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artemis8

Que: No surrender op. card, LOS and height of a forest...

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Hello, recently we encoutered following 2 problems.

a) If a player has No surrender operations card (i.e. his squads do not rout) or he uses one card from leadership deck (something like Never give up..(Hero deck ?)., which has the same effect for one round), how are resolved following situations:

          i) This player has one his squad in a disrupted state and this squad survives an assault attack but has to retreat. Is this disrupted squad destroyed (as an effect after retreat, i.e it routs)  or is it saved from routing due to No surrender op. card?

           ii) In play is the Extreme heat weather card (which states that disrupted squads automaticaly rout). What happens,  if  one squad of a player with Desperate defenders card becomes disrupted with this weather card in play? Will that squad rout or not?

b) How high (as to a level) is considered a forest hex? Is it supposed to add 1 more level to a level of a hex on which it is situated? I ask because of checking the LOS between units in these situations :

            i) Both units are on level 1 hill hexes. The only blocking terrain beteween them is a level 0 hex with a forest hex. Do these units see each other or not?

             ii) If a forest hex is placed on a level 1 or level 2 hex (and it is marked i n some way to notify  that it is on a hill hex), then does it block LOS for units only on the same level as is the hex with the forest or also even to those other who stand higher? (the same problem asi i question i))

c)  One part of rules regarding LOS of units on different elevations confuses mi a little (page 24, the paragraph above the title "Blocking higher elevation"):

"Also, when dealing with varying unit elevations, a hill the same level or lower than the unit on the higher elevation is also considered blocking terrain for the purpose of determining blind hexes."

Consider a following situation: Three hexes in a line. First (border) hex  has level 2, the other hexes have level 1. On both border hexes there are units. Do these units (those on la border evel 1 hex  and those on level 2 hex see each other, if there is between them one level 1 hex or not?

I would think, that they do, but regarding the above mentioned rule they can not.

Thanks for your feedback.

 

 

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Let me try a stab at these intrigate problems:

a-i. ) Disrupted squads can not retreat, instead they are destroyed. Thus they are not destroyed because they Rout, they just die.
a-ii. ) Since the unit can not Rout, they can not Rout due to Extreame Heat either. (Don't) trumps (Do).

Terrain is one level high. And so far we have only terrain features at L0.
b-i. ) Since both units are at a higher elevation then the intervening terrain, there is LOS between the units.
b-ii. ) A forest placed on L1, would block LOS for units placed on L0 and L1. No official rules regulate this though. I would suggest that a simple rule would be to interpret the official rules in such a way that the absolute references become relative references. L1 to L0 becoming 'One level higher'.

c. ) I can understand your confusion. The rules are not totaly clear. But I think the general concensus agrees with you. A unit on L2 can see any unit on L1, as long as there are no L2 between them.

But strict wording of the rule suggests that any hex of the L1 or higher becomes blocking. Thus making it impossible for a unit on L2 to see a unit on L1 if there is L1 between, as it would be in the blind hex of the L1 between them.

 

 

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Thanks Hefsgaard for your answers, which seem very consistent happy.gif

But yet your answer to my question a) ii) - i.e. combination of No surrender and Extreme heat cards with a disrupted unit - does not seem to me right.

In the No surrender card is specified that... "Your squads can not be destroyed via suppresive attacks". But a factor of a heat is not by my opinion any kind of a suppresive attack, so in this case I would also be inclined to destroying such a (disrupted) squad.

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Artemis said:

Thanks Hefsgaard for your answers, which seem very consistent happy.gif

But yet your answer to my question a) ii) - i.e. combination of No surrender and Extreme heat cards with a disrupted unit - does not seem to me right.

In the No surrender card is specified that... "Your squads can not be destroyed via suppresive attacks". But a factor of a heat is not by my opinion any kind of a suppresive attack, so in this case I would also be inclined to destroying such a (disrupted) squad.

Your last remark makes sense. I tend to agree with you!

As for being able to see L1 hills from level 2 height: Yes, this is ALWAYS possible. Lower terrain is never blocking! ( See description of hills on terrain tile description rulebook base game).Only if terrain is the same level or higher does it block, or so we've always played it!

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