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I could see a 34 with a 0 point config for turning, and a points costed config for aimbot. Seems like a fair midpoint between 'this is clearly a better Y' and 'This is clearly not as good as an X.'

Edited by dezzmont

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4 hours ago, dezzmont said:

I could see a 34 with a 0 point config for turning, and a points costed config for aimbot. Seems like a fair midpoint between 'this is clearly a better Y' and 'This is clearly not as good as an X.'

This is what I've come to expect.

I'm a broken record about my thought that the Heavy will get breakpointed, simply because 6 medium bases is a lot of board real estate, particularly with turrets, and 48 health with Reinforce is substantial, even if it is crit-prone.  I think the rollbot is potent enough (better Expert Handling with some fraction of an R4 Astromech built in) to justify the cost.

But Aimbot does seem to be more powerful.

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On 9/26/2020 at 3:23 AM, theBitterFig said:

This is what I've come to expect.

I'm a broken record about my thought that the Heavy will get breakpointed, simply because 6 medium bases is a lot of board real estate, particularly with turrets, and 48 health with Reinforce is substantial, even if it is crit-prone.  I think the rollbot is potent enough (better Expert Handling with some fraction of an R4 Astromech built in) to justify the cost.

But Aimbot does seem to be more powerful.

I also see the Brute being 34pt to only allow 5 like with the HMP, howecer I dont think 5 Brute will be as strong as 5 HMPs as the HMPs have room for probe droids which interacts favorably with their ship-ability.

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HMP November wishlist after two (2) games

  • Repulsorlift Stabilizers -3, to 0 points
  • Geonosian Prototype (2 pip) -2, to 33 points, all other pilots gain double cannons
  • Baktoid Drone and DGS-047 stay the same price
  • Separatist Predator -1, to 35 points (some day all droid i3 generics will stop costing 2 points over the i1 generics, and maybe then actually be useful)
  • Onderon Oppressor (2 pip) -2, to 38 points
  • DGS-286 -4, to 38 points
  • Kalani is probably too expensive, but so are all the Tac Relays other than DRK-1 which is super the best "tac relay", but also I don't know how much I actually care

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FLGS finally got their stock, but had no opponent for most for the evening.  Managed at last to get someone to get in a half game.  I tried 2x Onderon Oppressors, one with Kalani, one with DRKs and Concussion Bombs - just for giggles - versus naked Braylenn and Ten.  So, you know, not a solid introduction, ha ha.  But still something worth a first impression?  And first impression, that Sideslip is rough.  Especially amongst the rocks.  It is going to require a lot of practice to get it by second nature on my head - plus the whole planning two and three turns ahead.  Concussion Bomb first impression: woof!  I managed to get one damage onto the enemy, but it honestly affected my flying more than my opponent's - and that's a little on me for when I used it, but my Oppressor was almost dead, so I kinda felt like I had to, you know?  I don't think it's suited to the HMP, but might shine on a Bombardment Drone.  First impression Kalani: never procced.  He needs a swarm, of to face a swarm.  

I *think* the HMP will be...good?  I *think* it wants to nibble around the edges of the battlefield, with something bigger and badder drawer all the attention.  I think it wants to be kept as light as possible; for as beefy as it is, it will just MELT (two shots from Braylenn, boom).  All in all, while not a wholly satisfying evening, it was educational.

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9 hours ago, Kleeg005 said:

And first impression, that Sideslip is rough.  Especially amongst the rocks.

I've played/watched a couple of games with HMPs and they do not like being in a cluttered field of obstacles. Keep them on the outskirts about range 1 from the edge (to allow the sideslip).

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5 minutes ago, 5050Saint said:

I've played/watched a couple of games with HMPs and they do not like being in a cluttered field of obstacles. Keep them on the outskirts about range 1 from the edge (to allow the sideslip).

Yep.  But given the constraints of the game I was playing, there really wasn't much choice - not a full list, very limited time, etc - i felt compelled to more or less joust.  I knew it was a bad idea, especially against those bloody B-Wings.  I had been hoping that the Concussion Bombs would help level the playing field a little better, but the B-Wings were oddly maneuverable relative to the required bomb-drops.  C'est la vie.  As I say, it was educational in spite of the constraints.

The difficulty I see with kiting, though, is that plinky little 2-die gun.  This strategy practically forces you to run missiles in order to make those skirting, flanking attacks meaningful; which given missile costing badly goes against keeping these guys as light as possible.  Perhaps this makes the HMP more of the bait ship then?  Perhaps a couple of these running with a couple Hyenas toting torpedoes?  Or maybe a couple Belbullabs for slightly heavier hitting?  The HMP sits at such a weird price point compared to the rest of the faction, and has so much overlap with the cheaper Hyena in terms of role.  I'm just struggling with it.  I need more table time, damnit.

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Could ESC be a good pick on them? 

This would be good but its 2 points over:

 

Onderon Oppressor (40)    
    Energy-Shell Charges (5)    
    Repulsorlift Stabilizers (3)    
    
Ship total: 48  Half Points: 24  Threshold: 4    
    
Onderon Oppressor (40)    
    Energy-Shell Charges (5)    
    Repulsorlift Stabilizers (3)    
    
Ship total: 48  Half Points: 24  Threshold: 4    
    
General Grievous (44)    
    Soulless One (6)    
    
Ship total: 50  Half Points: 25  Threshold: 4    
    
Techno Union Bomber (25)    
    Concussion Bombs (3)    
    
Ship total: 28  Half Points: 14  Threshold: 3    
    
Techno Union Bomber (25)    
    Concussion Bombs (3)    
    
Ship total: 28  Half Points: 14  Threshold: 3    
    
    
Total: 202    
    
View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0:  

https://raithos.github.io/?f=Separatist Alliance&d=v8ZsZ200Z411X209WWWWWW323Y411X209WWWWWW323Y305XWWW229Y324XWW355WWY324XWW355WW&sn=Unnamed Squadron&obs=

Edited by Gupa-nupa

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5 minutes ago, Gupa-nupa said:

Could ESC be a good pick on them? 

I think ESCs are the best secondary weapon for HMPs. In combination with DRK Probes and Network Aim, the flexibility for target selection, the health to be able to hold onto the calc to use ESC, and the 5 pt cost gaining that barrage rocket like 3 dice with no range bonus....yeah I think it's really good on them. Problem is ESC is extended only 😕 

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12 minutes ago, Gupa-nupa said:

Could ESC be a good pick on them? 

Onderon Oppressor (40)    
    Energy-Shell Charges (5)    
    Repulsorlift Stabilizers (3)    
    
Ship total: 48  Half Points: 24  Threshold: 4      

 

4 minutes ago, RStan said:

I think ESCs are the best secondary weapon for HMPs. In combination with DRK Probes and Network Aim, the flexibility for target selection, the health to be able to hold onto the calc to use ESC, and the 5 pt cost gaining that barrage rocket like 3 dice with no range bonus....yeah I think it's really good on them. Problem is ESC is extended only 😕 

I mean, I've toyed with something similar as a starting point:

Baktoid Drone (34)    
    Discord Missiles (4)    
    Energy-Shell Charges (5)    
    Repulsorlift Stabilizers (3)    
Ship total: 46

But for practically the same cost, you can get two Vultures, each equipped with your choice of Discord or ESC.  It all seems much of a muchness.  Until you start equipping DRKs and upgrading pilots, and then it seems like the HMP might be a bit overcosted next to an equivalent bag o' Vultures.  Perhaps I should simply embrace the new, and not worry about effectiveness, heh.

This is actually where my ESC headsim started:

Separatist Predator (36)    
    Discord Missiles (4)    
    Energy-Shell Charges (5)    
    Munitions Failsafe (1)    
    Repulsorlift Stabilizers (3)    
Ship total: 49  Half Points: 25  Threshold: 4    
    
Separatist Predator (36)    
    Discord Missiles (4)    
    Energy-Shell Charges (5)    
    Munitions Failsafe (1)    
    Repulsorlift Stabilizers (3)    
Ship total: 49  Half Points: 25  Threshold: 4    
    
Sun Fac (45)    
    Crack Shot (2)    
    Predator (2)    
 Ship total: 49  Half Points: 25  Threshold: 2    
    
Separatist Bomber (28)    
    Plasma Torpedoes (8)    
    Energy-Shell Charges (5)    
    DRK-1 Probe Droids (5)    
    Munitions Failsafe (1)    
    Landing Struts (1)    
 Ship total: 48  Half Points: 24  Threshold: 3    
    
Total: 195    
    
View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0: https://raithos.github.io/?f=Separatist Alliance&d=v8ZsZ200Z407X224W209WWWW108W323Y407X224W209WWWW108W323Y357X116W127Y327X234W209W221W108W237&sn=..new **** mk4&obs=

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20 minutes ago, RStan said:

I think ESCs are the best secondary weapon for HMPs. In combination with DRK Probes and Network Aim, the flexibility for target selection, the health to be able to hold onto the calc to use ESC, and the 5 pt cost gaining that barrage rocket like 3 dice with no range bonus....yeah I think it's really good on them. Problem is ESC is extended only

Is Crait hyperspace? or is it extended?

4 minutes ago, Kleeg005 said:

Baktoid Drone (34)    
    Discord Missiles (4)    
    Energy-Shell Charges (5)    
    Repulsorlift Stabilizers (3)    
Ship total: 46

But for practically the same cost, you can get two Vultures, each equipped with your choice of Discord or ESC.  It all seems much of a muchness.  Until you start equipping DRKs and upgrading pilots, and then it seems like the HMP might be a bit overcosted next to an equivalent bag o' Vultures.  Perhaps I should simply embrace the new, and not worry about effectiveness, heh.

This is actually where my ESC headsim started:

Separatist Predator (36)    
    Discord Missiles (4)    
    Energy-Shell Charges (5)    
    Munitions Failsafe (1)    
    Repulsorlift Stabilizers (3)    
Ship total: 49  Half Points: 25  Threshold: 4    
    
Separatist Predator (36)    
    Discord Missiles (4)    
    Energy-Shell Charges (5)    
    Munitions Failsafe (1)    
    Repulsorlift Stabilizers (3)    
Ship total: 49  Half Points: 25  Threshold: 4    
    
Sun Fac (45)    
    Crack Shot (2)    
    Predator (2)    
 Ship total: 49  Half Points: 25  Threshold: 2    
    
Separatist Bomber (28)    
    Plasma Torpedoes (8)    
    Energy-Shell Charges (5)    
    DRK-1 Probe Droids (5)    
    Munitions Failsafe (1)    
    Landing Struts (1)    
 Ship total: 48  Half Points: 24  Threshold: 3    
    
Total: 195    

Might it be worth swapping the Discord missiles for concussion bombs, and swapping the fail-safe for fuses? I think it would do a better job of board control as well as potentially dealing more damage. I don't understand the reasoning behind Sun Fac other than the initiative? His ability does nothing without ensnare, so I would swap him out for Grevious + Soulless. Add K2-B4 or Impervium depending on how you fly GG. 

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3 minutes ago, Gupa-nupa said:

Is Crait hyperspace? or is it extended?

Crait is extended, but 1, I've opted out of extended for awhile (PROTECT THE FORT), and 2, Star Wars Squadrons comes out this weekend to enjoy and I have Youtube channel for it to fill with content ;) 

Edited by RStan

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4 hours ago, Gupa-nupa said:

Might it be worth swapping the Discord missiles for concussion bombs, and swapping the fail-safe for fuses? I think it would do a better job of board control as well as potentially dealing more damage. I don't understand the reasoning behind Sun Fac other than the initiative? His ability does nothing without ensnare, so I would swap him out for Grevious + Soulless. Add K2-B4 or Impervium depending on how you fly GG. 

As I said above, I'm not convinced (on the basis of a single attempt, I know, ha ha) that Concussion Bombs are the right fit for the HMP.   I think the Buzz Droids are at least as good as the Concussions for board control?  And Sun Fac is in there because I enjoy some Ace-style play, not because he's any good - and Grievous is, sadly, no ace.  The Hyena is merely there to provide another body and DRK, and to try to keep the bloat down on the HMP's.  Although he is arguably more bloated and less survivable.  Dunno.  It really was a sort knee-jerk reaction list.  An alternative list throws in a couple Skokoans instead of Sun Fac and the Hyena.  CIS has a *lot* of decent pieces.  Fitting together is the entertaining, challenging part.  From a pure efficiency standpoint, it's probably best to run a couple of these guys with as many naked Vultures as you can fit.  But just seems less fun.

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2 hours ago, Dwing said:

Local guy is doing really really well with just 4 gunships. They have everything going for them, if anything they are a bit to cheap. 

I love the idea of running four but it seems like it would melt. I’m glad he’s having success, and echo the curiosity about the list as well!

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On 10/14/2020 at 12:21 AM, urbanyeti said:

I love the idea of running four but it seems like it would melt. I’m glad he’s having success, and echo the curiosity about the list as well!

Can melt what you can't shoot. The guy is a very good player and Echo is dynamit in his hands, so the  sidesweep is right up his ally. I can't remember the full list but it has the named one that gets a TL for shooting, concussion bombs, buzz droids, Kraken, the works. But they can castle, just red 0 and sidesweep back and forth, so they can react to any angle the opponent chooses. You get droid missiles and buzz droids in your face in front, and concussion out the back.... I dread to see what good players can do with the tri fighter, it seems like a pretty insane interceptor for a faction that has a loooot of good and cheap tricks. 

Edited by Dwing

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4 hours ago, Dwing said:

I dread to see what good players can do with the tri fighter, it seems like a pretty insane interceptor for a faction that has a loooot of good and cheap tricks. 

I know!!! It makes me giddy just thinking about it! Especially since were going to get a preview article on them tomorrow....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

... Right???

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5 hours ago, Gupa-nupa said:

I know!!! It makes me giddy just thinking about it! Especially since were going to get a preview article on them tomorrow....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

... Right???

I hope so. I look forward to see their points cost. everything droid seems fairly cheap and they are super interceptors with token sharing, probably a spot for missiles.

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I have purchased 2. I’m not sure it’s enough. I sort of gauged the amount based on uniqueness. Same with Hyenas, I went 3. What would the brain’s trust here suggest for a “good” or “competitive amount of ships.  I have only played 1 game with them at present and did quite poorly. 

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I finally got good, meaningful games last night.  Two games with 2x SyncLaser Geonosian HMP, 2x MMP FCS Baktoid Hyena, 1x DFS-311 versus PHAT Anakin 7b and Wolfe.  Smashed them.  Hard.  All those wide, wide arcs and token sharing and rerolls.  And the Reps move so much faster than the droids, they never really managed to focus on anything.  Granted, the second game went better for the Republic than did the first, so perhaps a third would have seen me lose a ship?  Ouch.  Impressions, then: I've long struggled with just exactly what to do with Hyenas - they've always felt remarkably fragile for their price once they've been kitted-up.  MMP+FCS is where they sing for me.  I'm in love.  The Synched Laser Geonosians seem to be pretty solid - cheap enough, with some flexibility and some punch.  But I definitely feel the need for so much more practice with that sideslip jank.  Wow.  Just, wow.  I suppose it didn't help that I was facing Supernatural Anakin, but thinking three turns ahead in sideslip kinda churned my brain into butter.  I feel I must at some point try out some missile-toting HMPs, maybe with an Infiltrator?  But this combo feels really good.

Edited by Kleeg005

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3 hours ago, svelok said:

you found an anakin+wolfe 2ship player?

extended is truly an enigma

Dude is a regular Dash+ player.  So.  Likes him some 2-ship chonk 'n thonk.

edit: And this ain't extended.  This.  Is.  CASUAAAAAAAALLLLLL!  hahahaha

Edited by Kleeg005

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