Star Wars Squadrons for x-wing; Or How I learned to stop worrying and love Vanguard and Titan Squadrons

[That Blasted Samophlange 6,923]

First things first there WILL be story spoilers, so just beware.
 

 

 

 

 

 

So many of us here have played squadrons and I got to thinking how much this game could influence x-wing.   Now I am sort of working on another squadrons project - bringing a gameplay variant that has power management - but I want to talk basic x-wing here.  
 

So, the first thing squadrons can do for x-wing is give us more pilots!   Yay!  We could easily get Varko in an interceptor, Shen in a bomber, Sol in a reaper and Vonreg in a TIE and a limited Titan 3 for all the above craft.   
counterpart we can get Gunny in a u-wing, frisk in a y-, Keo in an A- and Grace in an X-wing, with A limited Vanguard 5 for each above craft.

These would be GREAT for squad packs!   I'd pay a little extra for 4 ships in each, maybe with the preorder bonus paint scheme.   Even the basic ships would be fine.   A case could be made to leave out the basic TIE and x-wing  as they are available in the core set, which you need anyway.   So a pack with a bomber, interceptor and reaper vs a u-wing, y-wing and a-wing.   That could work.

This also has great cross marketing potential.   New pilots, new paint jobs.  All good stuff.   Add some new upgrades for these ships and it breathes some life.   Now it doesn't have to emulate the video game exactly, but having some tweaks could be good.

 

Another option is these packs could be a good way to springboard a new gameplay mode.   FFG has been working in their own solo play rules, this could be a great way to make an Official solo/co-op game.  The way Real life Is going, that isn't necessarily a bad idea.   1-5 players for a game offers more options.   
 

But even without that, why shouldn't FFG dive into squadrons?  
would you buy squadrons Related releases?   What would you give the pilots as abilities?  
would you want a 1-5 player expansion (that lets you use your existing miniatures?

[KCDodger 11,040]

I think I'm really interested in the idea of the U-Wing's slots being used to drop support packages on friendlies.

Crew
Resupply Droid
1 Charge
Requires Target Lock

You may spend a charge and a target lock to give the unit you had a [target lock] on 1 hull and 1 charge to the [bomb, torpedo, missile] of your choice.

Or something similar to that. Targeting beacons and shield boosts requiring TLs would be cool too, just as well the idea of turrets being able to be coughed out. The reason for crew is because these can't fit in torpedo tubes, but take up the crew space - logically, I'd assume. Nowhere else they can REALLY fit tbh.

[Kehl_Aecea 1,293]

I would love this. It wouldn't be the first video game squadron brought into the game (Inferno Squad gets that badge) and I think we can all agree, A-Wings, Y-Wings, U-Wings, TIE Bombers, Reapers and Interceptors could use a few new faces... and I won't say no to X-Wing and TIE Fighter pilots!

I also really like the idea of SUPPORT ships getting ways to repair, reload, or buff friendly ship, but there has to be ways to limit what ships can use these particular upgrades so you aren't throwing a shield buff torpedo on an E-Wing or whatever. Maybe grant specific ships the key word "support" or make it limited to a base size?

[MasterShake2 5,184]

Mod:

Tauntaun plushie

Special Rule:  You have a tauntan plushie

[5050Saint 2,127]

12 hours ago, KCDodger said:

Crew
Resupply Droid
1 Charge
Requires Target Lock

You may spend a charge and a target lock to give the unit you had a [target lock] on 1 hull and 1 charge to the [bomb, torpedo, missile] of your choice.

You may give 1 hull is odd wording, and would be a hull upgrade at the start of any game if you wanted. Perhaps this? 

Quote

Action: You may choose one friendly ship that you have locked and spend one charge. If you do, that ship may repair 1 damage card and regain one charge on a [bomb, torpedo, missile] upgrade.

 

[FTS Gecko 24,121]

Shen for the win.  You're only allowed to fly him if you're wearing a TIE Fighter helmet.

[That Blasted Samophlange 6,923]

20 hours ago, KCDodger said:

I think I'm really interested in the idea of the U-Wing's slots being used to drop support packages on friendlies.

Crew
Resupply Droid
1 Charge
Requires Target Lock

You may spend a charge and a target lock to give the unit you had a [target lock] on 1 hull and 1 charge to the [bomb, torpedo, missile] of your choice.

Or something similar to that. Targeting beacons and shield boosts requiring TLs would be cool too, just as well the idea of turrets being able to be coughed out. The reason for crew is because these can't fit in torpedo tubes, but take up the crew space - logically, I'd assume. Nowhere else they can REALLY fit tbh.

Okay.   This is a good start.   The question is do you make something like this A pilot ability or another upgrade?   Though a crew option does work, but begs the question as a crew option is it limited to u-wing and reaper or can something like a shuttle use it?
 

with your design I think there could be some clean up.  

I think the requiring a lock is perfect and thematic.   I’d put 2 or 3 charges, though recovering a charge as an action could be fine.  
 

I wouldn't recover damage, but maybe flip an exposed damage card, recover a shield, or recover a weapon upgrades charge.  

Perhaps the ability should work like this:

when a friendly ship at range 1-2 that you have a lock on would suffer a damage, or expend a charge from an weapon upgrade, you may spend a charge from this card instead.     
 

obviously wording needs to be cleaned up, and it is a bit more proactive, but is thematic enough.  

 

Honestly, I think Gunny or Sol having their ability do an squadrons themed ability would be good.  
 

 

 

[KCDodger 11,040]

3 hours ago, That Blasted Samophlange said:

Okay.   This is a good start.   The question is do you make something like this A pilot ability or another upgrade?   Though a crew option does work, but begs the question as a crew option is it limited to u-wing and reaper or can something like a shuttle use it?
 

with your design I think there could be some clean up.  

I think the requiring a lock is perfect and thematic.   I’d put 2 or 3 charges, though recovering a charge as an action could be fine.  
 

I wouldn't recover damage, but maybe flip an exposed damage card, recover a shield, or recover a weapon upgrades charge.  

Perhaps the ability should work like this:

when a friendly ship at range 1-2 that you have a lock on would suffer a damage, or expend a charge from an weapon upgrade, you may spend a charge from this card instead.     
 

obviously wording needs to be cleaned up, and it is a bit more proactive, but is thematic enough.  

 

Honestly, I think Gunny or Sol having their ability do an squadrons themed ability would be good.  
 

 

 

Definitely not an ability strictly, so that it can be used on other U-Wings that do the same thing in Squadrons - you may notice AIs doing support stuff here and there. I also want TIE Reapers to be able to do this stuff. Thing is, few things heal hull outright in this game. That'd make this really valuable and put U-Wings and TIE Reapers on the table for sure.

[Nyxen 1,762]

2 hours ago, KCDodger said:

Definitely not an ability strictly, so that it can be used on other U-Wings that do the same thing in Squadrons - you may notice AIs doing support stuff here and there. I also want TIE Reapers to be able to do this stuff. Thing is, few things heal hull outright in this game. That'd make this really valuable and put U-Wings and TIE Reapers on the table for sure.

Make it medium base only to lock it out of reach of The deci/falcon type things 

[Tervlon 775]

I absolutely want this. If FFG doesn't make some Squadrons tie in packs I would be VERY surprised. I like the packs you have presented but would add one thing and that is a few epic cards. It would be great to spice up epic even more by tossing in some Raider, CR-90, Gozanti and GR-75 titles and a few new crew and weapons (in addition to Squadrons themed Wing quick builds!). If you don't play epic give the cards away, but if you do play epic it would be super thematic and a ton of extra value. 

For even more bonus points, they would throw in Keyan Farlander (in a Y-Wing!) and Shriv into the Rebel pack and a new Maarek Stele and Gideon Hask (TIE Interceptor!) into the Empire pack.

[KCDodger 11,040]

15 hours ago, Nyxen said:

Make it medium base only to lock it out of reach of The deci/falcon type things 

Yeah, for sure. This opens it up for, rather hilariously, ARC-170s and Gunships to use. Which I don't think is even remotely a bad or dubious thing.

[Ebak 1,465]

I was thinking about this last night! I'd love to see FFG do a large Squadron pack. It would be more expensive than the current ones, instead of $40 it most likely would be pushing $50 or maybe $55.

Do a Titan Squadron, and Vanguard Squadron pack. Each pack contains 4 ships:

TIE Fighter, TIE Interceptor, TIE Bomber and TIE Reaper; X-Wing, Y-Wing, A-Wing and U-Wing respectively. Each pack contains at least two or three named pilots for each ship to expand each ships options. However, each ship has a key member of their respective squadron in a ship associated with them:

Kierah "Gunny" Koovah - U-Wing
Keo Venzee - A-Wing
Feresk "Frisk" Tssat - Y-Wing
Gracalia Vatara Sienar - X-Wing

Varko Grey - TIE Interceptor
Havina Vonreg - TIE Fighter
Rella Sol - TIE Reaper
Shen - TIE Bomber

The increased cost is a bit necessary due to the fact in addition to the three small ships, a much larger medium base ship is also being included. I personally think a $45 for this could work.

[That Blasted Samophlange 6,923]

1 hour ago, Ebak said:

I was thinking about this last night! I'd love to see FFG do a large Squadron pack. It would be more expensive than the current ones, instead of $40 it most likely would be pushing $50 or maybe $55.

Do a Titan Squadron, and Vanguard Squadron pack. Each pack contains 4 ships:

TIE Fighter, TIE Interceptor, TIE Bomber and TIE Reaper; X-Wing, Y-Wing, A-Wing and U-Wing respectively. Each pack contains at least two or three named pilots for each ship to expand each ships options. However, each ship has a key member of their respective squadron in a ship associated with them:

Kierah "Gunny" Koovah - U-Wing
Keo Venzee - A-Wing
Feresk "Frisk" Tssat - Y-Wing
Gracalia Vatara Sienar - X-Wing

Varko Grey - TIE Interceptor
Havina Vonreg - TIE Fighter
Rella Sol - TIE Reaper
Shen - TIE Bomber

The increased cost is a bit necessary due to the fact in addition to the three small ships, a much larger medium base ship is also being included. I personally think a $45 for this could work.

As above, I think this would be great.  I figured adding Titan 3 and Vanguard 5 as a pilot for all ships could work.  Though this pilot is not named, it would be thematic.  Not a big fan of this idea, but it could pad out the pilots - was Titan 3 in the hunted short named?   

[InterceptorMad 2,003]

Been playing the campaign today and oh god, I want these pilots more than new ships lol

Vonreg needs a Ruthless-esque ability right? She's so aggressive and hardline imperial. Shen should have a calculate one too.

Would love to come up with some ideas for them all.

[That Blasted Samophlange 6,923]

 VANGUARD SQUAD

Kierah "Gunny" Koovah -  at the beginning of the activation phase, gunny can remove a stress token from an allied ship she has a lock on.

Keo Venzee - 1 non-recurring force charge. Cant equip force abilities.   Can spend a force charge to decrease the difficulty of a maneuver.  Action: recover a force charge. 

Feresk "Frisk" Tssat - frisk should have an illicit slot.  When dropping a bomb, you may drop from the side instead if behind.  

Gracalia Vatara Sienar - recurring charge; When attacking an enemy ship with the TIE keyword, You may spend your charge to turn a hit into a crit.

TITAN SQUAD
Varko Grey - when attacking an enemy ship that has an allied ship in its arc, you may change a blank into a hit.

Havina Vonreg - at the start of the activation phase, if you have an enemy ship in your arc gain a focus.  If you do not have an enemy ship in arc, gain a stress

Rella Sol - 2 charges.   At the start of a turn, if allied ships outnumber enemy ships, gain a charge.   If enemy ships outnumber allied ships, lose a charge.  For each active charge, you may maintain an extra lock.

Shen -  When you are dealt a damage card, you can recover a charge on an equipped upgrade

 

These are just some ideas I had based on some dialog and what we have seen.  

[dezzmont 690]

OVEREAGER TITAN BOMBER

Public Volunteer. Y WING

During the start of engagement you may take a strain to rotate 90 degrees. During your activation, if you have an opponent in your forward arc, your maneuver becomes either a white stop or white 1 forward. While an enemy is in your arc, all enemies may re-roll any number of dice attacking you.

Edited October 9 by dezzmont

[Odanan 5,439]

On 10/7/2020 at 4:54 PM, Ebak said:

I was thinking about this last night! I'd love to see FFG do a large Squadron pack. It would be more expensive than the current ones, instead of $40 it most likely would be pushing $50 or maybe $55.

Do a Titan Squadron, and Vanguard Squadron pack. Each pack contains 4 ships:

TIE Fighter, TIE Interceptor, TIE Bomber and TIE Reaper; X-Wing, Y-Wing, A-Wing and U-Wing respectively. Each pack contains at least two or three named pilots for each ship to expand each ships options. However, each ship has a key member of their respective squadron in a ship associated with them:

Kierah "Gunny" Koovah - U-Wing
Keo Venzee - A-Wing
Feresk "Frisk" Tssat - Y-Wing
Gracalia Vatara Sienar - X-Wing

Varko Grey - TIE Interceptor
Havina Vonreg - TIE Fighter
Rella Sol - TIE Reaper
Shen - TIE Bomber

The increased cost is a bit necessary due to the fact in addition to the three small ships, a much larger medium base ship is also being included. I personally think a $45 for this could work.

Why releasing this with the minis, though? This would fit perfectly into a themed card-only pack.

[InterceptorMad 2,003]

10 minutes ago, Odanan said:

Why releasing this with the minis, though? This would fit perfectly into a themed card-only pack.

Yeah i have way too many of each of those ships to want to fork out extra money for them just to get the cards.

Honestly, I feel the future of the two OT factions is cards, unless there is a brand new ship. Otherwise you split your customer base too much and go back on their promise of "you won't need to rebuy ships to get new content"

[DatonKallandor 20]

Why not both? That seems like the obviously best course of action. Cards for the people that just need the cards. A version of the pack with minis for newer players that don't everything yet and collectors that want the new paintjobs (because obviously, these would have new paintjobs!).

[Darth Meanie 15,556]

57 minutes ago, Odanan said:

Why releasing this with the minis, though? This would fit perfectly into a themed card-only pack.

Because not everyone is a current player.

This concept would be aaaaamazing for a brand new player to jump into Rebels and Empire.  I have always thought the "core set" is a pretty lame entry point for XWM, and it's kinda getting dumber all the time. 

And, as @DatonKallandor points out, new paints.

Lastly, maybe this might bump up someone's existing ship count enough to try Epic. 😃

Edited October 9 by Darth Meanie

[That Blasted Samophlange 6,923]

1 hour ago, Odanan said:

Why releasing this with the minis, though? This would fit perfectly into a themed card-only pack.

Because some people may not have the minis.   If, as I suggested, it also contained a new gameplay method, makes sense to have miniatures.

1 hour ago, InterceptorMad said:

Yeah i have way too many of each of those ships to want to fork out extra money for them just to get the cards.

Honestly, I feel the future of the two OT factions is cards, unless there is a brand new ship. Otherwise you split your customer base too much and go back on their promise of "you won't need to rebuy ships to get new content"

Well, that is all fine for YOU.   But believe it or not there are other people that play x-wing that may not have bought doubles because they had a very small gaming budget, or even are new to the game.   
 

 

 

 

 

[InterceptorMad 2,003]

Yeah i get that, it would just fuel the 2nd hand market more.

Either way, I want these characters all as cards. 

 

3 hours ago, DatonKallandor said:

Why not both? That seems like the obviously best course of action. Cards for the people that just need the cards. A version of the pack with minis for newer players that don't everything yet and collectors that want the new paintjobs (because obviously, these would have new paintjobs!).

Mostly because FFG haven't ever done that. And I doubt they would. 

[dezzmont 690]

4 hours ago, That Blasted Samophlange said:

Well, that is all fine for YOU.   But believe it or not there are other people that play x-wing that may not have bought doubles because they had a very small gaming budget, or even are new to the game.   

5 hours ago, Darth Meanie said:

Because not everyone is a current player.

The failure of the attempt to create reprints strongly indicates most players are either existing players, or savvy new players picking up a conversion kit. We can say 'oh but new players though' but that would be self-delusion at this point.

Reprints will EVENTUALLY be a thing, the second hand market and the 1.0 market is slowing down, but FFG clearly can't force stores to carry a ton of X-wing product that isn't moving, even if the game is popular. That strains store relationships too and makes them less likely to support X-wing events, because from the perspective of a store owner you got a bunch of jerks not buying anything making you have to go through the expense (and it is an expense) of storing and managing product, AND a bunch of people taking up a ton of table space every night compared to say... MTG, which the game is meant to emulate in terms of sales model anyway.

I definitely agree that the core set is a bad entry and the game really shoulda had a shipless coreset at 20 dollars and a 30-40 dollar squadron pack as its entry where you pick your faction. And we kinda seem to be getting that with stuff like Heroes of Hope and the other aces packs. 

It might be that Titan Squad gets to be the theme of the Empire's aces pack, but its almost certain that the Rebel one is locked in, and I doubt you could release two packs that contain a lot of very well supported ships that are the most likely for people to have at their play limit.

5 hours ago, Darth Meanie said:

Lastly, maybe this might bump up someone's existing ship count enough to try Epic. 😃

This would require X-wing to be a game mode people play. I think it would be very good for the game if variable points count objective based modes that de-value spamming one type of ship while at the same time increasing total ship count became 'the' way to play X-wing, but at the moment its too niche due to a lack of support combined with a lack of enthusiasm and so any X-wings over 5 are 'wasted' on most players.

FFG seems to be trying to push the needle there with stuff like sneaking in Epic cards to new releaseses, which will create a perceived 'Epic value' in your collection. I think the real kicker would just be to make a scenario app for people's phones that not so subtly asks you how many points your playing with and doesn't call the current deathmatch mode 'standard' but instead 'deathmatch' or something to make a middle ground between epic and standard play to really get it to kick off.

Edited October 9 by dezzmont

[Ebak 1,465]

6 hours ago, InterceptorMad said:

Yeah i have way too many of each of those ships to want to fork out extra money for them just to get the cards.

Honestly, I feel the future of the two OT factions is cards, unless there is a brand new ship. Otherwise you split your customer base too much and go back on their promise of "you won't need to rebuy ships to get new content"

 

6 hours ago, Odanan said:

Why releasing this with the minis, though? This would fit perfectly into a themed card-only pack.

I agree...there is only one niggle in the problem: The TIE Bomber, and potentially the TIE Reaper, for me I've struggled to get ahold of one. New players would benefit from this pack as a cheap way to get a TIE Fighter, Interceptor, Bomber and Reaper, especially since all these ships (bar the TIE Fighter perhaps) would appreciate more new pilots than just one each. The card packs...at least going on what we've seen before tends to only be one new pilot for 4 ships so while you can to Titan squadron, I think there would be a lot of gnashing of teeth from existing players for their waiting to culminate in one new pilot per ship.

FFG can't really do card packs aimed at a faction because then you take one product and make it into three which introduces debates over return of investment and if its even worth producing.

FFGs direction appears to be going towards card packs for minor additions, and squadron packs for rereleases to entice both new and old players. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to be able to pick up a card pack and it contain 5 new pilots per ship for Rebels or whatever faction...but those expansions only appeal to people with large collections or who just feel they have enough of each ship, not really a wide market. Having two products, one for new players and old players is also a little redundant, because while creating player choice, your introducing another product that needs to be packaged, shipped, put on shelfs and sold, it's cheaper to just make one product.

I personally think "You won't need to rebuy ships to get new content" was a great consumer move, but it might have come at the cost of the overall profits, and if the game isn't making profits, then the game won't be a thing for very much longer. There needs to be some give and take between consumers and the developer. They kept their promise of not needing to buy the reprints for new stuff and the result was mediocre at best reprint sales according to what I've heard.

At the same time you can't just say "well, the audience is clearly only old players." you have to allow for a new player to get into the game and so you can't just switch to an all card model for X-Wing because then how does someone new get into the game?

Anyway, I am rambling about the business model rather than the theoretical product. There's also the market-ability of the expansion. If you have that on the shelf with those 4 models on display with a sticker reading "from the hit game, Star Wars Squadrons" it has the potential to introduce people who play Squadrons, but not X-Wing to the game. Buying one product is easier to sell someone than "buy these two products from first edition, these two products from second, and this card pack...there you go Squadron player! You can now play X-Wing!"

Edited October 9 by Ebak

[Darth Meanie 15,556]

1 hour ago, dezzmont said:

 We can say 'oh but new players though' but that would be self-delusion at this point.

It better not be, or the game is in big trouble.  Especially since it seems like a lot of Rebel and Imperial players seem to be complaining "6/7ths of the game is dead to me" elsewhere.  Sadly his probably a contributing factor to Epic's lukewarm performance.

Quote

at the moment its too niche due to a lack of support combined with a lack of enthusiasm and so any X-wings over 5 are 'wasted' on most players.

The "too niche" may actually be a reflection of the players' themselves, who are so worked into a niche they can't even conceive of playing a different faction, let alone another playstyle.

Quote

FFG seems to be trying to push the needle there with stuff like sneaking in Epic cards to new releaseses, which will create a perceived 'Epic value' in your collection.

It's not "perceived" to me.  I find true value in the fact that FFG seems to be finding ways to support Epic play all the time, as opposed to when the Ultra Rare huge ship is released.

 

Because the truth is a lot of existing players are here:

1 hour ago, Ebak said:

I agree...there is only one niggle in the problem: The TIE Bomber, and potentially the TIE Reaper, for me I've struggled to get ahold of one.