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theBitterFig

Concentrate Your Fire - LAAT Preview

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Unlike Armada though, this game doesn't have chosen alternating activations. It's not going to be riekan level, but it will be good. Considering how much trouble it caused in Armada though I'm surprised they even are trying it. In this game it will be like some revenge shot mechanics anyway.

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23 minutes ago, Blail Blerg said:

Has anyone gotten any actual table (digital is fine too) exp with the new ship? Esp LAAT? What have you found? 
Is it extraordinarily not worth it’s cost? 

Gimme a couple days.

I don't really expect any surprises tbh. Like anything, it's extraordinarily not worth it's cost if you let it get focus fired off the table early. It's not gonna be easy to stop that happening if you don't think carefully about where it needs to be in relation to how much priority it's carrying.

There seems to be A LOT of ways to build with it where it really won't be worth it's cost. So feedback on its individual performances may not be massively illustrative.

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1 hour ago, Blail Blerg said:

Has anyone gotten any actual table (digital is fine too) exp with the new ship? Esp LAAT? What have you found? 
Is it extraordinarily not worth it’s cost? 

I've run warthog twice now. First with 2 Torrents and 2 arcs, then with 2 arcs and Clt Plo as a flanker. Both times was against lower I swarms (droid swarm with two bombers and 4 Tie FO, Malarus and Vonreg) so his ability didn't kick in. Both matches were comfortable wins as there is just so much beef to go through for the opponent. Even when focusing on the Laat 10 hull is surprisingly durable. If I had had Ploo crew it would have been really nasty. There is just so many builds that are possible from Laat with 2 aces to the full beef experience using either torrents or arcs, so it will be exiting to see what people come up with. In summary- I think they are a bit pricey, but not prohibitively so.

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I’ve played it once and it was in a funsies game against Poe, Finn and two names Awings. I flew a Anakin with Calibrated Laser Targeting and two Blue sq Torrents.

Fives is a godsend and Warthog is so useful for keeping the torrents around to punch damage. The reroll ability is great particularly because a friendly ship doesn’t have to be in arc or anywhere near the LAAT due to only the position of the target mattering. It many times gave me the rerolls I needed to find paint. I recall a moment where Anakin was the other side of the target, nowhere in range 1 to 3 of the LAAT, but still got the reroll because the target was in the LAAT's turret arc. Not having a limit on range for that ability is insanely good in my opinion.

Turning is okay, it’s turret compensates for that and Ghost company helps rotate and keep action efficiency up. A lack of a blue bank does hamper it...but I made it work as the round I wanted to do a blue bank, I had my turret arc pointed where it needed to be so just went forward, cleared the stress and I was ready for the next round and still could attack. I also forgot that the LAATs ability works on itself when firing missiles. If you can pull that off whatever you are firing at HURTs. Made my cluster missiles effective against two targets since I could spend the target lock on one and use the ship ability for the second target, and thanks to focusing and using fives, that meant both cluster shots were fully modded...ouch is what my opponent said.

it does suck up damage...but it can take that damage, especially if you have damage mitigating abilities.

Edited by Ebak

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Is there any reason not to take warthog at his current point cost? He's 3 points more than the generic and his ability works on himself. That means if he dies he still gets a shot and still sticks around to use his reroll ability. That seems certainly worth 3 points even if you don't have any generics in your squad.

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(72)Warthog - Yoda - Fives

(67)Anikin - CLT

(53) Obi-Wan- CLT

Jedi should be hard to hit with full force plus purple evades, plus rerolls from warthog

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1 hour ago, TBot said:

Is there any reason not to take warthog at his current point cost? He's 3 points more than the generic and his ability works on himself. That means if he dies he still gets a shot and still sticks around to use his reroll ability. That seems certainly worth 3 points even if you don't have any generics in your squad.

If you don't have 3 points 😉

 

I'm looking to run hound with a pair of Jedi. Gonna run him with CLT Ani/Obi, along with Plo crew, Wolfpack and 7th Fleet Gunner the next time I have a chance.

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1 hour ago, TBot said:

Is there any reason not to take warthog at his current point cost? He's 3 points more than the generic and his ability works on himself. That means if he dies he still gets a shot and still sticks around to use his reroll ability. That seems certainly worth 3 points even if you don't have any generics in your squad.

Probably not no, at least compared to a generic, unless your running the LAAT with aces.

This is a very common quality of support oriented ships actually. Lambda, HWK, Escape Craft, Resistance transport... If the ship is oriented towards either a support ability or carrying support crew you usually take the upgrade to a support named character as well. Not always, but usually. It lets you increase the 'density' of support per points as a lot of the price of a support ship is in stats that, while you certainly care about them, aren't why you are taking them, so they can almost be considered a 'tax.'

Edited by dezzmont

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1 hour ago, The Penguin UK said:

If you don't have 3 points 😉

 

Basically this.

But it's an interesting decision making process. Something I'm looking at has Wolffe and a 7FG I2 LAAT. No points for Warthog. Would dropping to a Squad Seven, taking Warthog and an extra upgrade be better, or not, I wonder.

I think it maybe depends on how you intend to fly them.

4 dice front and back from Wolffe is quite persuasive.

Edited by Cuz05

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2 hours ago, TBot said:

Is there any reason not to take warthog at his current point cost? He's 3 points more than the generic and his ability works on himself. That means if he dies he still gets a shot and still sticks around to use his reroll ability. That seems certainly worth 3 points even if you don't have any generics in your squad.

Bid matters, too.

With I5/6 CLT Jedi you really want to move 2nd, so that'll factor in to how many points you want to spend on a LAAT.  Might be worth, might not, but it's worth being mindful of it.

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Interesting discussions! I don't believe I'm ready to add Republic to my list of current factions, but some of the sample lists I'm seeing look like fun.

I did find one of these expansions still available at regular (some scalpers are already reselling at out-of-stock markup rates) price and ordered it. I'll store it unopened against the time I think I might want to experiment with some of the Purple Faction. 😎🍺

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I played two games with the Laat today, both with Warthog.

It was...ok. i have Fives and Cody on him. Cody does very well, great at setting up shots with your 2-die turret as it'll mostly get evaded. Fives triggered a bunch too but I found myself not really using/needing the tokens he can then give you back.

The ship itself was ok. The lack of blues hurts like **** and i found myself not reinforcing, and therefore dying faster, because of it. Why they felt a white reinforce would break the ship I have no idea.

I can see myself taking the generic, but me and my mate sat and chatted about the other two pilots after our games and couldn't really find a real reason to take them over Warthog. 
 

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On 9/28/2020 at 11:13 AM, Blail Blerg said:

Has anyone gotten any actual table (digital is fine too) exp with the new ship? Esp LAAT? What have you found? 
Is it extraordinarily not worth it’s cost? 

Played my first game with it last night, and it left me with some mixed feelings. Great model, so many slots to customize it to different lists. I played Hawk with a couple of N1s. 

The table next to me had a player playing with 4 of the new droid gunships, and the sideslip just looks so fun and I really don't get why the LAAT did not get that. It is almost the first thing we see it do. Not having any blue Banks is reeeeaaally limiting in a way that again does not make the LAAT fly like in the movies, but game wise that's new, so  I guess peoples opinions on this might differ. 

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Played my first real game with the LAAT this evening.

Plo CLT
212th with Ghost Company and 7FG
2x 104th

Was very strong I thought. The flexibility of two Arcs with double modded shots and the ability to boost the dice to 4 at range 2 and 3 was immense.

Plo finally gets to use his ability to remove 7FGs disarm and it rocks. You don't have to decide whether to do it until you see the board state at the start of the engagement phase.

The LAAT is still a great support ship even if you leave it with the disarm token, but if you look like you can exploit Ghost company you hand off the disarm. You still let the Arcs re-roll their dice whether you are disarmed or not.

All in all superb synchronicity and punches like a bastard.

Edited by Waldorf28

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I can imagine they tested it with white/red reinforce, white/blue banks.... The ability to keep the arc relevant whilst also being reinforced, might have been a bit too simple to achieve and left it being a little dull. Just circle, pop gun, poop rerolls.

With the thing also being a magnet for strain, deplete and stress with various upgrades and abilities, I can see the lack of blue banks making things more interesting.

In all, it feels like a heavy restriction to lack both, but having one or the other opens up a great deal in terms of what's available to it. It would likely need to be even more expensive, making it a weird use of points for any list.

Basically, better to be clunky and usable than the opposite.

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28 minutes ago, Cuz05 said:

I can imagine they tested it with white/red reinforce, white/blue banks.... The ability to keep the arc relevant whilst also being reinforced, might have been a bit too simple to achieve and left it being a little dull. Just circle, pop gun, poop rerolls.

With the thing also being a magnet for strain, deplete and stress with various upgrades and abilities, I can see the lack of blue banks making things more interesting.

In all, it feels like a heavy restriction to lack both, but having one or the other opens up a great deal in terms of what's available to it. It would likely need to be even more expensive, making it a weird use of points for any list.

Basically, better to be clunky and usable than the opposite.

It already has an interesting problem with its ability: it basically wants extra points invested in missiles and the turret facing forward back. It also doesn’t buff any other turrets like other LAATs or Ywings. 

i suspect there’s a few good combos but some of the actual ship design is not very good and will become apparent after it stops being new. 

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I don't think anyone's expecting anyone else to fly a list of four LAAT/i ships, but after having flown them a few times now they feel just that little bit too expensive. Even before I had the chance to fly them - shortly after the points were announced - they looked expensive on paper.

Bring Hawk down to 52/53... maybe.
Warthog down to 50/51.
Hound down to 48.
212th Battalion Pilot down to 45 points.

Flame/troll at will. There's my two pence.

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8 hours ago, Blail Blerg said:

It already has an interesting problem with its ability: it basically wants extra points invested in missiles and the turret facing forward back. It also doesn’t buff any other turrets like other LAATs or Ywings. 

i suspect there’s a few good combos but some of the actual ship design is not very good and will become apparent after it stops being new. 

You want it to fly at things with double modded 3 die attacks, whilst  buffing Y-Wingmen for coverage on the turn, or other missile LAATs for full joust me bro?

I agree that not doing that is interesting. Notsomuch with it being a problem.

 

Edited by Cuz05

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14 hours ago, Blail Blerg said:

It already has an interesting problem with its ability: it basically wants extra points invested in missiles and the turret facing forward back. It also doesn’t buff any other turrets like other LAATs or Ywings. 

i suspect there’s a few good combos but some of the actual ship design is not very good and will become apparent after it stops being new. 

It isn't an interesting problem to me at all, the ship ability restrictions appear clearly intentional to not generate a broken ability. That doesn't make it poor ship design. It buffs Y-Wings, just not turret Y-Wings.

The player base wants to turn this into a barrage rocket monster, but that doesn't mean it was designed to do it.

It seems that features like limited blues and red reinforce are there precisely to keep this thing from becoming a monster and to provide consequences.

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I played yesterday against Warthog (with Ghost Company ) and 4 dedicated torrents. 

I won due that my opponent touches the rocks with half of his torrents on the main engagement round. But it was a hard list to pin down. By my limited experience, I can say that:

- Fire convergence is really strong, especially that the charges are regenerating

- You have to pin down Warthog FAST. I had Fenn coming from behind with Dengar gunner on Nom Lumb that did big damage to Warthog. I really concentrated my fire on him, and it took 3-4 turns to get him out. It was a hard fight.

I love the ship, and I think it's been cleverly well designed. But I think that you have to protect this beast so it has more durability to give his mates the max benefits from his buffer.

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16 hours ago, Blail Blerg said:

It already has an interesting problem with its ability: it basically wants extra points invested in missiles and the turret facing forward back.

That's only if you want to use the ability for itself right? Otherwise orbiting with side-to-side no missiles works fine. Sinker's problem was that he often engaged at odd angles to trigger his ability, sometimes forfeiting shots to do so. The LAAT shouldn't have that problem.

11 hours ago, Spitty81 said:

I don't think anyone's expecting anyone else to fly a list of four LAAT/i ships, but after having flown them a few times now they feel just that little bit too expensive. Even before I had the chance to fly them - shortly after the points were announced - they looked expensive on paper.

Bring Hawk down to 52/53... maybe.
Warthog down to 50/51.
Hound down to 48.
212th Battalion Pilot down to 45 points.

I think the thought on the 51 point generic was to prevent a LAAT with 6 Torrents in tow. I think we should wait to assess if 51 is good enough until after the ETA2 and the V-Wing drop to see what synergies form there.

Also, Warthog should be the most expensive of the pilots.

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14 hours ago, 5050Saint said:

I think the thought on the 51 point generic was to prevent a LAAT with 6 Torrents in tow. I think we should wait to assess if 51 is good enough until after the ETA2 and the V-Wing drop to see what synergies form there.

Also, Warthog should be the most expensive of the pilots.

In the day of six Nantex with all the trimmings,  would six naked Torrents with a LAAT/i be so bad?

Re: ETA-2s and V-Wings, one waits in hope, but even with synergies (potential or assumed) I'm still of the opinion that the LAAT/i - across all pilots - is too expensive at the moment. It's an opinion shared by a majority; certainly all that I've spoken to that have played it and don't consider themselves Republic players. In any case I'm expecting a points trimming come the November points update.

Warthog is i2. That's what is keeping him cheaper than Hawk. He should always remain cheaper than Hawk but more expensive than Hound. As suggested, the LAAT/i is too expensive across the board. Again: that's my opinion. I'm not trying to poo-poo anybody else's.

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