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Push The Limit, Eta-2

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31 minutes ago, reqent said:

My guess is the generic will be in 41 points.  I think obi and anakin will be 3 or 4 points cheaper before you take into account clt.  The others I have no idea.   It's kinda hard to predict they cant go too low but the aethersprite is already costed pretty aggressively.

But if they go too high, you will never see them get played because deltas are better...

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42 minutes ago, The Penguin UK said:

But if they go too high, you will never see them get played because deltas are better...

Agreed that is the tricky part.  Regardless this looks really fun to fly.       

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Upon further pondering, R2-D2 won't be as expensive if he is used after the ship has fully completed its activation (can't do a blue to clear the deplete), but can also work quite nicely for clearing off critical damage (pilot spends action to flip the crit, R2 then removes the card entirely).

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14 hours ago, Hoarder of Garlic Bread said:

Also Aayla is a better support ship than Yoda. Fite Mii.

Yoda is like Plo Koon in the Aethersprite, don't mind his abilty, you take him for all his force (and Plo I 5).

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3 hours ago, reqent said:

My guess is the generic will be in 41 points.  I think obi and anakin will be 3 or 4 points cheaper before you take into account clt.  The others I have no idea.   It's kinda hard to predict they cant go too low but the aethersprite is already costed pretty aggressively.

41 is actually a bit of a breakpoint for Reps. It's a number that keeps coming up for me and allows for Broadside, N-1akin, a Plasma Torp Bravo, an R4 Knight.... Maybe others. Obscure perhaps, but going to 42, like a 104th, a Protorp Y... changes the lists a fair degree. 

I've literally no idea how to cost this thing, but at 43, even 44, like a Squad Seven, I think I can make a fairly beasty 4 ship list. If 40s is where the I4 will be, I wouldn't be surprised to see it at 45 minimum. As a caution.

If it's lower....Lauren Hill sings... watch out, watch out....

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I honestly wouldn't be surprised if it was costed along similar lines to the TIE Phantom. An evade that it's free to spend on 3ag, doesn't equal 5hp on 2 greens but isn't far away. 2 force that allows system phase movement that isn't merely lateral, whilst maintaining a passive mod. Lots more synergistic support available, to offset the on-board support of upgrade slots.

I know I said I've no idea, and I don't, but I'm beginning to think low 40s is optimistic on any of them.

But I'll be buying 2, expecting a high cost, so I won't be mad either way :D

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8 hours ago, Npmartian said:

 

8 hours ago, Npmartian said:

Yoda will be maybe 1 or 2 points above the General (or even cheaper, as you even lose an initiative but it depends on how they value the support ability)

I think people are sleeping on Yoda, he will be basically a Tie Fighter with a 3 charge Palp for all other Jedi.

I assume people would take Palp in a tie fighter due to point efficiency. An i3 tie is 25 points, with Palp becomes 36. If you value the 2 extra force at 5 points, 41-42 would be reasonable, but I doubt that would be a consensual evaluation

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14 hours ago, LeMightyASP said:

There's a big difference between activation and system phase. The value of supernatural comes from it happening right before the ship moves. For aces, the Delta repositioning is much more valuable, while the actis' repositioning is better to setup blocks.

The Actis being able to set up blocks seems pretty big to me. If your I5/I6 blocks an I1, the I1 has lost one of it's best selling points (aside from being cheap). That has to at least make up for the pre-movement being in the system phase for everyone to see.

14 hours ago, mrgandw said:

Just want to comment on the wing card. The dreadnaught hunter card also doesn't have any wing leader info and the First Order Vanguard quick build pairs it with First Order Elite on Kylo. Quickbuilds due often break rules but I think in this case it's showing that non wing leader cards get added to a wing leader card.

The Dreadnaught Hunter doesn't contain any wing leader info because it isn't a wing leader upgrade. As you say, Quickbuilds break the rules often. But there are other things wrong with the Jedi Commander card beyond what can be paired with it.

First, it has no restrictions. It's not restricted by faction, base size, or even keyword. Meaning you can take it on Dengar, who is in the wrong faction, on an atypical wingleader base size, and isn't a Jedi.

Also, if this is equipped to an Eta-2 as is intended by the maneuver text, any other Eta-2's paired up in the Jedi Commander wing cannot do purple tallon rolls in the wing. They must be treated as red.

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20 minutes ago, 5050Saint said:

Also, if this is equipped to an Eta-2 as is intended by the maneuver text, any other Eta-2's paired up in the Jedi Commander wing cannot do purple tallon rolls in the wing. They must be treated as red.

I suspect that they will reveal the wing card was supposed to have the keyword “Jedi” and then allow any small base ships to join the wing. Or perhaps it will be keyword Jedi for leader and keyword clone for all wingmates.

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7 minutes ago, ScummyRebel said:

I suspect that they will reveal the wing card was supposed to have the keyword “Jedi” and then allow any small base ships to join the wing. Or perhaps it will be keyword Jedi for leader and keyword clone for all wingmates.

swz79_jedi-commander2.png

Here is my rewrite:

Quote

 

Restricted: Jedi, Small Base, Republic

You are a wing leader. Your wingmates must be 2 or 3 V19 Torrents or Nimbus Class V-Wings.

While you defend, up to 2 of your wingmates in the attack arc may suffer 1 HIT or CRIT damage to cancel a matching result.

 

Move the purple to red maneuver info into the Rules Reference. The Clone keyword for wingmates is a novel idea but that includes ARCs and LAATs currently. If we went that way, we would need to also specify small base and it would allow for the Clone z95 in the future. I chose only 2-3 similar to the First Order Elite since it can be put on a hyper maneuverable Eta-2 or Delta-7.

The Republic restriction would be needed if small base Jedi ever popped in another faction (Ahsoka or Kanan come to mind).

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I'd go with "your wingmates must be [# or # etc] small-base Clone pilots of a single ship type."  I don't mind future inclusion of Z-95s or other ships.  Limiting the wing count does seem wise, given the mobility of the leaders, and the cheapness of the wingmates.

I think I'd also * or ** limit it.  Having 3 or 4 super-agile Ace Jedi each flying around a pair of dirt-cheap-and-tough-as-nails Torrents (dedicated Blues even?) might just get kinda gross.

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7 hours ago, _iaco_ said:

40 - 45 pts range for generals, Yoda and Shaak?

45 - 50 pts range for Aayla and Obi?

50 - 55 pts range for Anakin?

those ranges all seem to start around 10 points too low. 47pt obi-wan? what 47pt pilot in any faction would compete with that?

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41 minutes ago, svelok said:

those ranges all seem to start around 10 points too low. 47pt obi-wan? what 47pt pilot in any faction would compete with that?

Zizi is only 41 and I think Zizi does not fall far of new Obi's power.

If new Obi is over 50 then I don't think he would see much if any play in the current meta

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4 minutes ago, Revanur said:

Zizi is only 41 and I think Zizi does not fall far of new Obi's power.

If new Obi is over 50 then I don't think he would see much if any play in the current meta

I'd play new Obi if he's 55. Soontir, but repositioning is different, force is even easier to have (instead of bullseye, it's always on), LAAT rerolls, purple maneuvers, astromech slot, other Republic support stuff, etc. The only downside from going from Soonts to Obi is the initiative drop.

I suppose there's also the bit about needing bullseye to get your 3 dice, but whatevs. 7th fleet is in faction if you find yourself having trouble landing that or if you're moving first.

Edited by Hoarder of Garlic Bread

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