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theBitterFig

Concentrate Your Fire - LAAT Preview

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18 minutes ago, Spitty81 said:

In the day of six Nantex with all the trimmings,  would six naked Torrents with a LAAT/i be so bad?

The hope is that a list proving as dominant as Sixtex will adjusted, rather than select other things being released/buffed to compete with it.

That's not to say that LAAT+6 would be too strong, I have no idea about that. But it might be a pain.

21 minutes ago, Spitty81 said:

Warthog is i2. That's what is keeping him cheaper than Hawk. He should always remain cheaper than Hawk but more expensive than Hound. 

I'm sure that's a mistype, but I3 ofc. Init value measures differently on these sort of things. Hawks ability is very situational and very restrictive, his I4 makes him very prone to blocks.  The only real benefit of Hawks init is where he sits in the firing order, making him a good home for certain upgrades, like Ghost Co + Suppressive Gunner.

Warthogs ability will always be relevant, even if just to him. His I3 also tallies perfectly with a mass of Rep ships that see common use, that alone is a massive benefit when it comes to activation order.

They all may prove too expensive, I'm unconvinced as yet, but nevertheless Warthog is certainly superior to Hawk.

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7 minutes ago, Cuz05 said:

The hope is that a list proving as dominant as Sixtex will adjusted, rather than select other things being released/buffed to compete with it.

That's not to say that LAAT+6 would be too strong, I have no idea about that. But it might be a pain.

I'm sure that's a mistype, but I3 ofc. Init value measures differently on these sort of things. Hawks ability is very situational and very restrictive, his I4 makes him very prone to blocks.  The only real benefit of Hawks init is where he sits in the firing order, making him a good home for certain upgrades, like Ghost Co + Suppressive Gunner.

Warthogs ability will always be relevant, even if just to him. His I3 also tallies perfectly with a mass of Rep ships that see common use, that alone is a massive benefit when it comes to activation order.

They all may prove too expensive, I'm unconvinced as yet, but nevertheless Warthog is certainly superior to Hawk.

Yep, typo there. I3.

Hawk also has a Talent slot. That makes him - in my opinion - much more versatile as a pilot. Hawk with Intimidation? That red zero stop maneovere just became more than a blocking tool. Swarm Tactics? Perhaps now you're passing on an i5 that you just inherited from another Swarm Tactics pilot.  Saturation Salvo works well with Barrage Rockets too.

Warthog's ability appears more useful than Hawk's, but that's probably because it's a lot more straightforward in use. It's set and forget. 

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1 hour ago, Spitty81 said:

Warthog's ability appears more useful than Hawk's, but that's probably because it's a lot more straightforward in use. It's set and forget. 

While in normal situations this might be true, it likely is more that Warthog is a 'tech' pilot who is in a meta he 'techs' well against.

When you can be reasonably sure every single ship you have will be I-killed when it engages... like say.... in a meta with 6 very hard to kill pseudo-aces who also joust.... Warthog may as well read "Every ship of yours may attack an extra time once per game."

The value of the pilot would dramatically fall in lists that have I3s or up, or which expect to fight mixed or low initiative ships, while Hawk's ability is completely initiative independent (which I think is an interesting design space) and doesn't require you to be in a specific matchup to give value. But it also is a more 'essoteric' ability, its harder to evaluate, more fuzzy. Which is good, games live and die based on those sorts of abilities being worthwhile to have because it puts more emphasis on skill. Its just that you can only take one LAAT and Warthog is probably never going to have a better meta for his more 'mathy' ability.

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2 hours ago, Spitty81 said:

Yep, typo there. I3.

Hawk also has a Talent slot. That makes him - in my opinion - much more versatile as a pilot. Hawk with Intimidation? That red zero stop maneovere just became more than a blocking tool. Swarm Tactics? Perhaps now you're passing on an i5 that you just inherited from another Swarm Tactics pilot.  Saturation Salvo works well with Barrage Rockets too.

That's a very fair point, but actually  using the talent slot coats extra ofc. It's somewhat debatable whether a single additional slot should cost points. You could drop him a point below Warthog, equipping almost any worthwhile talent will restore the difference.

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I've flown an assortment of LaaT lists over the last week. My findings for each:

Warthog (Ghost company/Cody/Fives), 3xArc-170:- Hits hard on a single target, and really makes Warthog the top target. Most useful against aces that hate the strain from Cody. 

Generic Laat, 2xarc, Obi - CLT, R5 - The end game threat of Obi plus his LaaT reroll powered CLT really adds another dimension to the list. He is a clear end game threat, and so confuses target priority with players opting between the LaaT or the Jedi, leaving the Arcs to take double modded punchy attacks

Warthog (Wolfpack/Seventh Fleet Gunner) 3xi3 Arc 170 - I think this is the best version. The 7th fleet gunner allows the Arcs to toss 4 dice at range 2, or increases the power of the rear gun to do 3-4 dice double modded. While it lacks an end game piece - that doesn't matter if there isn't an 'end game' game state. 

I'm pretty excited for what is going to happen on launch of the ETA-2 and the V-Wing. 

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2 hours ago, Rich P said:

Warthog (Wolfpack/Seventh Fleet Gunner) 3xi3 Arc 170 - I think this is the best version. The 7th fleet gunner allows the Arcs to toss 4 dice at range 2, or increases the power of the rear gun to do 3-4 dice double modded. 

I admit this is terrifying. A LOT of hull to chew, and a lot of firepower.

To make it to the endgame, wouldn't it be better to bet a aetherspite or eventually an actis to replace one of the ARCS ? It would still make 3 big pieces to kill before the endgame threat

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That's the approach I've been taking. I favour Plo because he can keep 7th Fleet Gunner popping every turn when the Arcs have juicy shots.

Plo's Chonky Bros

(45) Plo Koon [Delta-7 Aethersprite]
(4) Calibrated Laser Targeting
Points: 49

(51) 212th Battalion Pilot [Laat/i Gunship]
(5) Ghost Company
(9) Seventh Fleet Gunner
Points: 65

(42) 104th Battalion Pilot [ARC-170 Starfighter]
Points: 42

(42) 104th Battalion Pilot [ARC-170 Starfighter]
Points: 42

Total points: 198

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13 minutes ago, ForceSensitive said:

My heart sinks a little every time I see only one arc in a list 😓

Heh. I personally only own one right now, and I got it to go with the Rebel cardboard in my conversion kit. That being said, yesterday I ordered a second one through my local dealer—er, vendor, as I seem to be letting myself be slowly dragged into adding Republic to my factions of interest. I figure two will be plenty, though. Sure, two. It'll be fine. Really. 

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14 minutes ago, ForceSensitive said:

@Spinland I own... An... unfortunate number of ARCs myself lol. 😅 But I meant LAATs, whoops. I'm also sad when I only see one arc, but I'm SUPER sad to only see one LAAT

Ah, roger roger that. My poor, lonely, solitary LAAT is supposed to arrive today, matter of fact. My first Republic-specific ship. Down the purple rabbit hole I go.

Edited by Spinland

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7 hours ago, Spitty81 said:

Warthog is i2. That's what is keeping him cheaper than Hawk. He should always remain cheaper than Hawk but more expensive than Hound.

Sinker is more expensive than Wolffe, who is more expensive than Oddball in the ARC.  Pilot ability strength matters, often over-and-above Initaitive, and Warthog by far has the strongest ability.

Plus, if Hawk is cheap, that helps enable strange boosting ARC builds and stuff, and that's just cool.  Warthog?  Just enables generic efficiency, which is good, but not as snazzy.

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3 hours ago, Rich P said:

Warthog (Wolfpack/Seventh Fleet Gunner) 3xi3 Arc 170 - I think this is the best version. The 7th fleet gunner allows the Arcs to toss 4 dice at range 2, or increases the power of the rear gun to do 3-4 dice double modded. While it lacks an end game piece - that doesn't matter if there isn't an 'end game' game state. 

I keep also thinking about Dedicated in this list (does it fit?  Is Dedicated or Wolfpack better?).  My gut is that Warthog is the prime first target, and using Dedicated for some rerolls seems beneficial.

However, it seems like a great punchy beef list either way.

Edited by theBitterFig

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31 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

Sinker is more expensive than Wolffe, who is more expensive than Oddball in the ARC.  Pilot ability strength matters, often over-and-above Initaitive, and Warthog by far has the strongest ability.

Plus, if Hawk is cheap, that helps enable strange boosting ARC builds and stuff, and that's just cool.  Warthog?  Just enables generic efficiency, which is good, but not as snazzy.

Funny that you should mention Sinker because he's another that I think is too expensive. Level him with Wolffe and Oddball.

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4 minutes ago, Spitty81 said:

Funny that you should mention Sinker because he's another that I think is too expensive. Level him with Wolffe and Oddball.

I don't hate the thought of 50 point Sinker (Sinker + 6 Torrents would go on the potential-trouble watchlist, but might be OK), but with 50 point Sinker, I'd expect 49 Wolffe, 48 Oddball, 47 Jag.

Edited by theBitterFig

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8 hours ago, Spitty81 said:

In the day of six Nantex with all the trimmings,  would six naked Torrents with a LAAT/i be so bad?

Re: ETA-2s and V-Wings, one waits in hope, but even with synergies (potential or assumed) I'm still of the opinion that the LAAT/i - across all pilots - is too expensive at the moment. It's an opinion shared by a majority; certainly all that I've spoken to that have played it and don't consider themselves Republic players. In any case I'm expecting a points trimming come the November points update.

Warthog is i2. That's what is keeping him cheaper than Hawk. He should always remain cheaper than Hawk but more expensive than Hound. As suggested, the LAAT/i is too expensive across the board. Again: that's my opinion. I'm not trying to poo-poo anybody else's.

6 Nantex was an oversight. Allowing one possible NPE because another exists is not a good move. I don't know that a LAAT + 6 V19 would be that bad, but I am glad they considered it. It honestly would probably be a toned down version of the Sloane Aggressor Swarm.

Warthog is i3. His ability is better than Hawk's. It's same reason that Oddball costs less than Sinker or Wolfe. I'm not saying that Warthog's price should go up, but rather that what ever Wart's price is, Hawk's should be lower than it.

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I for one, am happy if bovine spam has to work within an efficiency limit, rather than just run on up to it without a care.

The answer to whatever ails the meta is not enable a wheelbarrow full of supersharpshooting ships with the full national reserve of health points.

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8 hours ago, 5050Saint said:

6 Nantex was an oversight. Allowing one possible NPE because another exists is not a good move. I don't know that a LAAT + 6 V19 would be that bad, but I am glad they considered it. It honestly would probably be a toned down version of the Sloane Aggressor Swarm.

Warthog is i3. His ability is better than Hawk's. It's same reason that Oddball costs less than Sinker or Wolfe. I'm not saying that Warthog's price should go up, but rather that what ever Wart's price is, Hawk's should be lower than it.

I hardly think allowing six V-19s and a LAAT would merit any NPE. It wouldn't become the new "melt your face and hear the lamentations of de women" meta.

I'm curious to know what makes Warthog's ability better. It's subjective of course, but is it better because we're looking at it through the lense of competitive play? 

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9 hours ago, theBitterFig said:

I don't hate the thought of 50 point Sinker (Sinker + 6 Torrents would go on the potential-trouble watchlist, but might be OK), but with 50 point Sinker, I'd expect 49 Wolffe, 48 Oddball, 47 Jag.

Maybe a 51 point Jag, but the rest of it sounds about right. 😎

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20 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

Jag's not bad, but in no way is he the most powerful or ought to be the most expensive ARC.

Weren't you suggesting that the potency of an ability determines value?

Edited by Spitty81

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