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Thinking about Deadeye Shot

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What about something like this?  Strip shields and do damage with the E-wings and wreak havoc with the A's. 

Gavin Darklighter (60)    
    Deadeye Shot (1)    
    Fire-Control System (2)    
    Plasma Torpedoes (8)    
    R3 Astromech (3)    
Ship total: 74  Half Points: 37  Threshold: 3    

Rogue Squadron Escort (51)    
    Deadeye Shot (1)    
    Fire-Control System (2)    
    Plasma Torpedoes (8)    
    R3 Astromech (3)    
Ship total: 65  Half Points: 33  Threshold: 3    
    
Phoenix Squadron Pilot (29)    
    Deadeye Shot (1)    
Ship total: 30  Half Points: 15  Threshold: 2    
    
Phoenix Squadron Pilot (29)    
    Deadeye Shot (1)    
Ship total: 30  Half Points: 15  Threshold: 2    
    
 Total: 199    
    
 

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On 10/2/2020 at 3:23 PM, Scum4Life said:

I've been wondering about deadeye paired with IG-88 B, tanking a shot wit the ability to shoot again means pushing even more crit effects through, and might salvage a really bad roll.

I think it's neato.  The cannon shot cannot trigger deadeye, but you could trigger deadeye on the primary when you roll poorly and spend your hit result so you miss and flip a crit.  Then shoot again against the same target, with the new crit possibly weakening them.

Trick is, IGs are bulky buddies and they don't fly in swarms, so I don't see them getting the bullseye all that often.  For the price, you can fly multiple deadeye ships instead.  The IGs need to be built for dealing lots of solid harm and/or ion tokens, with Deadeye being an added threat if they line you up.

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Bossk Gunner is another option, though it's pricey (9 squad points, must stress yourself and shoot again).  But it's two primary attacks, so two opportunities to deadeye.  I don't know of any scenarios where that's worth equipping to plan for though...

IMO deadeye swarms are going to be mean to Huge ships though.  It's often hard not to have the huge ship in bullseye, and if you burrow through the shields (or cheat with Seyn or concussion bombs), you easily flip a damage card.  None of them are like the standard deck though; they don't have an effect and immediately flip (the huge ship has to do some specific thing or spend an action to flip them), but that's fine enough.

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4 hours ago, Cpdio said:

What about Thane, fliping 2 cards...

I doubt it will be the best strategy, but I mean... its 1 point chum just go for it!

There are a lot more fundemental problems holding that back than 'you inefficiently spent 1 point on something that requires your opponent to be holding 2 damage cards.' Mainly that it is in Rebels, which means low key you don't want to do it.

It sounds like it would be great fun in a more casual list, or as a tech option against lots of larges if rebels ever find their footing again.

Edited by dezzmont

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4 hours ago, Cpdio said:

What about Thane, fliping 2 cards...

Really depends on the Meta. Under the reign of our Nantex overlords it wouldn't be worth it. 

If we ever see a medium/large base meta creep back in then double card Flipping Thane might be very good.

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So basically, Rebels and indeed Thane are already suboptimal choices in the meta.  :(  Nantex and the things that hunt them are about all that matter, so a Thane list might not be meta no matter how you build it.  Having to line up a bullseye and needing the target to be vulnerable to a double-flip just makes that harder.  The opportunity cost of the talent slot (which could be a lot of cards) is higher than the points cost of deadeye.

As for whether a double-flip is valuable, it's not just enemies with two damage cards.  For example, the following cards are immediately self-repairing, so deadeye thane could flip that same card twice and be good:

  • Panicked Pilot x2
  • Direct Hit x5

So about a fifth of the deck will just be good for a double-flip even if there's only one damage card.

The following could make Thane's attack hit harder, or mix with a direct hit etc flipped later.  This is trickier and Thane may want to not use his 2nd flip based on one of these being exposed, or may absolutely want to use it (e.g. hull breach).

  • Hull Breach x2
  • Structural Damage x2
  • Fuel Leak x2

That's another 5th of the deck that's at least interesting for a double-flip potential, but it's not necessarily "yes double flip" since some of them instead encourage holding onto hit/crit results.

And then there are other cards like Console Fire and Blinded Pilot that pay dividends later, but they don't really factor into whether the double flip is going to happen.

Last of all, Deadeye does broaden Thane's ability since it can convert a crit instead of spending it.  Based on what's flipped (and whether any facedown cards are left), Thane could then choose whether to spend another result to flip again.  It's just tough to get that bullseye and a crit at the right times to matter all that much.

 

Panicked Pilot and Direct Hit are neat options for double-flipping, but too low in frequency.  If half the deck was self-repairing then Thane would have some benefit in planning for a double and thus building for it.  As it stands, as said above, medium and large ships that tend to collect damage cards would be Deadeye Thane's natural prey, but they're not very meta right now either.

 

IMO the ability to flip a card on the Nantex is still interesting since it's the type of ship that likes to aggressively shed shots and not die even as you chip at it; deadeye and thane both let you bypass all defenses once the target is damaged.  But double-dipping in that effect still isn't a great choice.  You're better off with a TIE swarm (for example) that can cover lots of area with those bullseyes, and/or victimize multiple enemy ships or any of the bullseye'd ships that have facedown damage.

 

This is why Innese's post was such a delight.  Deadeye Thane is definitely not meta, it's just casual fun; he lived the dream killing Vader with a double flip.  ^_^  It's very rare and you just can't count on it, but in casual you can afford to build for it and hope for the stars to align for some fantastic one-round murder shenanigans.

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Deadeye Thane seems like a one-ship-one-upgrade example of a nice guideline in X-Wing Listbuilding.  It's sometimes better to diversify threats, than to double-down on a single niche mechanic.  There's some things which stack well (high-init high-modification shots) and there's some things which tend to suffer diminishing returns (damage card flipping, focus-passing).

Contrast to Thane with Marksmanship.  Thane can use his own pilot ability with a weak roll, or Marksmanship with a strong one.  Instead of only really benefiting in the rare case where you can use both DES and Thane's ability, you've opened up a new situation where you'll gain some sort of benefit.

Predator would be a nicer fit, but that costs a point more and isn't Hyperspace, so the compare isn't quite as clean.

 

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10 hours ago, theBitterFig said:

Contrast to Thane with Marksmanship.  Thane can use his own pilot ability with a weak roll, or Marksmanship with a strong one.  Instead of only really benefiting in the rare case where you can use both DES and Thane's ability, you've opened up a new situation where you'll gain some sort of benefit.

Agreed. Especially with the X-wing's role: soak and deal damage. If Thane isn't realiably doling out damage, but rather playing "Go fish" with his opponents cards, he's not pulling some of his weight. He needs to be doing damage and when optimal, triggering his ability. Also, nailing Bullseye in an X-wing isn't a fantastic prospect.

Compare to maybe Soontir doubling down with Deadeye and Optimized Prototype.  Soontir's role is to deal damage and avoid damage. Soontir is much happier to spend offensive dice results to keep all of his green tokens for defense. If he is in arc, he will save the tokens and just flip shields and cards. If he is out of arc, he can spend tokens to just deal damage. Also, it much easier to chase bullseye with an interceptor,  and Soontir wants that bullseye anyway.

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Hi folks, we just cannot resolve this question:

RZ-2 A-Wing equipped with

swz67_deadeye-shot.png    9f8baf4893cd90288df44b69b50fa788.png

 

 

If the attacker rolls (R1): Hit - blank - blank,

he chooses to spend Hit with Deadeye Shot.

Is he allowed to reroll the remaining two Blanks with Heroic?

One of our players argument against was:

Both talents refer to the same timing window (while you perform an attack), thus should be added to the ability queue, but Heroic cannot be added, because requirements are not met. After spending one Hit it is no more allowed to add Heroic.

Can you help?

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6 minutes ago, Damar said:

Hi folks, we just cannot resolve this question:

RZ-2 A-Wing equipped with

swz67_deadeye-shot.png    9f8baf4893cd90288df44b69b50fa788.png

 

 

If the attacker rolls (R1): Hit - blank - blank,

he chooses to spend Hit with Deadeye Shot.

Is he allowed to reroll the remaining two Blanks with Heroic?

One of our players argument against was:

Both talents refer to the same timing window (while you perform an attack), thus should be added to the ability queue, but Heroic cannot be added, because requirements are not met. After spending one Hit it is no more allowed to add Heroic.

Can you help?

I think it should work. The ability queue doesn’t really apply to rolls. Heroic only stats that you need 2 or more blanks while you perform the attack, so that would be at any point during the attack.

Also, Finn in the pod exploits Heroic in a similar fashion by being strained, rolling 1 defense die, getting a single blank, adding a blank and then using Heroic to reroll both dice. So it should work the same in this case IMO. 

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It's a very Rube Goldberg lest, but I've been having fun pairing Deadeye Shot with Gideon with a Marksmanship Seyn in Imperials. Seyn puts the card in under the shields, giving Gideon both an extra attack die and a target for the Deadeye Shot to work. Also pairs well with Juke Rexlar and still leaves you 52 points to play with. 

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Sorry to resurrect a thread 11 days late (I haven't been on the forums much).

On 11/2/2020 at 3:08 AM, Damar said:

Hi folks, we just cannot resolve this question:

 (snipped)

 

On 11/2/2020 at 7:14 AM, theBitterFig said:

Of course you can.

It's kind of the inverse of Han Solo with Heroic and Finn crew.  Roll 1 blank, add a 2nd with Finn, reroll with Heroic.

Yea, since other dice modification combos have thus far been treated as not having to obey the condition rules to go into the queue, this works too.  Until FFG says otherwise, all the dice modification stuff can go onto the queue and have something else satisfy their conditions before they resolve.

 

Back when we were looking at Heroic and Finn etc shenanigans, I speculated that any effect that allows spending a hit/crit/focus result (like Rose Tico) would be fantastic for Heroic.  I'm delighted to see this combo, though it's pretty specific (gotta get that a-wing to range 1 with bullseye, or be flying Lulo, and roll blank blank hit/crit/maybe-focus to spend with deadeye and trigger heroic).  However, it does a great job covering the common cases too (Heroic covers non-range-1 attacking really well; Deadeye is generally useful in an a-wing swarm, and combining both with Advanced Optics makes for a solid 40-point green squadron expert).  I don't know how strongly that affects the odds overall, but it feels good for two 1-point talents on an a-wing that likes to charge into near-ramming range.  ^_^  IMO worth running 5x RZ2s with Heroic + Deadeye + Advanced Optics.

Han holding Heroic + Rose Tico + Finn is also great shenanigans at about twice the price.  Tough to field a giant points pinata in the current meta though, and nobody wants to fly casual stuff anymore. :(

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On 1/6/2021 at 8:08 AM, topacesteve said:

Can Seyn Maranas ability and Deadeye shot Stack?

It can, but you would need the use Deadeye Shot first and still have a Critical result after that modification leftover to spend for Seyn's ability.

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On 1/6/2021 at 7:08 AM, topacesteve said:

Can Seyn Maranas ability and Deadeye shot Stack?

I put Deadeye on Seyn's buddies, and then give Seyn Marksmanship so she can put damage cards on targets (under their shields) for the team to flip.

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I should probably include the fleet I want to fly next time my group meets again post-virus.  5 TIEs to spam shots, block, etc as a swarm, and Duchess in a pseudo-utility and ace role to flank and clean up.  Her concussion bombs could also feed the deadeye users, letting them push damage onto targets that would otherwise evade.  Indeed, between Concussion, Seyn, and Deadeye, there's quite a bit of defense-bypassing going on, which may make some evasion-heavy lists sweat such as TIE or Vulture swarms (maybe even nantex swarms?  No, I don't dare hope hahaha).  I love the idea of Deadeye and Seyn using precision attacks to ignore defenses (like little kimogilas), while Duchess has wide-area defense-bypassing bombs.

I'm not leaving a bid so Duchess is not in full ace mode, but I think she'll do a lot of work all the same.  She can do quite a lot in a utility role.  And her gunner and other upgrades are quite negotiable, e.g. if investing in 5th Brother is suboptimal for the way she's flying.  I still need to put the list to the table.

 

Seyn Marana (29)    
    Marksmanship (1)    
Ship total: 30  Half Points: 15  Threshold: 2    
    
Gideon Hask (29)    
    Deadeye Shot (1)    
Ship total: 30  Half Points: 15  Threshold: 2    
    
Black Squadron Ace (25)    
    Deadeye Shot (1)    
Ship total: 26  Half Points: 13  Threshold: 2    
    
Black Squadron Ace (25)    
    Deadeye Shot (1)    
Ship total: 26  Half Points: 13  Threshold: 2    
    
Black Squadron Ace (25)    
    Deadeye Shot (1)    
Ship total: 26  Half Points: 13  Threshold: 2    
    
"Duchess" (44)    
    Deadeye Shot (1)    
    Fifth Brother (12)    
    Concussion Bombs (4)    
Ship total: 61  Half Points: 31  Threshold: 2    
    
Total: 199    
    
View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0: https://raithos.github.io/?f=Galactic Empire&d=v8ZsZ200Z224X125WY223X343WY227X343WY227X343WY227X343WY211X343W82W355W&sn=Deadeye and Seyn&obs=

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