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New points are up in the official app

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14 minutes ago, gamblertuba said:

Edit to ask.  Malarus with 6 FO is that a decent call for Angled Deflectors on Malarus?

Hrm.  I kinda think not.

Options include:

  • Captain Phasma crew, to maybe be quite disruptive in the midgame.
  • Commander Pyre, since becoming Koshka Frost defensively isn't bad.
  • Agent Terex, who can sling a few extra Calculates around.
  • Automated Targeting Protocols for everyone.
  • Shield Upgrade and just Focus. Tt doesn't make a big difference to single-turn survivability.

That said, Angled Deflectors is only 3 points, right?  At 3, that'd leave 4 points for the Sensor Buoy Suite.

 

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38 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:
  • 51-54 for the LAAT.  I know folks who wanted to run them as bruisers will be disappointed.  These have a powerful support ability and are probably worth the points.
    • Synced Laser Cannons at 6... 

Let me show you on the baby yoda plushie, where the bad FFG hurt me.

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1 minute ago, joeshmoe554 said:

Ghost Company feels pretty cheap at only 5 points, given they basically have the same ability as Bistan at 10 points, and add a linked action.  That may be largely due to the ships that can carry them though.

Rebels: 4 dice turret on Dash.

Republic: 2 dice on a LAAT, or 3 with an Ion Cannon turret on R2-D2 and only R2-D2 Y-Wing.

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24 minutes ago, Npmartian said:

Seismic charges probably won't see much use from here on until these change.

Still has the greater explosion radius, which is a thing against squirrely low hull targets.

3pts is hilarious. FFG probably thought being forced to fart bombs might self hurt. 

Compare also to the (overcosted) Cluster mine at whole 8 points.

 

40 minutes ago, Something Wicked said:

The new concussion bombs are only 3 points.  39 for a bombardment drone with struts, trajectory simulator and them.

I certainly gonna unpack Sol Sixxa again.

Sol Sixxa, Skilled Bombardier, Concussion bombs. 51pts, the bomb-carpet all over the place, yes please!

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11 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

Rebels: 4 dice turret on Dash.

Republic: 2 dice on a LAAT, or 3 with an Ion Cannon turret on R2-D2 and only R2-D2 Y-Wing.

But don't forget, ghost company will work on a Huge Ship 😜

Edited by ForceSensitive
First, ghost, same thing right?

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4 minutes ago, Managarmr said:

Still has the greater explosion radius, which is a thing against squirrely low hull targets.

3pts is hilarious. FFG probably thought being forced to fart bombs might self hurt. 

Compare also to the (overcosted) Cluster mine at whole 8 points.

 

I certainly gonna unpack Sol Sixxa again.

Sol Sixxa, Skilled Bombardier, Concussion bombs. 51pts, the bomb-carpet all over the place, yes please!

Clusters should be 4-5. They're strictly worse than proximity mines.

Gonna have a lot of fun with the new bombs, but for many ships being forced to dump your load like that is a bit of a drawback(especially if you don't HAVE reload).

That said, I'm going to go ham with them. I'm already bringing Sol Sixxa to a lot of games, so this is just gravy...

Also Nym with them has the potential to be really fun... Not to mention putting them on quadjumpers.

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41 minutes ago, FastWalker said:

FFG always starts cheap with new stuff.

LAAT/i wants a word with you. As do Multi-Missile Pods.

Synced cannons are fine, maybe will finally push the rest down. They should be more expensive than Ion, but Ion should be cheaper so.

Edited by ClassicalMoser

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Concussion Bombs

I think this is an attempt to make a really strong, hard read effect to push bombers as actually using bombs. Bombs are in this weird space where you often use Seismic Charges just for the aoe and price, or on Boba to get an effective 180 arc coverage situation going by dropping and turning so it covers your side, rather than proactively using them in the way that is actually interesting: Hard reads against people sticking too close. I think this might actually be a fair price for them, and it more indicates bombs overall are a bit overpriced.

I super get it, 1.0 was a spooky time and this is giving 1.0 vibes to people because its a strong effect that doesn't care about traditional arc coverage or dodging, but your probably not going to see this in 6 bomb lists reloading to turn off the downside, cuz those lists just lose to jousts too hard, and bombs are a high skill interaction (yes, even trajectory sim bombs, in fact trajectory simulator is historically a super terrible upgrade and while this has more synergy with it than most bombs by giving you options where you lack them if you start chain dropping, I still doubt people would pay 60 points for a generic resistance bomber with these and a sim).

Honestly, this strikes me as A: A way to push new product, especially to pesky non-lucrative rebel players who haven't gotten basically anything in any product that would seriously tempt them to buy more stuff, who would want these on Y-wings, and B: To test to see if payloads are just undertuned on most ships by making a bomb/mine Boba can't easily use in the way he uses protons or seismic. More of an experiment rather than an attempt to price it fairly compared to the other bombs, because bombs don't see a lot of play on ships that 'should' be using them.

Bonus points for point A? If it is a different shape than the proton bomb, rebel players can't easily proxy it like they can for say... Starbird Slash or Tailslide. I mean wanting to get access to a Proximity Mine is literally what got me to dip into Scum (along with a very sweet gift from a friend who now lives in another state and loves the scum ships and wanted me to take pictures of me flying them sending me a starviper). So, likewise, the fact it might be a 'rebel chase token' might get rebels to get some sep ships (especially as they likely want more than one copy of the bomb), and hey once you are there might as well buy a few droids and a box-set to have a full list amirite? I don't LIKE that model, but it makes a lot of sense.

Quote

Synced Laser Canon

So I said in the Brute thread that we were going to learn what FFG thinks about ion tokens and what they want canons to do, and so its interesting to essentially have it be 'confirmed' ion is considered the equivalent to damage if you assume access to range 1 is equal to the removal of the range 3 defense bonus, and slightly better if you consider 4 dice range 1 shots much stronger than that. Makes sense in a way: Vs small ships a single ion token generally results in the ship's destruction, but vs larger ones it doesn't have as much of an impact.

Quote

LAAT/i

Considering it basically passed out target locks to two other ships in your list without having to take an action, with a turret, and with 10 health, there is no reality where this could cost less. Its basically Dutch if Dutch was in a customized YT, but his ability was stronger. So 51 is, in some ways, on the lower side.

Put another way: Dutch is REALLY good and I would absolutely pay 11 points to give him a dorsal turret, an extra 3 health, and the ability to generate 3 locks total. And a crew slot on top? Obviously I can't shove Leia in there because its a different faction, but its kinda a crazy little ship when you actually think about getting 10 health, a bowtie, three effective actions a turn into your list, and crew slots.

Quote

Automatic Target Priority

Miss-Wing sucks. Its a terrible meta. I think FFG is aware of it, which is why they are putting so much power in stuff that can bypass agility based on good reads.

I am very glad this costs 1 point, it makes me feel like FFG 'gets' what I didn't like about the Boba/Droid meta (Which was not losing to a piece, but feeling like my ships would have multiple dead turns due to the defensive strength of them), and it makes me hopeful about other exciting options on the horizon that fill a similar niche, like Patience and Starbird. X-wing is a much more fun game when landing in an arc or otherwise getting out-predicted matters no matter what, even if your not taking damage that turn, and its kinda bad for the game when highly defensive aces basically aren't afraid of anything because its too easy for them to minimize the arcs they are in to the point they can just defensive mod down to 0 despite getting 'caught' or me knowing where they will end up being. 

Edited by dezzmont

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50 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

Hrm.  I kinda think not.

Options include:

  • Captain Phasma crew, to maybe be quite disruptive in the midgame.
  • Commander Pyre, since becoming Koshka Frost defensively isn't bad.
  • Agent Terex, who can sling a few extra Calculates around.
  • Automated Targeting Protocols for everyone.
  • Shield Upgrade and just Focus. Tt doesn't make a big difference to single-turn survivability.

That said, Angled Deflectors is only 3 points, right?  At 3, that'd leave 4 points for the Sensor Buoy Suite.

I'm not a fan of Angled Deflectors on Malarus.  Costs one shield upfront and costs a focus each time you reinforce (which would probably have saved at least one damage), so it doesn't help until reinforce has saved you at least 3 damage in one round or 4+ damage across multiple rounds.  I think I'll be happy with Malarus hanging out in back and lasting long enough that way.

I'll definitely have to try out Automated Targeting Protocols on everyone.  Passive double mods (ATP + Malarus) while having a swarm bump-fest could be effective.

I'll also want to try Sensor Buoys (plus Proud Tradition?  Rivas?).  They seem like they could be fairly survivable if you put them inside obstacles, but placement will be tricky and they might end up shaping the battlefield more than they'd actually provide locks.

Phasma seems limited by the 0-1 range with Malarus wanting to stay in back.  Terex could work but my first impression is that ATP looks like a better source of calculates.  Lots of fun options to try, though!  I'm excited that we get Malarus + 6x FO and some room to play with upgrades.

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Oh... I just thought of a big problem with Automated Targeting Protocols.  Say you have a swarm of FO all with ATP and all at the same initiative.  If your first couple attacks destroy a ship, it's still a valid target because it's not removed until the next initiative.  Does that mean the remaining ATP ships have to keep attacking the already-destroyed ship rather than attack a non-destroyed ship at longer range?

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1 hour ago, ForceSensitive said:

But don't forget, ghost company will work on a Huge Ship 😜

Technically true.  Practically irrelevant, since you can't get extra bonus attacks with the special weapons.

Linked red Focus might be nice, though.  Costs an energy, but when you need to rotate your guns and still want some mods, it looks OK.

26 minutes ago, dezzmont said:

I think this is an attempt to make a really strong, hard read effect to push bombers as actually using bombs. Bombs are in this weird space where you often use Seismic Charges just for the aoe and price, or on Boba to get an effective 180 arc coverage situation going by dropping and turning so it covers your side, rather than proactively using them in the way that is actually interesting: Hard reads against people sticking too close. I think this might actually be a fair price for them, and it more indicates bombs overall are a bit overpriced.

I mean, they could have just lowered the cost of Proton Bombs.

They can lower the cost of old bombs, without making this 'damage under shields' ability which shouldn't be in the game.

1 minute ago, Gausebeck said:

I'll definitely have to try out Automated Targeting Protocols on everyone.  Passive double mods (ATP + Malarus) while having a swarm bump-fest could be effective.

ATP seems like it'll be an interesting thing to play with a bit.  It'll be interesting to feel out the effect, see what it means in terms of messing up target priorities.

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7 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

I mean, they could have just lowered the cost of Proton Bombs.

They can lower the cost of old bombs, without making this 'damage under shields' ability which shouldn't be in the game.

 

Yes, but that wouldn't get those non-financially viable rebel players to buy multiple droid gunships now, would it? Especially if that bomb token is a slightly different shape than a proton bomb and can't be proxied!

Also, I am not sure hitting under shields is that terrible. You can't generally take out a ship with that, so you eventually need to deal with the shield anyway. So it lets you bypass some of the effect of the shield to flip crits if you like... run a full crit-fisher combo, but alone your opponent can just decide between the crit and strain contextually. Bypassing shields  probably isn't going to be as impactful as you might think, especially when its on an effect like a bomb that is more defensive in nature and not extremely proactive. One of the problems with bombs in X-wings is sorta the equivalent to why advance ICE was bad so long in Netrunner: They aren't a proactive strategy to help you seize a win. They are a control tool to limit your opponent's options and punish mistakes.

They deserve to be in the mix but running 6 Y-wings with these things to try to force a kill on say...  a V-wing, probably isn't going to be an amazing strategy, because bombs require your list to be threatening enough that your opponent doesn't just play entirely around the bomb and kill you at their leisure constantly avoiding landing behind you. The only time this is really hard is on ships where you really need to get range 1 on them at all costs (like Boba) which is probably why the downside is evaluated so heavily: Boba kinda doesn't want to pay 3 points to get a bomb that just makes you disengage for 3 turns, despite paying 5 points for a bomb with a 'sidegraded' effect and 1 less charge.

Edited by dezzmont

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3 minutes ago, Gausebeck said:

Oh... I just thought of a big problem with Automated Targeting Protocols.  Say you have a swarm of FO all with ATP and all at the same initiative.  If your first couple attacks destroy a ship, it's still a valid target because it's not removed until the next initiative.  Does that mean the remaining ATP ships have to keep attacking the already-destroyed ship rather than attack a non-destroyed ship at longer range?

Yeah, that might be the case.  Big problem?  Hard to say.

2 minutes ago, dezzmont said:

Also, I am not sure hitting under shields is that terrible.

I just think it's something that should be *very* rare.  Like, maybe only Kylo does it.

When Grand Inquisitor goes down to two bombs without any say in the matter, it'll be utter BS.  It's the kind of design that just shouldn't be in the game.  Shields should matter.

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3 hours ago, Npmartian said:

BTL-A4 Y-wing - Gray Squadron Bomber - 33
    Gray Squadron Bomber - (30)
        Concussion Bombs (3)

BTL-A4 Y-wing - Gray Squadron Bomber - 33
    Gray Squadron Bomber - (30)
        Concussion Bombs (3)

BTL-A4 Y-wing - Gray Squadron Bomber - 33
    Gray Squadron Bomber - (30)
        Concussion Bombs (3)

BTL-A4 Y-wing - Gray Squadron Bomber - 33
    Gray Squadron Bomber - (30)
        Concussion Bombs (3)

BTL-A4 Y-wing - Gray Squadron Bomber - 33
    Gray Squadron Bomber - (30)
        Concussion Bombs (3)

BTL-A4 Y-wing - Gray Squadron Bomber - 33
    Gray Squadron Bomber - (30)
        Concussion Bombs (3)

Total: 198/200

View in the X-Wing Squad Builder

Elmo Rise | Know Your Meme

6 tie bombers with cluster missiles on 5, has some burny area control to... 4 punishers with trajectory simulator... 

Edited by Dwing

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15 minutes ago, KCDodger said:

These concussion bombs. It reads like you HAVE to deploy them? Help me out here.

It's like the old Pringles ad.

If all the charges there, the seal is intact.  Wait until you want to start.

But once you break that seal, the legions of **** aroma of potato crisps the bombs start flying, and you have to keep dropping them until you're done.  A timely reload is like putting the lid back on the can.

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