points, is as I imagined a heavy hitting ARC to be when they came out, I really love that setup. Even if you can just manage to take regular locks and use Kit's force for mods, it's solid. 

Edited by xanatos135

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23 hours ago, Cpt ObVus said:

1. V-19 Torrent

It kinda hot garbage right now. When the Goldies were 25 points, they were cost effective damage sinks, but now that TIE/SFs, M3-As, and Hyenas are the same cost with better dials, they don't really hold their weight. The dial is straight up bad; so much red, and so little ways to clear it. Don't bother with the named ones.

It is likely to be hilariously outmoded by the V-Wing.

23 hours ago, Cpt ObVus said:

2. BTL-B Y-Wing

Broadside is the Y-Wing hero you are looking for. He is the most consistent ion control piece in the game. Add an Ion Cannon Turret, set it to the side, then orbit around opponents.

Aside from Broadside, the Reds and Shadows are super cheap and are faster than Torrents. I'd avoid torpedoes unless you have some Synced Console or Wolfpack shenanigans in play. Stick to ion turrets and bombs.

Also, at first I was annoyed by Oddball everywhere, but now I'm in on the joke, and I want to see him in every Republic ship. Hot Shots and Aces II should just be and Oddball pack. And spoilers, he's in the V-wing, but there is another i5 V-Wing that isn't him.

23 hours ago, Cpt ObVus said:

3. N-1 Fighter

Ric is the best value here, followed by Anakin. Ric is fine bare bones, but an R2 or Daredevil don't hurt. Daredevil if you want stay in the fight; R2 if you are fine taking a turn off before zooming back. Anakin is the torp carrier you were looking for in the Y-Wing. Give him Passive Sensors and a torp and he is set. Dinee Hamburger is too low init to use. The Handmaidens are too expensive to use without a native evade action, and the Bravos are just too expensive. If you want cheap 2 die attacks with durability, take a Y-Wing for 4 points less.

23 hours ago, Cpt ObVus said:

4. Delta-7

7b is probably too expensive to leverage now, and you are bored with CLT. Perhaps wait for the Eta-2 coming soon?

23 hours ago, Cpt ObVus said:

5. ARC-170

The generics are really good value. Don't put a gunner on them. Jag and Wolffe are solid. Wolffe is fine to have a Veteran Tail Gunner. Sinker was good, but at this point, a LAAT accomplishes basically the same thing without forcing yourself into weird angle to keep your friendlies in you side arc. Oddball, as ever, is meh.

When given the choice between 2 Torrents or an ARC, take the ARC, largely because of the dial. If you aren't taking a LAAT, Clone Commander Cody or Wolfpack are solid, super cheap add-ons.

23 hours ago, Cpt ObVus said:

6. LAAT/i 

The LAAT/i is 100% worth it's point. Take Warthog with Wolfpack, and then back fill with generics. Give those generics Syncronized Console and between Wolfpack locks and Convergence Fire, you will always have rerolls. Clone Commander Cody is a solid gunner choice as the LAAT will often miss shots.

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On 10/21/2020 at 10:43 AM, EBerling said:

Synchronized Console is an awful card, no doubt.  The question is whether it's the worst card in the game, or just one of the worst cards in the game.

Er... Synchronized Console is one of the best cards the Republic has access to. It’s actually one of the cards that keeps me interested in the faction!

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9 minutes ago, Cpt ObVus said:

Er... Synchronized Console is one of the best cards the Republic has access to. It’s actually one of the cards that keeps me interested in the faction!

This. Pass that lock around the circle and let the missiles fly. 😎🍺

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7 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

I've kind of enjoyed SynCon with even low gimmicks.  Put together something like a triple I4 Jedi 7B list, and add SynCon.  Just sling the locks around as needed.  Not gamebreaking, but just a solid effect for a single point investment.

I've ran Jag with SynCon and a LAAT with Wolfpack, and between them you'll Convergence Fire to  supports the locks, and the locks can be tossed around willy-nilly.

Dropping to a single point is really what made it viable. 2 points was too much.

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