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Tyhar7

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Oh I hate Underslung Blaster Cannon. Oh I hate it.

I mean, I guess it's cool that T-70s can effectively have a reactive gunner now but... Yikes, I really hate that.

TBH this also directly hurts the T-65 X-Wing if I'm honest. Note that it says Resistance, X-Wing. This does not exclude Resistance T-65s if those ever happen or T-85s if and when those finally arrive.

This is horrible, I hate it. I hate it so much.

Edited by KCDodger

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@KCDodger

I'm sorta hearing what you're saying. 

Not really expecting to think about my T70s with a side arc in mind. 

Nice that it emphasizes the TL action, but that just feeds into initiative and agency issues. 

There is some counterplay if you're low Init and use it to control enemy repositions, but needing to rotate and still have a lock is super restricting...

...unless you can get double actions. 

*Sigh

______

P.s....

I actually really like the design of Tailspin for X-Wings and the added value for their repos at high level competition. I often opt to repo with jousters and throw naked dice to create more optimal vectors. 

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4 minutes ago, Bucknife said:

@KCDodger

I'm sorta hearing what you're saying. 

Not really expecting to think about my T70s with a side arc in mind. 

Nice that it emphasizes the TL action, but that just feeds into initiative and agency issues. 

There is some counterplay if you're low Init and use it to control enemy repositions, but needing to rotate and still have a lock is super restricting...

...unless you can get double actions. 

*Sigh

______

P.s....

I actually really like the design of Tailspin for X-Wings and the added value for their repos at high level competition. I often opt to repo with jousters and throw naked dice to create more optimal vectors. 

As a Y-Wing pilot, this is what I'd do - I'd just lock it to the back and target lock at range 3, slow down my X-Wing and let it cruise through the fight. Oh no, I've been passed at range one and my enemy's behind me now? He K-Turned maybe? Wow what a shame he's going to get a shot off on me, let me thump him out of existence real quick.

I don't think secondary weapons apply range bonuses but wouldn't this technically be able to pop out 3 attack at range? I mean, an X-Wing with 3 ATK - 3 RNG / 2 ATK - 1 RNG is bad enough but 3/3ATK 3-1RNG is absolutely heinous.

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8 minutes ago, KCDodger said:

Hold the frak up, this is basically a turreted snapshot. If your Talent is Snapshot AND you have this, are you able to cough out three attacks, two of which are on-enemy-movement and one of which is engagement phase?

Like hold ON a second.

Only ever aloud one bonus attack 

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I did a mathematical analysis of the underslung when it was spoiled.

The long and short of it is that the double attack is almost certainly not going to be very valuable if your firing at someone in front arc compared to spending the TL on the first attack (The long and short of it is that vs a 2 dice defender your gaining .8 damage but giving up 1.0 damage, average, from not target locking your first shot. If your focused and have the TL your gaining .1 damage, but that is a weird scenario to build around, and vs 3 defense dice your losing again on damage). So its really about being able to fire out the sides or back as a dorsal turret with multiple downsides. Dorsal turrets aren't that good, but the X-wing would be a much stronger ship to have one on than a Y-wing.

So this is going to be a very points sensitive upgrade. If it is priced similarly to Snapshot, it probably will see a similar level of play as Snapshot. If it is priced as Dorsal, or a bit higher, it will be a really good arc-coverage tool on X-wings if they can spare the lock. Ideally its somewhere between there.

The obvious exception is Lt. Bastain, who can spend the lock on their initial attack to generate a damage card, and have the lock ready for the followup attack, which means your not losing the expected damage from the lock on the 4 dicer to get a locked 2 dicer, but instead immediately getting a bit of extra damage in there. That said, 2 dice attacks are still... really inconsistent and your giving up some of Bastain's action economy to try to get an attack that does statistically less than 1 damage vs an unfocused X-wing, as opposed to setting up a future double-modded shot with Bastain or being able to use your actions for other stuff. In that scenario, your still getting an advantage, but almost certainly not multiple points worth of advantages.

TL;DR: 2 dice unmodded bonus attacks are just... kinda not worth as much as a target lock or focus on a primary attack, certainly not to the point you would pay for the right to trade a focus or TL for a unmodded bonus attack. So the value here HAS to be in the side arc/rear arc option.

Edited by dezzmont

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55 minutes ago, dezzmont said:

I did a mathematical analysis of the underslung when it was spoiled.

The long and short of it is that the double attack is almost certainly not going to be very valuable if your firing at someone in front arc compared to spending the TL on the first attack (The long and short of it is that vs a 2 dice defender your gaining .8 damage but giving up 1.0 damage, average, from not target locking your first shot. If your focused and have the TL your gaining .1 damage, but that is a weird scenario to build around, and vs 3 defense dice your losing again on damage). So its really about being able to fire out the sides or back as a dorsal turret with multiple downsides. Dorsal turrets aren't that good, but the X-wing would be a much stronger ship to have one on than a Y-wing.

So this is going to be a very points sensitive upgrade. If it is priced similarly to Snapshot, it probably will see a similar level of play as Snapshot. If it is priced as Dorsal, or a bit higher, it will be a really good arc-coverage tool on X-wings if they can spare the lock. Ideally its somewhere between there.

The obvious exception is Lt. Bastain, who can spend the lock on their initial attack to generate a damage card, and have the lock ready for the followup attack, which means your not losing the expected damage from the lock on the 4 dicer to get a locked 2 dicer, but instead immediately getting a bit of extra damage in there. That said, 2 dice attacks are still... really inconsistent and your giving up some of Bastain's action economy to try to get an attack that does statistically less than 1 damage vs an unfocused X-wing, as opposed to setting up a future double-modded shot with Bastain or being able to use your actions for other stuff. In that scenario, your still getting an advantage, but almost certainly not multiple points worth of advantages.

TL;DR: 2 dice unmodded bonus attacks are just... kinda not worth as much as a target lock or focus on a primary attack, certainly not to the point you would pay for the right to trade a focus or TL for a unmodded bonus attack. So the value here HAS to be in the side arc/rear arc option.

I wonder what the maths like if you had Bastian underslung blaster with R3 and target synchronizer. Let him set up the targets and target sync can ease the restriction. Then some generics with underslung blaster?

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1 hour ago, KCDodger said:

Oh I hate Underslung Blaster Cannon. Oh I hate it.

I mean, I guess it's cool that T-70s can effectively have a reactive gunner now but... Yikes, I really hate that.

TBH this also directly hurts the T-65 X-Wing if I'm honest. Note that it says Resistance, X-Wing. This does not exclude Resistance T-65s if those ever happen or T-85s if and when those finally arrive.

This is horrible, I hate it. I hate it so much.

To be frank I play both rebel and Resistance, but ita mostly been resistance of late. 

Currently the T-70 has been paying a points tax for its payload option and has very little that actually good on it. Giving the T-70 a cannon with limited arc is pretty **** good, even with the restriction.

However yeah the T-65 could use some toys too but there's not need to hate on the T-70 getting some love. The T-65 lives in a faction with alot of other chassis to assume roles. Resistance has very few chassis, even less that are meta viable, and lacking in key areas. This cannon allows the T-70 to somewhat proxy an ARC, allowing a little more time on target, its an adaptable chassis, implied by it ability. The t-65 is more focused.

Sure I would like to see some cool things on the t-65 to make that ship feel different, hopefully phoenix squadron pack will have some stuff. 

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I think I mathed that out and was more optimistic about that, but I don't recall it exactly. I can try to re run the numbers, or someone else could! It comes down heavily to points iirc because a 2 dice no mod attack vs 2 green isn't doing a lot. It basically is just flat out snapshot at that point and snap shot is reaaalllly darn bad at its current cost. 

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2 hours ago, KCDodger said:

Oh I hate Underslung Blaster Cannon. Oh I hate it.

I mean, I guess it's cool that T-70s can effectively have a reactive gunner now but... Yikes, I really hate that.

TBH this also directly hurts the T-65 X-Wing if I'm honest. Note that it says Resistance, X-Wing. This does not exclude Resistance T-65s if those ever happen or T-85s if and when those finally arrive.

This is horrible, I hate it. I hate it so much.

From multiple I5’s to toys for X Wings, the Resistance seems to be making the Rebels redundant. I don’t play either, but it feels like the Rebels are being screwed right now. 

Edited by Archangelspiv

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2 hours ago, Archangelspiv said:

From multiple I5’s to toys for X Wings, the Resistance seems to be making the Rebels redundant. I don’t play either, but it feels like the Rebels are being screwed right now. 

As a rebels main, I am glad people are noticing but would be more glad if FFG bought me dinner first.

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2 hours ago, Archangelspiv said:

I don’t play either, but it feels like the Rebels are being screwed right now. 

Yes. Yes it is. When it comes to faction identity, the Resistance is basically the rebels, but better, and  FFG treats them as the favorite child. They need to stop with the T70 and RZ2 pilots. I get their cool ships, and they are staples for the faction, but the T70 x wing has  14 different pilots! That is a lot of pilots! and the RZ2 has 9. This is crazy considering that the rebel A wing has 4, and so does the TIE interceptor. The least they could have done was to make the overdrive thrusters x wing limited. Don't get me wrong, I love new content, even for a faction I don't play, but com'on FFG. Throw the rebels a bone! The one thing this has done is set the bar for the phoenix squadron pack high. Like really high. 

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3 minutes ago, Gupa-nupa said:

Throw the rebels a bone! The one thing this has done is set the bar for the phoenix squadron pack high. Like really high. 

I think people, including FFG, really underestimate how big a deal faction identity is to players.

I mean that was a huuuuge mistake they made with L5R, which is kinda bonkers considering L5R's entire community is based around faction identity and what was special about its tournament structure was the struggle between factions for perks in the canonical story and players identifying strongly with a faction.

Star Wars is a licensed game, and the most iconic faction in the license, rebels, is kinda low key treated like dirt, which is just confusing and hurts the game's growth potential because new players are most likely to gravitate towards the faction they recognize most. It would be like if 40k just didn't bother releasing Space Marine stuff ever because 'space marines already own a ton of minis.'

So L5R collapsed, in part, due to a critical faction imbalance that FFG just wasn't interested in fixing. I suspect X-wing might risk a similar fate, because its too focused on tournament players who will happily faction jump because to them factions are functions, rather than identity, as opposed to the more casual playerbase (which, you know, drive FLGS sales that keep the product alive) who not only don't have anything to buy, but feel actively snubbed?

Reminds me of 'Priest Lives Matter' (God the name of that 'movement' didn't age well) from hearthstone, when the balance of the priest class got so amazingly bad players across the different classes basically bombarded Bliz's social media and refused to buy more packs because priest had been the bottom class of the tier list for over a year and HS is a game where 'class identity' matters, and no one was happy seeing an entire category of player for a very popular class from Warcraft (Who DOESN'T love their healer and want them to have a good time playing the card game for the universe?) just have a miserable experience with decks that tended to have a 'high end' winrate of like 48%.

This stuff MATTERS. No ladder climber in HS cared, no tournament player cared, but its bad for the community for the game to just... not support a type of player at all in the ways they need to be supported. If Phoenix Cell isn't a dramatic value, I think that is going to be actively bad structurally for X-wing.

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10 hours ago, Gupa-nupa said:

Yes. Yes it is. When it comes to faction identity, the Resistance is basically the rebels, but better, and  FFG treats them as the favorite child. They need to stop with the T70 and RZ2 pilots. I get their cool ships, and they are staples for the faction, but the T70 x wing has  14 different pilots! That is a lot of pilots! and the RZ2 has 9. This is crazy considering that the rebel A wing has 4, and so does the TIE interceptor. The least they could have done was to make the overdrive thrusters x wing limited. Don't get me wrong, I love new content, even for a faction I don't play, but com'on FFG. Throw the rebels a bone! The one thing this has done is set the bar for the phoenix squadron pack high. Like really high. 

Yeah sorry, I'm not seeing it!  The Rebels have 17 different chassis to pick from and far more synerginistic abilities than the Resistance.

The Resistance has one bomber which is meta useless. One support ship, which is meta useless save Cova, who is used more as an attack ship. The least optimal Falcon, with what might as well be an I6 generic Han. Rey is pretty solid now granted. The pods and fireballs are filler. All it really has is the T-70 workhorse and the top tier RZ-2 A-wing. Nothing wrong with a little more meat on those two chassis plus some mods to make them function differently to fill in the lack of chassis. Sure we could of had a brand new chassis, new Y-wing or B-wing or T-85 but how much hate would you be giving the faction if the first two had come out, being even better than rebel versions, especially when the b-wings just got an upgrade.

That said, sure the Rebel A-wing could do with some new pilots and upgrades, but come on, you just got Dash back in the mix and you're complaining? No need to hate on Resistance having some identity too. They needed the boost, meta optimal list were limited on the faction.

Edited by Tyhar7

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18 minutes ago, Arkanta974 said:

Wait for the phoenix squadron pack, may be x-wing and a-wing too ?

 

Here's to hoping. As an Imperial player I would love to more than just Soontir in an Interceptor. Imagine 9 Interceptor pilots, you may have to include "Fels Wrath", but to have that kind of choice would be amazing. 

I am hoping 2021 is a year of bulking out what we have, 1.0 ships being reprinted to 2.0 like the TIE Bomber. I don't want to go to tournaments and a majority of the lists are Resistance, I enjoy the diversity of the 7 factions, releasing for a majority of them at the same time would be appreciated. I know there is the Imperial Squadron box coming soon, will every faction get one?

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1 hour ago, Archangelspiv said:

Here's to hoping. As an Imperial player I would love to more than just Soontir in an Interceptor. Imagine 9 Interceptor pilots, you may have to include "Fels Wrath", but to have that kind of choice would be amazing.

Legends : Fel's Wrath, Lt Lorrir,  Canor Jax, Kir Kanos.

Canon : Vult Skarris, Ciena Ree, Gideon Hask, Nash Windrider.

I have some faith especially with the return of squadron pack ! :)

2 hours ago, Archangelspiv said:

 will every faction get one?

Yes I don't see why no one will don't have one, especially if FFG want to bring news players or give some veteran a bone to chew.

 

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14 hours ago, Archangelspiv said:

From multiple I5’s to toys for X Wings, the Resistance seems to be making the Rebels redundant. I don’t play either, but it feels like the Rebels are being screwed right now. 

Pretty much yeah. The rebels have some goodies in their old conversion kit, especially now with the points alterations. Dash looks good, for example.

But if you wanted to fly X and A wings, may as well fly resistance. Rebels, but better. 

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