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zhentil

Overall Health of Game

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Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, zhentil said:

I believe that the health of the game is doing pretty awesome.  I mean I stopped for a long time when 2.0 was announced and I have recently gotten back into the game. I am really enjoying this game. 

I agree. The past 6+ months of Hyperspace have been some of the best & most fun 2.0 X-Wing I have ever played. Thats held up even post recent point update. Circumstances obviously haven't allowed for any in person games but the lists and in game experience have still been really entertaining even online. I still find myself wanting to play a bunch of different things from just about every faction in hyperspace. There are a huge # of lists, archetypes, and ships I have yet to take the time to properly test across factions. The conversion kits still feel like "new content" to me 2 years on and the new factions Republic/Separatists have a lot of cool stuff to unpack. 

Edited by Boom Owl

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I'm in! Just got into the game recently courtesy of my eldest daughter who, along with her SO, regrettably had to shutter their FLGS effort. She gifted me with a chunk of their excess X-Wing stock, and I'm hooked! Can't wait for the virus situation to allow for a real local in-person game scene so I can start getting schooled on the table instead of by sim AI or mindsims.

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I think the fact that chatter has continued and online play has bloomed, speaks volumes for the games health in the face of MONTHS of not being able to play as intended.

In an unhealthy state, the drop off could have been intense.

The in person, social aspect is a big deal and often the only real reason for someone to choose to play tabletop, it can prop up an otherwise rather crappy game.

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Posted (edited)
On 10/3/2020 at 1:49 PM, ScummyRebel said:

I definitely think the game is going strong because even with months of no in person large events the hype and excitement continues.

It’s still probably my favorite to play: other games are bought more for the hobby aspects 

The lack of tournaments has actually bought the fun back into playing for me, because people at my local store are not constantly practising to win the next thing, which has brought way more fun and diverse lists to the tables.

Edited by Dwing

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Lately for my weekly at home games we've been doing "Poison Pick" variant to shake things up. One person creates two lists, the other gets first choice of the squads. It has allowed us to enjoy some pilots and upgrades that otherwise would never see play, and discover some fun things.

Also, 5 Gunboats with FCS/Autoblasters/AdvSlam is quite good. Lining up range 1-2 bulleyes with 1 manuevers into slams is hella easier than I thought. 

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20 hours ago, Dwing said:

The lack of tournaments has actually bought the fun back into playing for me, because people at my local store are not constantly practising to win the next thing, which has bought way more fun and diverse lists to the tables.

Telling points; brings back memories. I recall my (brief) foray into M:TG when I just wanted simple pick-up games to enjoy the game and at the FLGS I kept running into tourney players trying to hone their killer internet decks and my not really enjoying the game at all. Then I got into competitive play with Decipher's SW game and the shoe was on the other foot.

Now I'm hoping that when (if) local play picks up I can find casual players. Come full circle. 

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It's pretty wild how relevant X-Wing has stayed through the pandemic and honestly...

On 10/3/2020 at 11:30 AM, Dwing said:

The lack of tournaments has actually bought the fun back into playing for me, because people at my local store are not constantly practising to win the next thing, which has bought way more fun and diverse lists to the tables.

That just brings a smile to my face.

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Posted (edited)
On 10/3/2020 at 11:30 AM, Dwing said:

The lack of tournaments has actually bought the fun back into playing for me, because people at my local store are not constantly practising to win the next thing, which has brought way more fun and diverse lists to the tables.

I think this actually speaks to a bit to the lack of meta health.

Obviously health means different things in different contexts. Tourny health isn't necessarily casual health, for example. List diversity, archetype diversity, mecahnical diversity, and faction diversity all matter.

I think a 'chronic' problem with X-wing, and a problem that hasn't changed, is that 'mid tier' lists are actually quite fun, but the difference between a mid tier list and a top tier list is super high. Hence the 'Local tourney ruined by nice guy just practicing for a tournament' phenomenon, which legit almost made me quit X-wing when I faced 2 Bobas in one night. I suspect Nantex will be worse. I think there should definitely be more of a focus on 'squeezing' the 'power levels' of lists down and trying to reduce the potential of blow out matches before we start celebrating game health.

On top of this, faction balance (and levels of support) have been a critical issue and I suspect if we go another points change without major changes the game is going to collapse on itself, L5R style. Factional identity is way more important than a lot of people around here seem to think (ex: Rebels despite having like a 35% winrate still are a massive amount of tourney players, which indicates a very die hard loyalty), and when games just fail to support a faction players of that faction default to leaving, not collecting the new stuff that is incompatible with their collection, because once the collection loses perceived value suddenly you have no pre-existing financial attachment to the game.

That said, I am enjoying seeing how wacky Metawing has been and all these crazy lists doing well on a given week. It is neat to see way more experimentation. It is fun, and I think it would be good for the game if the fun thing was also the smart thing to do and lists were more personal to players. There are definitely good things to look to in the current times for X-wing, but at the same time while for you it might be 'I am having fun experimenting online' remember that, for the actual game, this sudden discontinuity of play tends to be habit breaking, especially if there were things to grumble about before. So finding a way to bring this 'online' energy forward is gunna be critical.

Edited by dezzmont

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1 hour ago, dezzmont said:

Factional identity is way more important than a lot of people around here seem to think

I'm only an anecdotal "data point" of one, but I'm in this camp. I've picked the factions I'm interested in based more on the "feels" than the toys they have. The ones I avoid I do so mainly because I don't like the idea of identifying with them. I have no problem playing the "bad guys" in traditional tabletop wargaming, but X-Wing feels more personal to me. Just my quirk.

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Posted (edited)

It's better than I would have expected at this point.  No tourneys is tough but I'd guess a larger % of X-Wing is played on kitchen tables than many here would expect so the pandemic may have been less problematic, maybe?  Hard to say w/o official numbers.  FLGS are having a bad time though.

I hope FFG has learned its lesson about balancing by just dropping points.  It doesn't really work.  You either barely move the needle (see all the generics that still can't hang) or create monsters (Nantex and Wookiees*).  The token increases on things like Boba and Zizi (lol) didn't even make a dent.

(*I really think that in a world w/o Nantexes people would be griping about quad Wookiees.  Could be wrong.  That's my biggest whinge about Nantexes as they will probably be the only thing that gets patched out in November because they have just obscured everything.  e.g. is Rey actually stupid good or just good against this meta?  BTW Zizi is just stupid still.)

Edited by gamblertuba

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I agree with all of you.

The game itself is in pratically perfect health, due to the constant balancing of points to keep metas circulating.

What I also really enjoy is that if you find a good list (nor a top tier, but a good one), there are good chances that you can play it for a long time before having to change it  because of the points update.

What I truly miss about this game is the physical contact with the other players. Being in front of the opponent, and seeing his reaction (not only his voice) when I perform a good move or my reaction when he does it truly misses me. Jopefully a vaccine will be there soon (in a few months ?) to help bring back the social part of the game.

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1 hour ago, gamblertuba said:

(*I really think that in a world w/o Nantexes people would be griping about quad Wookiees.  Could be wrong.  That's my biggest whinge about Nantexes as they will probably be the only thing that gets patched out in November because they have just obscured everything.  e.g. is Rey actually stupid good or just good against this meta?  BTW Zizi is just stupid still.)

Following the Crait cut, I agree. Seems the Nantex has now fully warped the meta around itself and yet continues to boss things.

It's hard to say what will happen with it addressed. There are a lot of things in the mid Init range that may do fine against the beef, swarms, fat turrets and bombs, but simply cannot deal with the Nantex. 'Aces' have suffered too, though tanky, hard hitting I5/6 can cope. If not so tanky aces are now more balanced, they could be able to help bring more variety to the competition, along with the mid Inits that suffered from their dominance.

Much unknowns lie in the wake of the bugs, but I have a sneaky feeling that it's actually fine with their influence reduced.

But that's merely competitive X Wing. Casual is awesome sauce.

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3 hours ago, dezzmont said:

On top of this, faction balance (and levels of support) have been a critical issue and I suspect if we go another points change without major changes the game is going to collapse on itself, L5R style.

I am not familiar with what happened to L5R. I have been somewhat curious about the game but simply do not have the bandwidth for it.  Could you give a brief rundown, or perhaps in your case the very brief rundown. 

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12 minutes ago, Frimmel said:

Is this Nantex swarm thing (6 Nantex?) actually an in person thing? Or is it simply an online thing? 

I can imagine it being vastly reduced in number in person, but it's warping effect will exist nonetheless.

Good thing about it's power, you can ignore it exists, hold up your hands if you face it and celebrate your free thinking foresight if no one brings it.

You could just counter the counter, if countering is a thing you do :D

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2 hours ago, gamblertuba said:

I really think that in a world w/o Nantexes people would be griping about quad Wookiees.  Could be wrong.  That's my biggest whinge about Nantexes as they will probably be the only thing that gets patched out in November because they have just obscured everything.  e.g. is Rey actually stupid good or just good against this meta?  BTW Zizi is just stupid still.

I'm agreed with you here. Looking at the points change, I was scared of Wookiees, but then 6 Nanatex cropped up and presented a greater threat. Rey is definitely good, and definitely one of the best anti-Nantex pilots, so it's hard to gauge what her actual presence would be without bugs. She definitely would be around, though. Zizi is strong, better than Lu'lo in my opinion.

1 hour ago, Frimmel said:

Is this Nantex swarm thing (6 Nantex?) actually an in person thing? Or is it simply an online thing? 

6 Nantex won Coppa Starfighters Italia, a 54 person event 'in person.' 6 players took 6 Nantex.

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13 minutes ago, Mighty said:

Two weeks ago there was a large tournament in Italy. With 54 persons attending (in person). There were 6 Nantex lists (all with 6 ships). So... on larger events I would expect some Nantex spam.

edit: Source: https://listfortress.com/tournaments/1877 

I think larger event is the key.

Things can get quite meta and competitive here in SE UK, (in a very polite and friendly way), but top meta lists only become oppressive when the ships are easily accessible and already popular, like Rebel Beef, Boba, Imp aces. At their height, they can reach 40/50% representation at store tourneys.

Things like Jendon Inquisitors, Fenn Fangs, Cartel Mux, even going back to Whisper + Punishers, when they won majors and gained some notoriety, were never widely picked up and only appeared here and there.

I think people just don't really buy into meta lists that much, in general, likely in the knowledge that it will be certainly be nerfed.

As soon as you cross the 50 player threshold, representation begins to tilt.

But my experience is local, as much as it's a bit of a hotbed here, different locales have different ways.

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8 minutes ago, Cuz05 said:

I think people just don't really buy into meta lists that much, in general, likely in the knowledge that it will be certainly be nerfed.

I'm feeling this. I alluded to it in another thread in my wondering aloud about willingness to drop well north of US$100 to field a single list that might not even be legal for very long. I'm as guilty as anyone of dropping silly amounts of cash on a hobby, but that kind of outlay for a one-shot would give even me pause. 😎🍺

Digital is different, of course.

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