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What beats a Nantex swarm? (tournament analysis)

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2 hours ago, Archangelspiv said:

How much, disregarding points changes, will the new releases affect this list? Will things that will enable double tapping B Wings make a difference? Concussion bombs etc?

I think tri fighters could be really good.  Network calculations on 3 agility with an evade makes them tough.  They should also do well against sloan swarms as the stressed fighter has access to network calculations.

I think Concord dawn will be the first event where the majority of the field will have seriously planned and adjusted their lists to deal with spamtex.  I also think spamtex lists will evolve because players will need to plan for the mirror match.  I could see a race to to get a large bid.  I doubt they will go below too far below 192 as the crackshot can be so useful.  

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6 hours ago, Archangelspiv said:

How much, disregarding points changes, will the new releases affect this list? Will things that will enable double tapping B Wings make a difference? Concussion bombs etc?

I am just curious what people’s opinions are. I am primarily FO, Empire and Scum with Republic trying to squeeze in there too. Just wondering how things like the LAAT with ETA’s would go or high initiative Tri Fighters. Actually looking at it it would be easier to say I don’t fly Rebels and Resistance.... I wonder how Boba would go? Would have a million stress from Maul I’m sure....

I feel like the LAAT/i will open up a new breed of swarms. Two of the gunships with a flock of Torrents. Rerolls and Focuses all around.

Take the Gunship that can keep ships till the end of Engagement Phase, even if they die. Equip Torrents with Proton Rockets. Go joust. You will be able to probably squeeze a LAAT/i and five or six Torrents with some form of a missile.

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7 hours ago, Archangelspiv said:

How much, disregarding points changes, will the new releases affect this list? Will things that will enable double tapping B Wings make a difference? Concussion bombs etc?

I am just curious what people’s opinions are. I am primarily FO, Empire and Scum with Republic trying to squeeze in there too. Just wondering how things like the LAAT with ETA’s would go or high initiative Tri Fighters. Actually looking at it it would be easier to say I don’t fly Rebels and Resistance.... I wonder how Boba would go? Would have a million stress from Maul I’m sure....

Most of the new releases are easy meat for the Nantex and will be suppressed by them, I think.

We’ve limited evidence that swarms are effective so the force multipliers of LAAT and Xi may not be important, and Nantex have proven themselves very effective against most aces.

The system phase preposition of the Actis will be good against them, and the circle strafing and 180 degree arc of the HMP may give some counterplay.  I’m not sure about anything else that’s coming down the pipe... but then as nothing is consistently beating Nantex now we don’t know what traits to look out for in new ships!

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7 hours ago, reqent said:

I think tri fighters could be really good.

Tri-Fighters might actually be an enabler for the Swarm, as well, since they are the same faction. A Tri with Thread Tracers from the same pack giving 5 Nantex lock on targets might supe the list up even more. And finding a cheap relay carrier for Kalani from the HMP pack might benefit them, as well. Jango + 3 Nantexes sounds strong. 6 Nantex is still probably the better call, but these releases only give them more options.

Herald of Hope gives another i5 RZ-2, giving 5A a renewed fighting chance. 5A is the only list I know that can at least somewhat compete with the 100% time on target of the Nantex. The LAAT/i and the TIE/rb I don't think will do much. The Actis and V-wing however might give Republic a chance. 

Edited by 5050Saint

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V-Wing is basically just a Torrent with some new pilots.

It moves a bit better, but the statline is essentially the same.  The config we've seen isn't game-changing, it just makes taking a lock a bit more consistent, but doesn't look like it'll significantly impact how it interacts with Nantex.  Maybe the other config does something.

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1 hour ago, 5050Saint said:

Tri-Fighters might actually be an enabler for the Swarm, as well, since they are the same faction. A Tri with Thread Tracers from the same pack giving 5 Nantex lock on targets might supe the list up even more. And finding a cheap relay carrier for Kalani from the HMP pack might benefit them, as well. Jango + 3 Nantexes sounds strong. 6 Nantex is still probably the better call, but these releases only give them more options.

Herald of Hope gives another i5 RZ-2, giving 5A a renewed fighting chance. 5A is the only list I know that can at least somewhat compete with the 100% time on target of the Nantex. The LAAT/i and the TIE/rb I don't think will do much. The Actis and V-wing however might give Republic a chance. 

I agree that if tri fighters are the solution they might be worse than the original problem.  I feel that a list needs to have a plan for spamtex and for sloan right and that is really tough to do.

Spamtex is really good I would consider myself to be an intermediate player and I could dominate my local scene with them (if we could play). 

I've been practicing with them and the only weakness I've found is that when I get greedy and do 2 or 3 bank in between obstacles, I maybe forced to use pinpoint tractor array when I wasnt planning on it.  

Its weird because I think the upcoming waves are showing signs of power creep and I believe they will have a profound impact on the game but I'm not sure if its enough to deal with spamtex in it's current iteration. 

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This was my go to casual CIS list I made just before COVID made all gamers sad. I originally had Dooku on it for 4 force, can use Mauls ability with decent mods. I swapped out Dooku for prot Torps for hopefully long range Nantex killing. I *should* be able to kill 2 by the second round of engagement. I went in at 196 points to get the bid, but if people start stripping off predators for mirror match up bids I will have to have a second look at what to do. I want DBS to move after the PAA’s so he can choose someone to cop a APT in the face. 
 

New Squadron

(65) Darth Maul [Sith Infiltrator]
(3) General Grievous
(13) Proton Torpedoes
Points: 81

(30) DBS-404 [Hyena-class Droid Bomber]
(5) Adv. Proton Torpedoes
Points: 35

(20) Trade Federation Drone [Vulture-class Droid Fighter]
Points: 20

(20) Trade Federation Drone [Vulture-class Droid Fighter]
Points: 20

(20) Trade Federation Drone [Vulture-class Droid Fighter]
Points: 20

(20) Trade Federation Drone [Vulture-class Droid Fighter]
Points: 20

Total points: 196

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In my opinion the best approach to deal with Nantex is by not giving them perfect-board-knowledge during their movement.

So initiative 5 + 6 all the way to go.

You rather fight against multiple turret-attacks then against the Yamato-Cannon bullseye-shot.

 

Making the nantex-players fly first will at least push them out of their comfort-zone.

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We just had a "large" live event in Italy, 54 players and 6 Nantex. 2 made the top 16 cut

Nantex won.

Overall nantex non mirror winrate was 65%

https://listfortress.com/tournaments/1877

What beated Nantex?

  • Rey + Zizi Tlo + Finn + Cova Nell (twice, but lost against nantex in the cut)
  • Darth Vader + "Echo" + Grand Inquisitor (once, but lost against Nantex twice. It was the runner up)
  • Nien Nunb + Cova Nell + Finn + Zizi Tlo
  • Zizi Tlo + Tallissan Lintra + Nien Nunb + Jarek Yeager
  • Major Vonreg + Kylo Ren + "Blackout"
  • Rear Admiral Chiraneau + Grand Inquisitor + Fifth Brother
  • Boba Fett + Koshka Frost
  • Dash + Wedge + Jake

 

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Norra Wexly is the answer.

If you get range one you're nigh-invincible, and I can almost guarantee that nantex will take the joust ("it's the best jousting list in the game, of course I can win this!") From there, you want to kill like 1 and a half nantex, and hopefully you can keep that momentum going.

(Also, bring jyn erso on norra if you're running luke. Luke with an evade is almost as nantex-proof as norra)

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14 hours ago, Sunitsa said:

What beated Nantex?

  • Rey + Zizi Tlo + Finn + Cova Nell (twice, but lost against nantex in the cut)
  • Darth Vader + "Echo" + Grand Inquisitor (once, but lost against Nantex twice. It was the runner up)
  • Nien Nunb + Cova Nell + Finn + Zizi Tlo
  • Zizi Tlo + Tallissan Lintra + Nien Nunb + Jarek Yeager
  • Major Vonreg + Kylo Ren + "Blackout"
  • Rear Admiral Chiraneau + Grand Inquisitor + Fifth Brother
  • Boba Fett + Koshka Frost
  • Dash + Wedge + Jake

That's 19 i5-i6's and 7 i4 and lower.

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Yeah...most of this lists are build around multiple ini5+ aces.

 

So here's the pilots you might need to beat Nantex:

Rebels: Wedge, Luke, Thane, Han, Lando, Dash, Hera, Norra, Gina, Corran, Jan, Airen

Imps: Vader, Duchess, Rexler, GrandInq, RAC, Soontir, Redline, Whisper, Mauler, Scourge, Tomax

Scum: Boba, Dengar, Fenn, Terroch, Guri, Nym, Kavil, Han, (Ketsu), Talonbane

FO: Kylo, Blackout, Vonreg, Holo, (Midnight), Malarus (think his ability is great against Nantex!!), Quickdraw, LeHuese

Resistance: Poe, Nien, Ello, Han, Rey, Zizi, Lulo, Talli, Jarek

Republic: Ani, Obi, Plo, (Ric), Oddball

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2 hours ago, KettchGER said:

Yeah...most of this lists are build around multiple ini5+ aces.

 

So here's the pilots you might need to beat Nantex:

Rebels: Wedge, Luke, Thane, Han, Lando, Dash, Hera, Norra, Gina, Corran, Jan, Airen

Imps: Vader, Duchess, Rexler, GrandInq, RAC, Soontir, Redline, Whisper, Mauler, Scourge, Tomax

Scum: Boba, Dengar, Fenn, Terroch, Guri, Nym, Kavil, Han, (Ketsu), Talonbane

FO: Kylo, Blackout, Vonreg, Holo, (Midnight), Malarus (think his ability is great against Nantex!!), Quickdraw, LeHuese

Resistance: Poe, Nien, Ello, Han, Rey, Zizi, Lulo, Talli, Jarek

Republic: Ani, Obi, Plo, (Ric), Oddball

You also need to be able to keep nantex for getting some of your points because you can forget to get 200 from nantex to start with so your win condition is to get +1 points than them.

This means you can probably forget any non black one xwing, talonblade, tie sf or dengar unless those are the part of your list you already know the nantex are taking and you willingly taking the trade

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8 hours ago, Sciencius said:

So knowing the points cost of the new ships do we see any list to dethrone the spamtex ?

Nope.  LAAT, XI, and HMP might be good in general, but they weren't aggressively priced, and they're probably all the kinds of things that'll get picked apart by a squad of 6 aces with stress-free reposition and turrets.

HMP seem closest, with their wide arcs for high time on target, but at lower init (so I-killed) and lower ship count, I'd guess the raw math doesn't really work out in favor of the frisbees.

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3 hours ago, theBitterFig said:

Nope.  LAAT, XI, and HMP might be good in general, but they weren't aggressively priced, and they're probably all the kinds of things that'll get picked apart by a squad of 6 aces with stress-free reposition and turrets.

HMP seem closest, with their wide arcs for high time on target, but at lower init (so I-killed) and lower ship count, I'd guess the raw math doesn't really work out in favor of the frisbees.

Warthog can at least alleviate the Init kill problem, but I'm not sure what happens next :D

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3 hours ago, theBitterFig said:

frisbees.

That is a good ship nickname!

I agree force multipliers like the xi and laat aren't great against a list that can throw that many dice.  

The hmp is interesting because of its maneuverability.  Because the pilots have different load outs it gonna take awhile to optimize it.  

Maybe the herald's of hope pack puts resistance in a good spot (lots of i5's).  Personally I suspect a point correction in november is going to be key.  If spamtex is hive guard instead of aces it really opens up the lists that can handle it.

 

 

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28 minutes ago, reqent said:

That is a good ship nickname!

I stole it from somewhere, can't recall where.

28 minutes ago, reqent said:

Personally I suspect a point correction in november is going to be key.  If spamtex is hive guard instead of aces it really opens up the lists that can handle it.

I've sort of started to think there might not be a points adjustment.  There wasn't one with this wave.  Who knows.

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34 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

I've sort of started to think there might not be a points adjustment.  There wasn't one with this wave

but... why would there have been?

the november date is the normally scheduled update, like the july (pushed to august) date was. there's not normally points changes to random other stuff when new waves drop, that expectation was something people just made up

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8 minutes ago, svelok said:

but... why would there have been?

the november date is the normally scheduled update, like the july (pushed to august) date was. there's not normally points changes to random other stuff when new waves drop, that expectation was something people just made up

For better or worse, this. I think X-wing could do with more frequent 'patching' myself but the only change woulda been an emergency nerf. That is still fairly possible (The Pandemic makes it a bit less predictable though, maybe FFG just assumes that a super degenerate list doesn't matter when no one is playing in person because sales are purely speculative for next points update anyway based on the current timeline), but FFG set pretty clear expectations on when to expect the next update, down to noting there was a date change.

Unless we get an emergency nerf, don't expect a surprise points change. They woulda mentioned that they were going to do it 'wavely' (which is, frankly, a good idea) when they announced they were moving up the pre-scheduled change.

Edited by dezzmont

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28 minutes ago, svelok said:

but... why would there have been?

the november date is the normally scheduled update, like the july (pushed to august) date was. there's not normally points changes to random other stuff when new waves drop, that expectation was something people just made up

There's a scheduled November Update?  I figured January/July (delayed, but still).  I figure, if they were going to do a change before next year, they'd throw it in with the wave.

If I'm wrong, I'm wrong.  *shrug*

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