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That Blasted Samophlange

Fury of the Empire (TIE Brute article)

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I think the issue is somewhat that we were a conversion-kit-only faction for the most part. We haven't had any new ships since Saw's (and that was just pilots) so the vast majority of our stuff was designed to avoid the worries of early 2nd edition. Now, as synergy lists that rebels do well just aren't that good, and power continues to creep, rebels feel like they desperately need some kind of change or push to make their stuff work as the chassis we have just don't keep up in efficiency. I'll admit I have no idea what the change should exactly be, but it really feels like it needs to happen.

Edited by Npmartian

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10 minutes ago, Npmartian said:

I think the issue is somewhat that we were a conversion-kit-only faction for the most part. We haven't had any new ships since Saw's (and that was just pilots) so the vast majority of our stuff was designed to avoid the worries of early 2nd edition. Now, as synergy lists that rebels do well just aren't that good, and power continues to creep, rebels feel like they desperately need some kind of change or push to make their stuff work as the chassis we have just don't keep up in efficiency. I'll admit I have no idea what the change should exactly be, but it really feels like it needs to happen.

I really hope that the "Chassis specific Talents" can do a lot to help Rebels. Between the Starbird Slash, and whatever they come up with for the X-Wing, I just hope that they have options that don't just automatically work better for the Resistance.

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1 hour ago, GuacCousteau said:

Now we have a ship that can get slightly situation double mods for absolutely no cost. 

You just described any ship with a lock action or near Howlrunner, both of which have been around since wave 1 of 1.0. If there's power creep here, I'm not seeing it.

These things won't get locks easily anyway with their low initiative. They'll be full of crits given they only roll one defense, have a medium base, and are missing shields.

1 hour ago, GuacCousteau said:

But now we're getting to a situation where every ship needs either a quality linked action, economy based ship ability or access to at least one free token or re-roll. And not every ship has that.

Most ships have that. Some ships that have it are still trash (like the RZ-1) and some that don't are fantastic (like the scyk). It's all about pricing, and the devs can adjust that. "Overpowered" just means "Underpriced."

Naturally, NPE is a separate matter. We don't have to get into that here.

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1 hour ago, GuacCousteau said:

Okay?

Does that stop them spending a lock and up to two calculates on a 3 dice Synced cannon attack that denies the range bonus?

It does if by Initiative 1/3/4 you are dead lol 

A 1 agility ship with no shields forgoing its reinforce to be fully offensive could get you killed/crit ruined before you get to use those aggressive tokens.

Personally speaking, I see myself using the Manoeuvre assist version way more than the targeting. Low Initiative ships taking locks doesn't usually end well, and a red roll turns off the calculate ability for the Targeting card. 

I much prefer the idea of having a better dial and a white roll into a red calc when needed.

You could maybe just throw the targeting card and synced lasers on the I1 and hope into the engagement phases that you can get a useable lock and then keep at least 1 ship in arc and not at range 1 lol But for me, sounds like too many hoops to be that good. 

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1 hour ago, Gupa-nupa said:

I dont think anyone will take maneuver assist...

Unless you are running Synched Cannons, I kind of prefer the Maneuver Assist. White Barrel Roll is quite nice. I am guessing it doesn't have a gunner slot, so the double calculate isn't that exciting. 

It is an interesting ship, with quite a few different ways to play it. 

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Just now, Sithborg said:

Unless you are running Synched Cannons, I kind of prefer the Maneuver Assist. White Barrel Roll is quite nice. I am guessing it doesn't have a gunner slot, so the double calculate isn't that exciting. 

It is an interesting ship, with quite a few different ways to play it. 

I don’t understand why you would run it without the cannons. 

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3 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

@That Blasted Samophlange

Might want to copy this into the front page post, so the dial is there too.

swz67_a1_ship_art.png

That dial feels a bit strange. Almost like an slightly worse e-wing with different blues and red hard 3s, and it's actually arguably better with the configuration. 

Edited by Npmartian

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1 minute ago, PaulRuddSays said:

I don’t understand why you would run it without the cannons. 

Because Rampage and Autoblasters could rock. And Ion is an amazing cannon anyway. 

 

 

4 minutes ago, Sithborg said:

Unless you are running Synched Cannons, I kind of prefer the Maneuver Assist. White Barrel Roll is quite nice. I am guessing it doesn't have a gunner slot, so the double calculate isn't that exciting. 

It is an interesting ship, with quite a few different ways to play it. 

Double calc is ok for attack/defence spending, and is basically made for the synced laser cannons (as if you spend the calc on your own dice, you then give the enemy back their range bonus, so having one as a 'back up' is good)

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2 minutes ago, InterceptorMad said:

Because Rampage and Autoblasters could rock. And Ion is an amazing cannon anyway. 

 

 

Double calc is ok for attack/defence spending, and is basically made for the synced laser cannons (as if you spend the calc on your own dice, you then give the enemy back their range bonus, so having one as a 'back up' is good)

Given the initiatives of the ship, it is not so great for defense. Yes, offense is great. Absolutely.  But there are other options people may prefer. 

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1 minute ago, DarthEnderX said:

So, this is my first 2.0 only ship.

Where does it show the upgrade slots?

When it's released, we'll get them on the updated PDFs and in the app/websites.

And I'm on your side @Sithborg, I'm team Manoeuvre assist. Just saying that's why the double calc is even a thing lol Because new cannons. 

Edited by InterceptorMad

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1 minute ago, RStan said:

Yall are asking the wrong questions here. I just want confirmation the droid ball with cannons rotates. Did I miss that in the article or during the Gencon announcement? 

They said it does rotate, from what I recall. Gencon announcement.

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15 minutes ago, Npmartian said:

That dial feels a bit strange. Almost like an slightly worse e-wing with different blues and red hard 3s, and it's actually arguably better with the configuration. 

When I first saw it, my mind went to its similarities with the SF’s 1E dial. The differences are swapping the blue 1 banks for the blue 2 banks and changing the sloops got t-rolls. 
I actually kind of dig the feel of the Brute being the design predecessor to the SF, both in how it moves and some of its offensive capabilities.

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1 hour ago, svelok said:

Xi thread: scum players whining about illicit slots

Brute thread: rebel players whining about... I'm not sure exactly

I share your exact sentiment, but the complaint this time isn't unfounded. Meaning, I think it's a bit irritating that in an exciting article about new stuff, there's a dampening of the mood as opposed to utilizing the complaint thread, but some things certainly have to be said about this expansion and its impact on the health of the game.

The Rebels are complaining about power creep, which has been steadily introduced into 2nd edition. Sure, the creep is always adjusted and nerfed every point change, but since you have to wait for a point change for it to occur, some of the pieces of whatever's newest will be overpowered. This is a constant state of the game that unfairly hurts certain archetypes, such as Rebel efficiency "point your gun and killbox" playstyles. This expansion isn't going to make a "sky is falling" impact on the game, but will be yet another entry into a trend that suppresses the game's most iconic craft and namesake. Most factions are able to weather the new flavor of the wave because even their efficiency pieces, albeit more fragile than T65's, are...how to put it...less boring than the T65, even if both they and the T65 stabilize to appropriate-ish costs.

I wouldn't be too concerned for Rebels though as they can fit 5 T65's in a Hyperspace list. That's not a great list, but it can be a solid foundation for one given just how efficient it is, forcing the opponent to simply fly better and be more efficient in decisions. Leia + 3 Blue Squadron Escorts is a very fun Hyperspace list and you can tweak it to preferences from that efficient base (such as making the Falcon a fat Lando and demoting a Blue to an A-Wing blocker).

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1 minute ago, SabineKey said:

When I first saw it, my mind went to its similarities with the SF’s 1E dial. The differences are swapping the blue 1 banks for the blue 2 banks and changing the sloops got t-rolls. 
I actually kind of dig the feel of the Brute being the design predecessor to the SF, both in how it moves and some of its offensive capabilities.

Yeah, I only briefly dabbled with FO/Empire in 1st edition so I don't remember the dials well, but that makes a lot of sense as a heavier predecessor. Still, this ship is shaping up to be really unique, but it certainly has a niche as sort of a durable, flanking hammer/anvil piece that's a bit faster than its Kimogila and ARC medium-base cousins.

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1 hour ago, PhantomFO said:

If they're running synced lasers, then it will probably be the cheaper way to get a Calculate action. I don't see that being more than a 2-point upgrade, and could even be a 0-1 pointer.

I kind of expect 0 points.  On paper, the TIE/rb isn't worth 34 points, IMHO.  But I think they'll probably be breakpointed to 34, so you don't see 6 of them, since I think that'd just be a problematic amount of health and board space.  So a 0-point config with at least Maneuver, if not also Targeting, seems plausible to me.

2 hours ago, Gupa-nupa said:

I dont think anyone will take maneuver assist...

I can see Maneuver being OK, since white barrel rolls on a medium base ship seems pretty nice, and you can get at least a calc mod with it.  Every turn can be Roll/Calc or Rotate/Calc so that's a lot of florkmargling (that is, practical mobility).  Just a lot of places you can put one of these and have a shot with mods.

Target Assist seems only good with Synced Laser Cannon.  I feel like you kinda need that 3rd attack die and a normal damage weapon for it to be practical.  Focus/Calc/Calc on 2 red dice, 3 with an Ion or Tractor Calculate, seems... superfluous?  Makes a lot of sense with SLC, even if ignoring the range bonus effect, just for having 3 normal dice to attack with.  For other weapons or none, I kinda guess I'd rather just have the positioning advantage, if not also a cost advantage (I presume Targeting isn't going to be cheaper than Maneuver... Same maybe, but not cheaper).

And I see @Sithborg has mostly ninja'd that.

16 minutes ago, PaulRuddSays said:

I don’t understand why you would run it without the cannons. 

Cost.  Cannon looks solid, to be sure.  Would I rather run a 34-ish point Maneuver RB as a massive pain of a blocker with good time-on-target?  Would I rather run a 41-ish point Targeting RB with SLC as a hard-hitting jouster?

I can see going either way, depending on the particular list, but I bet with SLC, this is 41 points or more, a lot like a TIE/sf with Gunner.  And it's usually better to run a TIE/sf without a gunner.

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27 minutes ago, Npmartian said:

That dial feels a bit strange. Almost like an slightly worse e-wing with different blues and red hard 3s, and it's actually arguably better with the configuration. 

Bah, meant to quote this.

It kind of reminds me of a cross between a Kimogila and a Scurrg.  Or a 1e TIE/sf dial, with T-Rolls instead of S-Loops.

Having only one practical hard turn and awkward flip moves is kinda standard for Medium Base ships, IMHO.

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Just now, theBitterFig said:

Bah, meant to quote this.

It kind of reminds me of a cross between a Kimogila and a Scurrg.  Or a 1e TIE/sf dial, with T-Rolls instead of S-Loops.

Having only one practical hard turn and awkward flip moves is kinda standard for Medium Base ships, IMHO.

Talon Rolls sure looked funky back in the day:

VFph0R6.png

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11 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

Bah, meant to quote this.

It kind of reminds me of a cross between a Kimogila and a Scurrg.  Or a 1e TIE/sf dial, with T-Rolls instead of S-Loops.

Having only one practical hard turn and awkward flip moves is kinda standard for Medium Base ships, IMHO.

Yeah, it really feels like a heavy TIE should: faster than other mediums by a bit, but also still a little clunky. However, this is a good time to mention that I just realized that the e-wing dial does not feel great and I'm a little disappointed.

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