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theBitterFig

Concentrate Your Fire - LAAT Preview

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24 minutes ago, S4ul0 said:

but I don't see any reason to take this ship instead of Sinker.

Because Sinker doesn't move well enough to keep buffs on Jedi.  LAAT don't move great either, but their trigger is easier, so their practical mobility is better.  Sinker/Jedi/Jedi isn't going to work.  LAAT/Jedi/Jedi might.  Likewise, ARC formation flying is odd enough that something like [Pocket Ace]/ARC/ARC/LAAT is probably just easier to fly.

17 minutes ago, Cuz05 said:

Can't help myself. All the things. I have no idea how to fly it.

(55) "Hawk" [Laat/i Gunship] (5) Ghost Company (10) Plo Koon (4) Clone Commander Cody (1) Synchronized Console. Points: 75

(50) "Wolffe" [ARC-170 Starfighter] (16) Aayla Secura. Points: 66

(49) "Odd Ball" [ARC-170 Starfighter] (9) Kit Fisto (1) Synchronized Console. Points: 59

Total points: 200

I mean, it'd almost surely be a blast to have these things rocketing forwards.

I keep thinking something like Hawk + 2 Generic ARCs + Ric or CLT Obi...  That ace can handle themselves and flank, but if chased they're a great bait ship since that ARC wing is FAST, like a bloat of angry Hippoptamuses, and will approach with Focus/Reroll.

Edited by theBitterFig

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22 minutes ago, S4ul0 said:

Well, I think the LAAT is absurdly overcosted. I know is because the support ability, but I don't see any reason to take this ship instead of Sinker.

The LAAT rolls two attack dice. One less die to buff the rest of the squad. Maybe is ok if you can fit strong ships, but no, with that price, you can't. And if you want a swarm, Sinker is better.

I'm a bit disappointed. Crew cheap and an expensive chassis. It's the opposite of what I expected.

As a chonky reroll factory with a big gun, then yeah, Sinker, more or less same price. But atm, I'm really liking the LAAT as a more flexible, tactical platform that requires some thought and planning.

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1 minute ago, theBitterFig said:

I mean, it'd almost surely be a blast to have these things rocketing forwards.

I keep thinking something like Hawk + 2 Generic ARCs + Ric or CLT Obi...  That ace can handle themselves and flank, but if chased they're a great bait ship since that ARC wing is FAST, like a bloat of angry Hippoptamuses, and will approach with Focus/Reroll.

Absolutely no doubt that you'd be better off trimming and bringing a 4th ship :D

That sounds like a decent game plan too.

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1 minute ago, theBitterFig said:

Because Sinker doesn't move well enough to keep buffs on Jedi.  Sinker/Jedi/Jedi isn't going to work.  LAAT/Jedi/Jedi might. 

Yes. The last archetype is an option but with the constant nerf to 7B each update you have to take the CLT glasscannon.

I'm going to test that, but I don't have much hope.

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10 minutes ago, S4ul0 said:

Yes. The last archetype is an option but with the constant nerf to 7B each update you have to take the CLT glasscannon.

I'm going to test that, but I don't have much hope.

JSYK, Ani+Obi with CLT on each and a naked I2 LAAT gives you 30 points to spend. A bid is probably useful, you could make one of them Delta-7B, you could find some regen droids, Palps might help, maybe Precog on one/both, and if the Actis ends up being a good replacement Yoda could see use (since you don't purple evade often).

Edited by Npmartian

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Anyhow, Clone Commander Cody looks really good on LAAT, right?  At least LAAT lists where there's some lower-Init stuff mixed in.  Only 2 reds so misses are more likely.

I never really loved CCC on an ARC.  ARC need to be hitting, but LAAT bring their offense mostly through their ship ability.

Likewise 7th Fleet Gunner.  LAAT will probably be a lot more willing to take a disarm to recharge, and then you can hand out an extra dice attack, but with rerolls to leverage it better.

3 minutes ago, Npmartian said:

JSYK, Ani+Obi with CLT on each and a naked I2 LAAT gives you 30 points to spend. A bid is probably useful, you could make one of them Delta-7B, you could find some regen droids, Palps might help, maybe Precog on one/both, and if the Actis ends up being a good replacement Yoda could see use (since you don't purple evade often).

R2s on both, plus a 7th Fleet Gunner, so the peashooter CLTs have upgraded to potato cannons.  Or 1 CLT, 1 7B on the Jedi with 7FG LAAT.

289e237e1d9010e826640b78c30a8afd.jpg

tenor.gif?itemid=14043240

 

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22 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

Anyhow, Clone Commander Cody looks really good on LAAT, right?  At least LAAT lists where there's some lower-Init stuff mixed in.  Only 2 reds so misses are more likely.

Ghost Company + Clone Commander Cody. Shoot at, miss, and give strain to two enemy ships(if you can get two in arc). 60 on the generic, 63 on Warthog.

Same points as Seventh Fleet Gunner, for the pair.

Biggest problem I can see with the LAAT/i is the limited blues... only 1-2 forward. Especially since the reinforce is red.

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3 minutes ago, Cerebrawl said:

Ghost Company + Clone Commander Cody. Shoot at, miss, and give strain to two enemy ships(if you can get two in arc). 60 on the generic, 63 on Warthog.

Same points as Seventh Fleet Gunner, for the pair.

Biggest problem I can see with the LAAT/i is the limited blues... only 1-2 forward. Especially since the reinforce is red.

Another good fit with ghost company is Fives. You attack two times, if any of them misses you get to store a focus (potentially up to two per turn). Those focus can serve you next turn to activate ghost company even if you choose red maneuvers, go through obstacles, bump or want to take another action. During this new attack you may miss one of the shots, which will grant you another focus token, and potentially this continues every turn, being able to shoot twice once and again while crashing everything in your way.

Alll of this works with Cody too, by the way, but requires the low init pilot for Fives to work.

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11 minutes ago, xanatos135 said:

Another good fit with ghost company is Fives. You attack two times, if any of them misses you get to store a focus (potentially up to two per turn). Those focus can serve you next turn to activate ghost company even if you choose red maneuvers, go through obstacles, bump or want to take another action. During this new attack you may miss one of the shots, which will grant you another focus token, and potentially this continues every turn, being able to shoot twice once and again while crashing everything in your way.

Alll of this works with Cody too, by the way, but requires the low init pilot for Fives to work.

Good point, and there's room for all 3. You can have Ghost Company, Clone Commander Cody, and "Fives" onboard the same LAAT/i.

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4 hours ago, Npmartian said:

Well, when we get the Aces and Oddballs pack, it'll probably be good for him in the LAAT too.

Give us oddball on every ship, cowards.

Bah, give us Odd Balls on every ship with a keyword to match.  Then a bonus for flying an all Odd Ball squad. 

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"Warthog" (54)
Wolf Pack (4)

Jedi Knight (37)
Calibrated Laser Targeting (2)

Jedi Knight (37)
Calibrated Laser Targeting (2)

Jedi Knight (37)
Calibrated Laser Targeting (2)

Gold Squadron Trooper (25)
Total: 200

 

 

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5 hours ago, wurms said:

"Warthog" (54)
Wolf Pack (4)

Jedi Knight (37)
Calibrated Laser Targeting (2)

Jedi Knight (37)
Calibrated Laser Targeting (2)

Jedi Knight (37)
Calibrated Laser Targeting (2)

Gold Squadron Trooper (25)
Total: 200

 

 

Wolf Pack or Clone Captain Rex?  Warthog giving a bunch of CLT Jedi who are already trying to accomplish bullseyes an opportunity for a focus action seems handy.

On the other hand, Wolf Pack is just simple.

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16 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

Wolf Pack or Clone Captain Rex?  Warthog giving a bunch of CLT Jedi who are already trying to accomplish bullseyes an opportunity for a focus action seems handy.

On the other hand, Wolf Pack is just simple.

Maybe drop the torrent and take Rex and Wolf pack and one of Plo and a missile or Aayla?

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3 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

I dunno.  I feel like the ship count is also good...

Sure. Filler to go get in the way is what torrents are for. You also need action economy. Do you come out ahead with more of your own actions via Rex/Wolf Pack/Aayla than you can deny with blocking with the torrent? Warthog should make those times when a filler torrent just won't go away even worse. 

Dropping the torrent and going with Plo leaves room for Brilliant Evasion or Heightened Perception or astromechs on the Jedi. You could make one of the Jedi a bit acey with an astro and Force Power. R4-P17 is underrated on Sprites in my opinion (there's an effect the T-65 could use.)

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1 minute ago, Frimmel said:

Sure. Filler to go get in the way is what torrents are for. You also need action economy. Do you come out ahead with more of your own actions via Rex/Wolf Pack/Aayla than you can deny with blocking with the torrent? Warthog should make those times when a filler torrent just won't go away even worse. 

Dropping the torrent and going with Plo leaves room for Brilliant Evasion or Heightened Perception or astromechs on the Jedi. You could make one of the Jedi a bit acey with an astro and Force Power. R4-P17 is underrated on Sprites in my opinion (there's an effect the T-65 could use.)

I know it's only one option, but if taking Heightened Perception, why bother with Warthog?

Mostly, I'm just not a big theoretical fan of overloading LAAT.  They're not cheap ships, and their reinforce is costly to use due to weak blues.

There's probably some nice 3CLT + Rex-LAAT list out there, but I'm not sure it's a Warthog list.  It might be a generic LAAT with named CLT Jedi.  For a Warthog list, keeping ship count high and pilots generic seems best.  I dunno.  I'm just guessing.

//

But mostly Rex vs Wolf Pack is an interesting choice in the original list, and one that has benefits either way.

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24 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

I know it's only one option, but if taking Heightened Perception, why bother with Warthog?

Because sometimes your Jedi gets a fully-modded range one bullseye arc shot and the opportunity to kill something before it shoots. Might save you giving up half-points on something or suffering some undesirable effect when attacked or damaged possibly reducing your zombie's effectiveness. Warthog prevents being initiative killed while shooting first might prevent getting killed. 

34 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

Mostly, I'm just not a big theoretical fan of overloading LAAT.  They're not cheap ships, and their reinforce is costly to use due to weak blues.

Well Plo gives you purple reinforce and takes away the strain tokens you'll be handing out with Wolfpack and/or Rex. Point conceded on not being cheap already and overloading maybe not being the best idea. 

39 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

There's probably some nice 3CLT + Rex-LAAT list out there, but I'm not sure it's a Warthog list.  It might be a generic LAAT with named CLT Jedi.  For a Warthog list, keeping ship count high and pilots generic seems best.  I dunno.  I'm just guessing.

I think the thing with Warthog is the I3. Sinker, Jag, Snips, Broadside, Swoop, Axe, Dinee, as well as SSV (both,) BSP, and the generic Jedi are all I3. The flexibility of being at the same initiative as other parts of your list might be worth the 2-3 points over the I2s even without "max generic" pilots. You were questioning the Heightened Perception which is 3 points cause you don't "need" to shoot first with Warthog. How many generics do you have to save to make the 2-3 points over the I2s worth it?

Hound brings back the problem of the weak blues but maybe that's a better carrier for the load up? Rex and Wolfpack passing out strain, Plo and Hound taking it back. 

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2 hours ago, theBitterFig said:

You want to build a radically different list, that's fine.

Wolf Pack vs Rex is a choice worth considering without considering a massive rebuild of the entire list architecture.

I'm not sure dropping a filler ship for upgrades counts as a massive rebuild of the list architecture. 

I think as to Rex or Wolfpack I think Rex is a better choice with the I3 Jedi on an I3 LAAT. I think Rex is a bit better all around really as it is something you can do and choose and pro-actively try to make happen. Wolfpack is dependent on choices outside of your control. 

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1 hour ago, Waldorf28 said:

This is what my theory-crafting just arrived at too. Finally a proper job for my Worlds Plo... keeping that four dice double modded Arc firing :).

I've actually become unreasonably excited about the squad. Coverage is good, more flexible than I thought, the dice are strongly weighted.

I.... have not played it against anything...... But it moves nicely, can be vaguely accepting of limited bumpage.

Been thinking about the Hyperspace version, with Warthog, Squad Sevens and no Ghost- at 200pt. Gives you that Init kill resistance that will be an awkward problem for the 104ths, but opens the list up to a lot more blocking from I2/3. Mainly, it has a heavier reliance on Plo making damaging runs, something I feel will upset the timing.

Against I1 in numbers, where blocks become inevitable, I2/3 doesn't matter and you have more firepower in the Clones, keeping Plo safer while he supports. 2 turns of the big guns would be nice, if it could be managed.

Against anything, if the LAAT can pull through the merge and damage can be switched between the ARCs, 7FG and rerolls will power a heck of a left hook from CLT Plo, when he tags in.

All this requires not a joust, in my mind. I've been switching and rolling out repeatedly from a corner deployment, LAAT looking along my edge, Arcs parked diagonal and Plo tucked up in there. They can bonk, roll, bank and turn into a wide variety of lanes with some very flexible timing.

Obviously, some things will set up opposite and charge. Some of those things will have made a mistake. The other things will do fine, because I'll probably just opt into it.

Edit: honestly, I jest, I think I can get out, around the 2.5 obstacle, hang Plo safely in the corner and ask if they'd like to go straight or bank. Accepting the choice with a wide spread of Oh Noes. I think.....

Plo's ability is proper dynamite, it might be enough to get things clicking, that extra push on dice of choice. I've had great times in the past with him. Maintaining the threat of his thrust, whilst keeping him in General mode will be the hardest thing to balance. Like, really hard....

Well, turning the LAAT is kinda hard too tbh.

Mainly, I'm just ALL IN on the theme here. It brings great joy.

 

Vs Nantex. ??. Not bothered. I'll try it if it comes up but I'm not chasing it :D

edit3- Against aces. Whatever. You spread out, overlap, catch and smash them one by one. Easy. I don't know why everyone struggles so much with it :P

Edited by Cuz05

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On 9/2/2020 at 10:04 AM, theBitterFig said:

Warthog is basically Fels's Wrath's.

swz70_a1_warthog_ship.png

Seriously people.... 

This ability has never ever been a thing in the history of X-Wing. 

Armada guys know what's up here...

They'll use and abuse it, I assure you. 

_____________

MetaMonster?

(54) "Warthog" [Laat/i Gunship]
(10) Plo Koon
(3) "Fives"
(4) Clone Commander Cody
(3) Hull Upgrade
Points: 74

(31) Shadow Squadron Veteran [BTL-B Y-wing]
(3) R3 Astromech
(3) Hull Upgrade
(1) Dedicated
(5) Adv. Proton Torpedoes
(2) Dorsal Turret
Points: 45

(26) Blue Squadron Protector [V-19 Torrent Starfighter]
(1) Dedicated
Points: 27

(26) Blue Squadron Protector [V-19 Torrent Starfighter]
(1) Dedicated
Points: 27

(26) Blue Squadron Protector [V-19 Torrent Starfighter]
(1) Dedicated
Points: 27

Total points: 200

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1 hour ago, Bucknife said:

Seriously people.... 

This ability has never ever been a thing in the history of X-Wing. 

Armada guys know what's up here...

They'll use and abuse it, I assure you. 

_____________

MetaMonster?

(54) "Warthog" [Laat/i Gunship]
(10) Plo Koon
(3) "Fives"
(4) Clone Commander Cody
(3) Hull Upgrade
Points: 74

(31) Shadow Squadron Veteran [BTL-B Y-wing]
(3) R3 Astromech
(3) Hull Upgrade
(1) Dedicated
(5) Adv. Proton Torpedoes
(2) Dorsal Turret
Points: 45

(26) Blue Squadron Protector [V-19 Torrent Starfighter]
(1) Dedicated
Points: 27

(26) Blue Squadron Protector [V-19 Torrent Starfighter]
(1) Dedicated
Points: 27

(26) Blue Squadron Protector [V-19 Torrent Starfighter]
(1) Dedicated
Points: 27

Total points: 200

It seems good, my only question is whether you want something like above with upgrades or just want the maximum amount of bodies on the table like below.

 

"Warthog" (54)    
    Plo Koon (10)    
    
Ship total: 64  Half Points: 32  Threshold: 5    
    
Blue Squadron Protector (26)    
    Dedicated (1)    
    
Ship total: 27  Half Points: 14  Threshold: 3    
    
Blue Squadron Protector (26)    
    Dedicated (1)    
    
Ship total: 27  Half Points: 14  Threshold: 3    
    
Blue Squadron Protector (26)    
    Dedicated (1)    
    
Ship total: 27  Half Points: 14  Threshold: 3    
    
Blue Squadron Protector (26)    
    Dedicated (1)    
    
Ship total: 27  Half Points: 14  Threshold: 3    
    
Blue Squadron Protector (26)    
    Dedicated (1)    
    
Ship total: 27  Half Points: 14  Threshold: 3    
    
    
Total: 199    
    
View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0: https://raithos.github.io/?f=Galactic Republic&d=v8ZsZ200Z414XWW325WWWWY320X210WWY320X210WWY320X210WWY320X210WWY320X210WW&sn=Unnamed Squadron&obs=

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