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5 minutes ago, Soakman said:

He's an NPC involved in the story of the Innsmouth Conspiracy.

Ah, thank you for the info.
I thought we’re getting another new investigator.
Since next year is the earliest I will get Innsmouth Conspiracy, I know nothing about him.

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On 10/16/2020 at 1:03 PM, Buhallin said:

At our local invocation event I was stuck in a game with someone running a pre-Taboo Key deck.  Those people definitely do exist :)

If nobody abuses it anyway the restriction is irrelevant, so why not put it in place just in case?

Inclusion. New players. Filthy casuals go to invocation events, too. 

Maybe they just figured out Milan/Higher Ed and are excited to contribute. 

Maybe they wanted to show off some Amanda/Versatile/Quick Thinking monstrosity because it sounded cool.

 

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1 hour ago, Iuchi Toshimo said:

Inclusion. New players. Filthy casuals go to invocation events, too. 

Maybe they just figured out Milan/Higher Ed and are excited to contribute. 

Maybe they wanted to show off some Amanda/Versatile/Quick Thinking monstrosity because it sounded cool.

Someone who thinks it's cool making the rest of the table wait while they take 20 or 30 actions during their turn is exactly why we need this.

How is it not inclusive for people to follow the taboos?  Nobody's being barred from the event, they're not interrogating people at the door and turning them away anyone who thinks they should still be able to use all the broken stuff.  Yes, there's an expectation for people to know more coming in, but I don't think it's too much of a burden to ask people to be aware of the rules for an event.  Every other event for every other game manages to run based on a current set of errata without falling apart.

There's a lot of interesting psychology of loss aversion around the taboos, and FFG has made it worse with how they've chosen to present it.  But the changes exist because the devs - and lots of players - think they make the game better.  It's not unreasonable to want to play that better version of the game at major events.

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I honestly couldn't care either way. 

On the one hand adhering to the Taboo List would help ensure no one is playing a potential NPE deck.  On the other hand enforcing the Taboo List at events is one more barrier of entry for a potential casual player.  Someone rolls up with their just bought Harvey Walters deck and everyone pushes their glasses up the bridge of their noses as they explain the changes to the Necronomicon or they roll up with their single core Roland deck to find out one of the few weapons they have available (Machete) is illegal in a lvl 0 deck.

If you are savvy enough to create some OP and NPE deck build then you should probably be playing with the Taboo List.  If you are someone walking in off the street with an Investigator Starter deck and a core set then who cares since you probably don't know enough  to create these exploitative combos anyway.  People with little experience and a limited card pool probably need the old crutches of 0xp Machete and original text Dr. Milan.  New players often comment at how oppressive this game is until they get a good handle of piloting and deck crafting.

All I ask is any OP event clearly states whether the Taboo List is mandatory or if it is not enforced so people can prepare accordingly.  You don't have people rolling up with the deck they are excited to play only to find out it is illegal when they get there.

Edited by phillos

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42 minutes ago, phillos said:

Someone rolls up with their just bought Harvey Walters deck and everyone pushes their glasses up the bridge of their noses as they explain the changes to the Necronomicon or they roll up with their single core Roland deck to find out one of the few weapons they have available (Machete) is illegal in a lvl 0 deck.

I think it's important to note here that the entire point is being decent to other players.  That goes the other way too.  Cases like this people should shrug and let it go.  Just like if you're halfway through a game and realize that someone accidentally included 11 XP instead of 9 - you don't stop the whole game and kick them out, you roll with it.

The point here is not some hyper-obsessive adherence to the rules (even if they were strict and official).  It's making sure everyone has the most enjoyable time possible.  If my choices are having to endure playing with an NPE deck taking infinite turns, or ignoring a new player who accidentally broke a deck construction rule or two, I know which I'd prefer.

 

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48 minutes ago, Buhallin said:

I think it's important to note here that the entire point is being decent to other players.  That goes the other way too.  Cases like this people should shrug and let it go.  Just like if you're halfway through a game and realize that someone accidentally included 11 XP instead of 9 - you don't stop the whole game and kick them out, you roll with it.

The point here is not some hyper-obsessive adherence to the rules (even if they were strict and official).  It's making sure everyone has the most enjoyable time possible.  If my choices are having to endure playing with an NPE deck taking infinite turns, or ignoring a new player who accidentally broke a deck construction rule or two, I know which I'd prefer.

 

Exactly. I've never been a big event guy, so I haven't participated in many. I imagine these are more the sorts of things you would have to worry about in a competitive gaming event rather than a coop event, but maybe I just have rose-tinted glasses on. That's why I have a tough time caring about the taboos at all. Even if I wanted to play an infinite turn deck just for giggles, I would never bring it to an event with strangers just to grief people. Especially when I'm stuck at a table with them for a couple of hours. (I wouldn't even if the game only took 10 minutes, but that's just me).

It seems weird to put into place a set of rules to prevent people from being derps to each other during a coop game. Are people really just that obtuse or into griefing? I mean, if that's the case, there's no reason why people wouldn't play a rogue and/or mystic and just play you owe me one on dumb cards, force pull extra encounters with delves, or (now) dump a ton of curses into the bag just to do it. I don't see any of those happening, but maybe I'm just not involved enough.

Edited by Soakman

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28 minutes ago, Soakman said:

It seems weird to put into place a set of rules to prevent people from being derps to each other during a coop game. Are people really just that obtuse or into griefing? I mean, if that's the case, there's no reason why people wouldn't play a rogue and/or mystic and just play you owe me one on dumb cards, force pull extra encounters with delves, or (now) dump a ton of curses into the bag just to do it. I don't see any of those happening, but maybe I'm just not involved enough.

FWIW I think it's less a problem with griefing; honestly if someone's going to play that way the Taboos don't do anything to stop them.

But even in a cooperative game, there's some competitiveness.  Lots of players want to be the one who do things - I can't tell you the number of times in LOTR our group has bogged down in debates over who's going to deal with this enemy or that location when either player can do so equally well.  Lots of players like to show off how clever they are with big plays and big combos, which is generally fine but when it breaks the game for everyone else they end up being the only one who has fun.  Worth noting that this is a big problem for newer players too - that newbie coming in with their single-core Roland is going to struggle in the first place, but how are they going to feel when one player runs off an infinite action combo and cleans up the entire board?  Everyone seems concerned about whether they'll have issues knowing about the Taboo, but what's their play experience going to be?

I too wish that we could just trust that everyone at the table would be considerate to the fun of everyone else.  But especially in a large event with a wide range of player types that's not always the case.

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I just checked this discussion to understand why DoN has been forbidden, and as it turnes out, my group has been playing a less-powerful version all along.
Since our first deck-building, we were sure that DoN would not double any effects from other skill cards, since the alternative could easily turn into a game-breaker. At least we were right in that regard.

Our interpretation still made DoN a strong and beloved card in my round; combined with the right asset or event cards, it can still turn a game around.
Most likely, instead of banning the card in our round, we will re-set the card level to "0" and keep playing it as "If this skill test is successful, resolve the effects of the successful test twice (except effects triggered by other skill cards)."
 

Edited by Vitus_Prem

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