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artemis8

Que: Valar Morgulis and Power of blood plots, military challenges...

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Hello, I would need an explanation regarding these situations:

a) There are Valar morgulis (killing all characters) and Power of blood (protecting characters with a noble crest from being killed) plots in play. 

During resolving plots in a plot phase, it is clear that all "noble" characters are automatically protected. 

Suppose that player A has 4 characters in play (2 nobles (with a noble crest)  and 2 other (normal)). His opponent (player B) makes a successfull military challenge (agaisnt the player A) with a claim value of 2. Does the player A  have to choose only the non-noble characters as casualties (because those noble ones can not be killed) or may he choose any characters he likes, even those 2 nobles, which cannot be killed?

A similar situation would occur, if there was Wildfire assault plot card in play (together with Power of blood and without Valar). May a player target (choose) characters, which are protected in some way from a damage, as casualties, or does he have to choose only those "non-protected"?

b) If there are 2 Valar morghulis plot cards in play (during one round), does it mean that also characters with duplicates are killed with certainty.

Thanks for your feedback.

 

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Hi, i dont know how you mean your questions but it seems you mix more things together. You play Valar in plot phase and in plot phase all the non-Noble characters die (when also Power of Blood is revealed). So in challenge phase those non-nobles are long gone. But if you marshall some more non-nobles in marshalling phase then you would have to kill on of those after you lose MIL challenge, since the word CANNOT on power of blood means that you cannot even try to kill the nobles so someone else has to die. If you would have only nobles then noone would die for MIL challenge. Also note that if your opponent plays Valar it has a 0 claim so your opponents challenges would have no effect on you this round (he could only claim power for unopposed or renown).

When there is Wildfire and PoB it is very easy. It say choose 3 characters and the rest dies, so you just choose up to 3 non-nobles to stay and all the nobles cannot be killed anyway so they stay in play too. During challenge phase it is the same as above. You would have to kill one of the non-nobles.

If you play 2 Valars then each character would have to be saved twice in order to stay in play. You could do that by various effects like 2 duplicates on a unique character or 2x Risen from the Sea in GJ, Lightbringer and dupe in Bara etc.

 

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Rosy, I have to admit that in my question a) was mentioning Valar a little bit redundant and confusing, but you grasped my point happy.gif

As to answer b) I forgot that characters (when Valar is played) have possibility to be saved, unlike for example Wildfire assault, so then its only question of played duplicates and saving effects.

 

a) Am I correct, that if more plot cards of the same title are played simultaneously, their effects are cumulative (but not always)? 

For example: There is one plot that enables players to have one additional military challenge during a challenge phase. So that more such played plot cards increase the number of avalilable military challenges, OK?

But what about for example playing 2 Wildfire assaults? Do player choose 6 chars or only 3 chars (there is a preposition "up to 3" in its wording), so do these effects cumulate or not?

b) If I would like to cancel some plot effect, I suppose that on the card it should be mentioned as a cancelling a plot effect, or is a plot effect supposed a normal triggered effect?

Thanks for explanation.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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The plot effects are cumulative so if both players play After the Mummer's Ford (+1 MIL challlenge) both players may initiate total of 3 MIL challenges.

But when deciding effects like Wildfire Assault (When Reavealed effects) it is different, the First Player determines which "When Revealed" effect of a plot happens first so he chooses the first WA to be resolved and after that there are only 3 characters left on each side so the second WA has no effect. So remember First player always decides the order of all When Revealed plot effects (BUT ONLY WHEN REVEALED EFFECTS).

About canceling plots. Plot effects are eighter constant (uncancelable - since they have no point of initiation - Like Power of Blood) or "when revealed" effects as mentioned above. Those could be canceled but they are not triggered (triggered effects are always marked with bold italic text with the ":" like Response: and Any Phase:) so the only thing able to cancel a plot effect right now in LCG is a Old Bear Mormont from the last CP.

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Rozy said:

The plot effects are cumulative so if both players play After the Mummer's Ford (+1 MIL challlenge) both players may initiate total of 3 MIL challenges.

But when deciding effects like Wildfire Assault (When Reavealed effects) it is different, the First Player determines which "When Revealed" effect of a plot happens first so he chooses the first WA to be resolved and after that there are only 3 characters left on each side so the second WA has no effect. So remember First player always decides the order of all When Revealed plot effects (BUT ONLY WHEN REVEALED EFFECTS).

There is a much easier, and consistent, way to think of this.

It is not that plot effects are "cumulative;" it is that each plot must be resolved separately.

So if you have two copies of Mummer's Ford, each one resolves. The first gives you +1 military challenge. The second gives you another +1 military challenge. 1+1= 2.

If you have two copies of Wildfire, each one resolves. The first resolves, so you choose 3 characters and kill the rest. When the second resolves, you still choose 3 characters and kill the rest, but you've only got 3 live characters left to choose at that point.

Same deal with two copies of Valar. Each one resolves. The first resolves and kills all characters in play. You could, of course, save them. Then the second copy resolves, killing all characters in play a second time. Any saved from the first will still need to be saved from the second.

So you see, the way you deal with multiple copies of the same plot isn't really different at all.

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