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Bucknife

Old Faithful (Seeing competitive T-65s)

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What is wrong with 5X other than Nantex (which seem to be a massive outlier)? 

 

The main issue I have with 5X and anything with B wings is they seem to be boring. Are Xwing's not correctly costed? It feels like 38 I1 and 39 I2 would be really cheap. The Bwing... should that be 40pts for I2?  

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6 hours ago, Blail Blerg said:

What is wrong with 5X other than Nantex (which seem to be a massive outlier)? 

Even before the points change 5X under-preforms because it turns out that the X-wing isn't actually a particularly revolutionary jousting ship to be worth losing 3 ships compared to say... sep swarm. The ships have decent HP, but agility 2 is actually pretty vulnerable on a jouster if it isn't backed up by focus and isn't worth the cost really.

X-wings are probably priced 'correctly' in the sense they can't go down, but they aren't really... good at anything. 4 Fang is pretty much a strict upgrade on 5X, for example.

The fundamental game plan of 5X sorta... doesn't make sense as a place to position a generalist ship that is good at a little bit of everything.

Look at how an X-wing stacks up to a TIE purely as a jousting platform. Vs 2 red focused shots, a TIE goes down in 5.2 shots without spending focus, while an X-wing goes down in 7.3. So a net increase of 2.1 shots required, or to put it another way, a TIE loses 30% of the preformance of an X-wing defensively. But the price increase is nearly doubled, so its a pretty raw deal survivability wise vs say... Droid swarms, which are able to take that shot super consistently. Vs 3 red with focus, its 2.8 vs 4.2, or a a 33% increase in durability. Getting even close to a 40% performance increase defensively requires a truly stupid level of offensive firepower, like 4 red with focus and a target lock.

So X-wings, despite nominally being beefy brawlers, lose out on defensive efficiency compared to TIEs, which are among the more delicate swarm ships that are intended to try to arc dodge a little.

Offensively? Also not fantastic. 3 Red with focus does 2.25 damage each attack. Does 3 or 2 hits about evenly, with around a 10% chance of getting unlucky and landing only 1 hit. 2 Red with a focus does 1.5 damage, or a loss of around 33%. That may look really bad for the X-wing, but remember the more 'dense' your red dice are the better. Your little generic TIE swarm is far more points efficient offensively vs a 0 dice defender, but its rolling 0 5% of the time instead of 1, 1 37% instead of 10%, and caps at 2. So once evades are in the mix it suddenly becomes a super relevant fact that a 1 is no different than a 0 some of the time, but a 2 or 3 might be very different than a 1. In essence, low dice attacks have more of their overall percentage of shots actually being 0 damage, rather than whatever number you thought you rolled. So it should have worse average damage results vs consistently strong defenders. 

For example, an X-wing does 1.2 damage vs a 3 dice unfocused defender, while a TIE does .6, so its actually twice as efficient!

However, 5x has uhh... no pilot abilities to increase offensive power. Every other list in the game does. For example? Your TIE swarm prooobably has Howlrunner in it, or Sloane. In both instances, this makes the TIE actually far more deadly than its 2 dice would suggest. That 1 re-roll TIE now does .8 damage a shot, rather than .6, meaning 'downgrading' your X-wing swarm to a TIE swarm only makes you lose 25% of your offensive power. Oops, now the X-wing is just categorically worse in every respect at a terrible TIE swarm list of "Howlrunner and 7 Academy Pilots."

And then there is the advantage of large numbers of ships in terms of arc control and bumping and wearing down focus (you can, for example, with a ship number advantage, defensively mod while losing less of your offensive firepower), and the fact that a 5 ship list with single modding and no plan beyond shooting is basically putting all your faith in the dice (You remember how you have around a 50% chance of rolling only 1 or 2 hits? That REALLY matters if it happens early game and it costs you a kill in a trade) that really holds the X-wing back. The Blue squadies I-kill a lot of the trash generics, but true trash generics aren't often spammed anyway, like who makes a list of all I1 TIEs+Howl? So your often losing out to I-kills. You also can't consistently spike 3 damage to push past Boba or other super-defenders, forget about how you hard lose to lists like 4 Fang which can both prevent you from arc dodging, arc dodge you, and which have a ship ability that basically reads "I hard win Jousts unless you can force through 3 damage at LEAST every attack.'

And, worst of all, and this was something brought up a lot in relation to droids: X-wings are super vulnerable to losing ships, because losing one X-wing guts your offensive firepower pretty hard as suddenly your just doing 20% less damage, which matters a lot with how easy it is to get an X-wing into multiple arcs. For example, vs Howl and 6 Black Squaddies (Again, a terrible list, but still better than 5X), on a straight up range 2 Joust, you lose 1.5 ships to the swarm. Your now firing back and take out 2 TIEs. The TIEs return fire, killing 1 X-wing, bringing you down to 3, and suddenly your only killing 1 TIE on your turn, bringing their numbers down from 6 to 5. They return fire, kill an X-wing, and your down to 2. You kill a TIE, its 4v2, they finish off another X-wing, your solo X-wing fails to kill a TIE, and you lose on pure joust.

It gets worse if you ever close to range 1, the TIEs ever arc dodge, or a TIE ever blocks an X-wing. And, again, this is a TERRIBLE list. Sloane swarm just completely anihilates 5x cuz they got people with 3 native red dice, the re-rolls, and the ability to stress you and force you to do a blue or lose the joust, meaning that they can force ard dodges on you. No swarm list is ever going to head to head rebels cuz they generally don't have too, and because jousting, even if you think you could win, is probably not a great plan cuz your giving up everything to the dice gods. So even the 'best' jousting list should ideally be using high skill elements to help its winrate. X-wings have the boost focus to try to dodge and get into range 1 for a 'free' attack, but if your being jousted that might not even matter if you can't dodge with enough to rob your opponent of enough targets to efficiently assign damage, so its sorta a wash.

In short?

 4gcc0b.jpg

The fundamental limitations of depending on 5 ships with a shared health pool of 20 and 12 red dice between them with no special effects of any sort to gain mods, control the enemy, or do really anything prevent this list from ever being good. 5X's current winrate hovers around 40% according to Metawing, which is truly appalling as far as winrates go. Imagine if after you won a game if you rolled a blank you actually just automatically lose. Thats... that's reaaaal bad.

 So the list is too weak to work, and its the best T-65 list right now so... buff it, right?

The problem is, you can't really... lower the point of T-65s, even if you don't go past the 33 breakpoint, because ships in X-wing sorta have a minimum price based on their surrounding faction tools. You can't just worry about 6X, you need to worry about XXXUU, which would happen if the Blue Squaddie dropped 2 points. Or you would need to worry about B-wings, because dropping the X-wing even by 1 more point allows you to replace a generic X-wing with a B-wing for every X-wing you take, allowing XXXBB. And while these lists may not be as degenerate as old beef they are now really annoyingly chunky and also you need to start worrying about the things you start getting to mix again. Drops in the X-wing in theory make an oldschool beef list more possible again.

This is why pinning the hopes and dreams of the T-65 on Blue Squaddies and the 5X plan is... frankly... silly. Think about it: if you downgrade 1 ship, you get so much absurdly more in pilot abilities or stronger ships (or both, I mean 4 Fang gets both a ship that just categorically outjousts the X-wing, and out dodges it and out initiatives it so it can do both better, but it could also just casually take a ton of torps, or Fearless and Fenn Rau), so going all generics only really makes sense if the ship is severely undercosted on stats (The X-wing isn't) or its so cheap you can basically max out the ships in the list and give them a useful synergistic upgrade. The T-65 all generic list needs to compete with every other beefy jousty list you could potentially run in the game, and with no unique hooks, its only argument can be made off raw stats, and that shouldn't be a compelling argument because you don't want raw stats without the context of support, combos, synergy, whatever, to work as a strategy. It is actually generally a mark of bad game design if the simplest most basic option of 'fight head on using no special abilities or powers or synergies' is a viable strat. Who the heck would play a game where its just about playing big stuff and hitting things?

This is also why, despite 5X being the most popular rebel archetype, and the highest winrate archetype, it isn't the plurality of their tournament archetypes. Rebels, despite their truly, truly awful performance and general winrates, are very well represented at tournaments, sometimes the faction is over-represented by 100% (meaning, instead of out of every 7 pilots flying rebel, its 1 every 3 or 4), but most rebel lists aren't 5X because 5X is, as you noted, boring as ****. Factions aren't sold on their generics unless their generics are super special and razzle dazzle and fit into a grander strategy (The MTG Green effect: Green creatures are bigguns and super efficient for cost, but that is only the start, not the end, and green makes this clear). Game are about mechanics evoking strong feelings that 'bond' a player to them, especially collectable games, which is why despite 'Counterspell being NPE' its been in every set of MTG ever: Counterspell makes both players FEEL THINGS. No one feels anything about a T-65, but they feel stuff about Kyle passing a clutch focus or Dash doing a K-turn over some debris and landing a clutch 6 dice Bistan double-tap, even if those things are bad.

The greatest sin, and it is truly a horrible sin, of 5X, is that its not just a bad list, but its the best list rebels got right now and it isn't fun to play. The fun stuff should be the strong stuff too.

 

Edited by dezzmont

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Spot-on, Dezzi, as usual. 

Every fact doesn't really have to be correct to agree that generic T65s are going to need some help to be both good and fun again. 

Wave 1, 5X would've been stellar (but so was 4x or 3x with Torps, so there's that...). Heck, R3 Dutch Y-wing with Torps and friends were my first squads of 2e....and those were some serious good and fun games.

Rebels felt awesome back in wave 1&2. I felt like I could actually build almost any list with their fighter line in any loadouts and it was pretty awesome.

I think certain chassis pushed the meta a lot harder than ffg expected, and Rebels and T65s haven't really recovered. 

RZ2s, Delta7s, Vultures, TIE Punishers and the outcry against 9pt Torps... (I'm actually very close to settled that 9pt Torps would be super healthy in the current 7 Faction game). 

A lot of tiny issues over the last 6 waves have made being a Toolbox Faction basically impossible for Rebel competition. 

I've also beat this other horse to death over on various Resistance threads. 

No, cheaper Torps do not fix the Rebel arsenal's lack of identity and competitive variety.

They obviously need more than that. 

But Rebellions are apparently built on Hope...so...

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I think rebels got nerfed, but we as players have stubbornly stuck with our rebel beef. Rebels are no longer a beefy faction, and we probably won't be until we get a new ship to bring us in line with the power creep.

However, we have got Norra Wexly. 

She can singlehandedly joust jousting lists and take minimal damage.

Norra really elevates X-wings by playing the "beef" role so they can circle around and lay down fire. For example, she has soaked up 2 APTS and 3 concussion bombs, so when the X-wings arrived, the enemy didn't have any charges left to fight me with. Norra died, but she won the game by drawing fire so luke & Thane made it to the endgame. 

Basically, they can't be the swiss army knife in the list. Different pilots play different roles in the squad, but all X-wings like to stay away from multiple arcs, and prefer to use their offensive power to deal enough damage that they have a numbers/health advantage in the endgame.  

The Pilots all have potential:

I expect luke to make a comeback in the sloane/nantex meta, since he's high initative and can shrug off 2-dice attacks, especially with jyn erso for evades. 

Wedge is still good, but he's pretty expensive for a ship that is such a big target with such low defense. He's probably best with a scarier friend like dash or han, not in 4-ship rebel salads (remember, salad, not beef. We have better salads than beef right now) however, wedge with lots of upgrades is incredibly hard-hitting and worth his points, but again, he needs a friend to draw fire.

Thane Kyrell is criminally underrated. His best feature is the fact he can penetrate defense dice when flipping cards, and he gets to see them all and then pick one. This means he knows whether or not he wants to use his ability next attack or if he should just go for damage. I've heard people say the ability isn't consequential very often, but in my expiration it very much is. If he's shooting first (a pretty common thing) he can neuter an enemy's offense with blinded pilot or weapons failure, or he could cripple their manuverabilty with loose stabilizer, disabled power regulator (deals ion), or damaged engine. I can go on and on with every crit in the game (except stunned pilot, that one is never important) but you get the point. Did I mention direct hits let him do Auto-damage? That's only Thane's first perk. His ability also let's him hurt the enemy with focus results while keeping his focus for defense, or when he doesn't have any tokens due to stress, jam, etc. His price also makes him very affordable and expendable if you need to trade up.

The Partisans are generally bad, except for the Tube Boy. He needs a little support, but he's basically a rebel DBS-404.  He can swoop in with an APT and hit the enemy hard before he dies.  Not for everybody, but if you want to add some punch in your list, and you already have I1/I2 coordinate, he's your man.

Jek porkins is generally jank, but I believe he makes cut every now and then in the hands of an experienced player who knows when and when not to "hold it". 

The generics, I don't have much experience with, but in my games with them, I find that they are very versatile filler, in between a torrent and a ARC. They have the dice and health to help with jousts and they have the reposition options to block. Again, close the foils if you need to get the block off, you don't always need the three dice. 

(Note: my thoughts on generics apply to ONE X-wing. Don't try to spam them, it's not good. Remember, Rebel Salad, not Rebel Beef)

Also, never be afraid to close the foils. That focus+boost makes them excellent at hit-and run, and they shine even further if you have jyn erso to let them evade if needed. (Yes, I did the math and evade>focus for 2 green dice)

I think we need to shift our views of X-wings as beefy frontline generalists, but more as they were portrayed in media: Escort fighters. They fly with other units and support them with heavy offense. They'll struggle when taking heavy fire, but when they can spread out, flank, and kite the enemy, they shine as reliable hitters who can take a few shots if needed.

Edited by Roller of blanks

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18 minutes ago, Roller of blanks said:

Norra really elevates X-wings by playing the "beef" role so they can circle around and lay down fire. For example, she has soaked up 2 APTS and 3 concussion bombs, so when the X-wings arrived, the enemy didn't have any charges left to fight me with. Norra died, but she won the game by drawing fire so luke & Thane made it to the endgame. 

Rebels being one of the three factions that have my interest, and enjoying theorycrafting Hyperspace-legal lists as I slowly learn the game, I wondered whether this were close to what you're describing?

Luke Skywalker (62)    
    Instinctive Aim (1)    
    Proton Torpedoes (13)    
    R4 Astromech (2)    
    Servomotor S-Foils (0)    
    
Ship total: 78  Half Points: 39  Threshold: 3    
    
Thane Kyrell (48)    
    Proton Torpedoes (13)    
    R3 Astromech (3)    
    Servomotor S-Foils (0)    
    
Ship total: 64  Half Points: 32  Threshold: 3    
    
Norra Wexley (Y-Wing) (41)    
    Dorsal Turret (2)    
    Proton Torpedoes (13)    
    R4 Astromech (2)    
    
Ship total: 58  Half Points: 29  Threshold: 4    
        
Total: 200    

Might could lose the dorsal turret and upgrade Norra to an R3 mech to help with locking the torps plus a mini bid. Figured with Instinctive Luke didn't need one and the R4 makes him flippier.

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@Spinland I was mainly thinking about ARC norra+jyn erso, and my version strips off the all the upgrades in order to fit lieutenant blout.

Your version looks good to, and it probably files very differently from mine. Yours can afford to joust a bit more since you have a high probability of initiative killing, but you'll have to be careful with those X-wings with all those points on them. Mine is more defensive in nature, and looks to trade up with norra and Blount, so my ideal endgame would be Luke, Thane, vs. 1-2 enemy ships, hopefully a little damaged 

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14 minutes ago, Spinland said:

Cool! I actually started with her on the ARC but then figured I'd try to make a HS legal version. Probably could strip those ProTorps and make room for a fourth ship. Hmm.

Strip the protons and instinctive aim and you have 40 points exactly 

That's enough for a blue squadron escort with no bid, or maybe a Y-wing with a few upgrades 

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37 minutes ago, Roller of blanks said:

Strip the protons and instinctive aim and you have 40 points exactly 

That's enough for a blue squadron escort with no bid, or maybe a Y-wing with a few upgrades 

Or maybe a Sheathipede support ship for a coordinate plus an interesting crew dog. HS limits things quite a bit but there might be some fun to be had there....

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@Spinland

I never take R4 Luke over R3 Luke. 

He doesn't care about stress in most games and flips when he needs to; he always Locks and might as well have two. 

I never take Instinctive Luke. 

He doesn't focus ever. 

I take Hight.Perception Luke to kill shot aces or last word him at I7, and he doesn't have the downside for spending the force to do it. 

R3 Perception Luke Hull Upgrade all the way.

Torps, obviously if you can afford them, but not totally necessary, and you're usually better balancing out the firepower to another part of your list for the points unless you have Regen Luke. 

Edited by Bucknife
Misspelling and idea clarification.

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1 hour ago, Bucknife said:

R3 Perception Luke Hull Upgrade all the way.

Torps, obviously if you can afford them, but totally necessary, and you're usually better balancing out the firepower to another part of your list for the points unless you have Regen Luke. 

Much appreciate the sage insights; thanks! I can read card text all steenkin' day but I don't have the hands-on experiences that tell one which possible synergies actually come to fruition on the table. :)

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I find a lot of success with a mid tier 'kitchen sink' list with the T-65.

The thing isn't innately good at anything, but if your entire list is generating 8 actions from 4 ships you can get some pretty spooky alphs and have a good time, even if you don't win. My general goal is, if I can't make a list that will win consistently, I can at least make a list that puts up a fight, and something like AUXY can really HIT.

Edited by dezzmont

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Disclaimer: Scum player.

There's a lot of interesting Rebel salad, I've considered picking them up as a second faction.

Example:

Ten Numb (48)    
    Marksmanship (1)    
    Fire-Control System (2)    
    Autoblasters (3)    
    Stabilized S-Foils (2)    
    
Ship total: 56  Half Points: 28  Threshold: 4    
    
Heff Tobber (44)    
    Saw Gerrera (9)    
    Jyn Erso (2)    
    Pivot Wing (0)    
    
Ship total: 55  Half Points: 28  Threshold: 4    
    
Thane Kyrell (48)    
    Deadeye Shot (1)    
    R4 Astromech (2)    
    Servomotor S-Foils (0)    
    
Ship total: 51  Half Points: 26  Threshold: 3    
    
Jake Farrell (36)    
    Deadeye Shot (1)    
    Marksmanship (1)    
    
Ship total: 38  Half Points: 19  Threshold: 2    
    
    
Total: 200

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Problem with the T-65 is, that they cannot do much on their own. The best T-65 pilots are Wedge and Luke imho, just because of how easy it is to use their skills. Its limited to Torpedoes, something the T-70 fixes with the Hardpoint slot. It does not have Tech slot, something the T-70 does. It also has a Roll instead of Boost. That last part makes me think, that the ship is more of a Range 1 bully than anything else.

My problem with Rebel T-65s is that they rarely do something on their own. Let's have a look:

  • Edrio Two Tubes - more or less needs the other Two Tubes with Perceptive Copilot to work;
  • Leevan Tenza - ability is super cool, but feels wasted on an X-Wing; I3 is also somewhat... mediocre for such a defensive ability; on an I5 it would be amazing;
  • Jek Porkins - one of my favorite abilities, one of the few that dose not require outside help;
  • Kullbee Sperado - a Heavy A-Wing more or less; fun, but... best if you can Boost > Red Focus, otherwise even with Predator you get only one mod;
  • Garven Dreis - great team player, but also in my opinion the best example of what is wrong with Rebels; useless on his own;
  • Biggs Darklighter - great to spread damage and protect high value target; useless on his own;
  • Thane Kyrell - love and hate relationship with this guy; amazing in an ace list, where he can shoot last; otherwise... just an I5 with nothing special to it;
  • Luke Skywalker - super tanky, especially with a Jyn Erso in the squad to give him Evades; Force is just good and his pilot ability is always relevant;
  • Wedge Antilles - amazing for a joust; terrible as an I6 ace; not mobile enough to avoid arcs, no possibility to double mod his attacks, other than outside help;

Rebels suffer because they rely heavily on cross ship combos. Garven Dreis can pass a Focus Token which is amazing, but for one, he has to spend it first, for two he needs a ship nearby. Biggs Darkligher forces you to fly in a swarm-like manner, which makes all your arcs point in the same direction more or less. Edrio is glued to his brother's butt, or the other way round. Rebels are amazing in those combinations, but once one ship falls the entire squad falls apart. Something the other factions don't suffer as much. The only reliable double mods in the faction are the Force Twins, Ezra and Kanan, Braylen and Ten with the Foils. RZ-1s are just weak on their own. While I love Arvel and Jake, they are just not the Aces I would expect t fly in the one ship reserved for the best of the best.

I really love the Rebel Archetype of "I help you, you help me" but I think its failure lies in the Selfless talent being too weak. Looking at the Faction Talents, it is one of the hardest to trigger.

  • Ruthless 1 point (Galactic Empire) - as long as you have a target within 0-1 of the Defender, you can swap any result to a Hit; with the Tie Fghter being so cheap, it is super easy to use;
  • Fearless 3 points (Scum and Villainy) - front arc at Range 1 within enemies front arc, you can swap one result to a Hit; just joust them and you have it;
  • Heroic 1 points (Resistance) - just roll dice enough and you will trigger it; its cheap but throws the dice factor out of the game on your side; mostly at least;
  • Fanatical 2 points (First Order) - people will shoot at you, you will lose shields; then you can shoot them back harder; amazing talent that when paired with Advanced Optics turns the Tie/FO into an absolute bully (over 90% chance of double hits);
  • Proud Tradition 2 points (First Order) - its a straight out upgrade; while the enemy may flip the card, they need to still have a Focus Token or suffer a Crit;
  • Dedicated 1 point (Galactic Republic) - its a fun talent and quite easy to trigger, tanks to the wide side arcs it affects; also encourages enemies to spread their fire, by offering a weakened target instead of who they shot initially;
  • Treacherous 2 points (Separatist Alliance) - you can choose both friendly ships as well as enemy ones; meaning as with Dedicated you can offer a weakened target to shoot at or prepare an enemy for return fire;
  • Selfless 1 point (Rebel Alliance) - you have to be within 0-1 of the defender, within the enemy firing arc and they have to roll a Crit for it to trigger; too many requirements to use it reliably;

If Selfless allowed you to take over a Hit or a Crit as long as you are in the firing arc, it would be amazing, even for 2 points. It would make Rebel Beef be this annoying to get points from joust monster. As it is right now, the faction has some serious problems with identity. Most of what it can do, others just do better.

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I got an insane amount of success (probably because of the conjuncture of multiple factors, but...) with this list. A good balance of offense, defensive capabilities, and endgame possibilities, and there's and old-fashioned T-65 in it:

Heff Tobber (44)    
    Intimidation (3)    
    Lando Calrissian (2)    
    Leia Organa (7)    
    Tactical Scrambler (2)    
    Pivot Wing (0)    
Ship total: 58  Half Points: 29  Threshold: 4    
    
Lieutenant Blount (30)    
Ship total: 30  Half Points: 15  Threshold: 2    
    
Braylen Stramm (52)    
    Crack Shot (2)    
Ship total: 54  Half Points: 27  Threshold: 4    
    
Wedge Antilles (55)    
    Crack Shot (2)    
    Servomotor S-Foils (0)    
Ship total: 57  Half Points: 29  Threshold: 3    
View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0: https://raithos.github.io/?f=Rebel Alliance&d=v8ZsZ200Z33X122WW44W46W110W140Y55XWWY73X116WWWWWWY5X116WWWW142&sn=Unnamed Squadron&obs=


I haven't flown it in a tournament yet. Once things will be settled down (covid), I intend to bring something like this to a real tournament to measure the true performance. But there's sont many lists to test out, and so little time for all this ! :D :D 
Total: 199    
    

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In lore the nose cone is supposed to be a sensor suite iirc. How would people feel about adding a sensor slot to the T-65?

Nothing on there would be to game breaking that I can immediately thinking of? Advanced sensors on Luke perhaps?

Wedge and Thane with fire-control systems would be more consistent.

Collision detector would work well with Backwards Tailslide. 

Passive sensors would help out the generics.

Also maybe add a "Reistance T-70" tech to add a sensor slot. So you either have tech or sensors.

 

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35 minutes ago, Tyhar7 said:

In lore the nose cone is supposed to be a sensor suite iirc. How would people feel about adding a sensor slot to the T-65?

I don't think it's sensors are good enough to warrant a slot. I think those sensors are just "normal" sensors, like the ones on all star wars ships for target locking, radar, etc.

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The only rebel ships without a sensor that I could see getting then is the A wing (which had amazing sensors and jammers and in some ways was an Ewar/scout ship) and a Longprobe config of the Y wing.

Edited by dezzmont

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12 hours ago, Roller of blanks said:

I don't think it's sensors are good enough to warrant a slot. I think those sensors are just "normal" sensors, like the ones on all star wars ships for target locking, radar, etc.

From the wiki.

"also contained hyper-receptive sensors and long-range communications gear that allowed the X-wings to operate independently from a home base at extreme distances."

Maybe that's not enough, still the question isn't if lore can quite justify it. Would it add something to T-65?

(edit) And arguably something like the TIE Advanced V1 never mentions any type of advanced sensors, that I have seen, but still has them. 

Additionally the nose cone also houses this. 

" A Bertriak "Screamer" sensor jammer provided additional defense by scrambling the sensors of enemy starfighters and homing warheads. "

Maybe they can add an x-wing only mod something like this.

"If an enemy acquires a target lock on you they gain a jam token. You cannot use this jam to break the lock on you. While defending, if the attacker rerolls dice by spending a target lock, you may change one hit or crit result to a focus result."

Essentially if your opponent wants to double mod you they need to do it over two rounds. It has a concordia face off Vibe but only for locks.

Edited by Tyhar7

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8 hours ago, Tyhar7 said:

In lore the nose cone is supposed to be a sensor suite iirc. How would people feel about adding a sensor slot to the T-65?

I see why you say that but a mod is a better option for that. Save the sensor slot for our friend the RZ-1...

 

6 hours ago, Tyhar7 said:

If an enemy acquires a target lock on you they gain a jam token.

Essentially nobody can lock you? unless I'm missing something that would mean each time you get locked, the opponent looses the lock (or a green token). Too good.

Edited by Gupa-nupa

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4 hours ago, Gupa-nupa said:

Essentially nobody can lock you? unless I'm missing something that would mean each time you get locked, the opponent looses the lock (or a green token). Too good.

No not my intentions sorry, wrote before going to bed wasn't think clearly...

"If an enemy acquires a target lock on you they gain a jam token. You cannot use this jam to break the lock on you. While defending, if the attacker rerolls dice by spending a target lock, you may change one hit or crit result to a focus result."

The intention being you cancel any additional green mods when being locked. You reduce the damage on spent target locks to green token mods you've hopefully removed with the jam.

Should reduce damage on ordinance or double modded attacks. Anti alpha strike.

 

Edited by Tyhar7

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Honestly every single ship in SW Cannon and Legends has some form of a sensor built in. A-Wing could Jam at close range, but we do not have a Jam on the action bar. I would really like to see a Rebel Talent for the A-Wing that lets them hand out Jam after performing a maneuver to an enemy in their front arc. It would make the generics so much more fun. And enhance the "anti high agility ships" theme of the chassis. Soontir Fel without an Evade/Focus would be much more susceptible for those 2 Dice attacks.

13 hours ago, Silver_leader said:

Heff Tobber (44)    
    Intimidation (3)    
    Lando Calrissian (2)    
    Leia Organa (7)    
    Tactical Scrambler (2)    
    Pivot Wing (0)    
Ship total: 58  Half Points: 29  Threshold: 4    
    
Lieutenant Blount (30)    
Ship total: 30  Half Points: 15  Threshold: 2    
    
Braylen Stramm (52)    
    Crack Shot (2)    
Ship total: 54  Half Points: 27  Threshold: 4    
    
Wedge Antilles (55)    
    Crack Shot (2)    
    Servomotor S-Foils (0)    
Ship total: 57  Half Points: 29  Threshold: 3       

I would swap Braylen for Ten with B-Foils and slap Blount with Crack Shot too. You get more or less the same list, but Ten can spend the Stress as Focus opening up his dial for the next round completely.

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4 hours ago, Schanez said:

Honestly every single ship in SW Cannon and Legends has some form of a sensor built in. A-Wing could Jam at close range, but we do not have a Jam on the action bar. I would really like to see a Rebel Talent for the A-Wing that lets them hand out Jam after performing a maneuver to an enemy in their front arc. It would make the generics so much more fun. And enhance the "anti high agility ships" theme of the chassis. Soontir Fel without an Evade/Focus would be much more susceptible for those 2 Dice attacks.

So perhaps, as a theme, rebels could have more inherent ways to jam opponents, countering some of heavy token stackers and forcing Jedi to spend the force.

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