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Cloaker

Original Trilogy Fans/Factions

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Posted (edited)

If you had to summarize your 3 favorite releases or factional aspects of second edition, what would they be? Do you feel second edition has evolved to keep your chosen Rebel / Imperial / Scum ships relevant and exciting as far as product offerings? Do you look forward to future release or re-release content? What has been the high point of second edition for you in relation to your favorite OT faction? The low point? 

I'll offer my three favorite aspects of OT faction second edition release;

1) Hotshots and Aces 

2) System Open prizes (Red Squadron / Inferno / Bounty Hunter themed rewards) 

3) TIE Brute Annoucement 

 

What I'm disappointed in;

1) No significant expansion into Illicit upgrade design space equitable to what we've seen with the Force upgrades

2) No HWK-290 re-release 

3) Nearly 2 years into second edition, still no Lambda Shuttle or TIE Bomber

What are yours? 

Edited by Cloaker

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Am I allowed to weigh in if I’m a fan of these factions even if I’m a fan of others?

For me, my favorite things for the OT was:

1. Lando’s Falcon

2. Worlds Red Squadron dials/punch board 

3. Hotshots and Aces (yes please Leia Pilot, K2, and Nom Lumb in particular, though others are good too)

Disappointments:

1. Missing critical reprints, particularly for the empire. 
2. general lack of new content (nothing since wave 2’s mining guild tie until H&A and now the brute)

3. that’s it, I don’t think I have other disappointments right now 

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While the discussion may be about the Original Trilogy era factionsI think it's amusing that some of the stuff mentioned so far doesn't actually have much to do with the Original Trilogy itself, i.e.  ships from Solo and Rebels.

For me, it would be:

1:  Their Force abilities making Vader and Luke absolute beasts in game, forever and a day.  Regardless of what arrives in future, priced correctly they're always going to be pretty relevant.

2:  Release-wise, the articulated wings for the X-Wings and B-Wings are pretty sweet - as are the ways they incorporated them into the game (even if we had to wait for the B-Wing to get a mechanic to match the model).

3:  Red Squadron System Open prizes were pretty sweet I guess?  Especially combined with the Worlds stuff.

Disappointments:

1:  Slow Empire re-releases.  The TIE Bomber and Lambda should really be on the horizon at least by now.  Surprised that the Decimator - as a Legends ship - got a re-release before the Lambda, and maybe even that the Inquisitor's TIE made it in front of the Bomber, but on the other hand. the fact that the release schedule for 2nd edition doesn't entirely match the release schedule for 1st could lead to future surprises...

I can't really make too much criticism though; I was glad the Resistance and First Order became separate entities, and the prequel factions are a lot of fun as well.  Obviously they need to be the main release focus until they've caught up ground on the 1st edition three.

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For me, I love:

- conversion kits letting me keep playing all my OT ships (old news but appreciation increasing as we see how long it’s taking to get through re-releases)

- Hotshots and Aces: card packs expanding these already fleshed out factions without forcing in new ships? more please

Disappointment:

- I wish Rebel A-Wing and Tie Interceptor were more fleshed out with more pilots, configs, and/or mods.

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- SoS red squadron cards and templates

- the X-Wing miniatures are much improved. (Not a fan of the Ywing though...)

- Luke and Vader feel powerful and generally can be beaten (certain upgrades can ruin that)

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A-Wing pilots are my biggest disappointment.  Capping at I-4 just doesn’t do this ship justice.  Where is the rebel Soontir Fel?

And the B-Wing pilots feel a bit one note.  They are all about stress management.  

And if I were to have a third, I would appreciate a U-Wing reprint.

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Posted (edited)

Three favorite aspects: 

1) Hotshots and Aces

2) All ships feel way more thematically accurate

3) Future release of Phoenix/Skystrike/F&C

 

Most disappointed in:

1) The B-Wing Box. Why on earth didn't they wait until H&A so they could put Gina, AB, PS, and SSF in there? It's basically unusable without H&A. Also precludes them from thematically-accurately pricing SSF at 0 points since that's unfair to people who haven't bought H&A. Just a total fiasco of a screw-up. Who OKed this?

2) Card packs took way too long to arrive and haven't had half the content for OT factions they should have. We should have had at least 3 by now.

3) The RZ-1. I have two Phoenix blockers in almost every list I make because I love them, but they're crazy overpriced, missiles weren't relevant until recently, and most importantly, the definitive rebel ace chassis has zero aces! Meanwhile the RZ-2 has four I5 pilots. What gives?

4) Reprints on TIE Aggressor, Punisher, Gunboat, E-Wing, and K-Wing still haven't happened. I don't have 3 of the above at all, I want them, and I can't get them.

Edited by ClassicalMoser

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A.  I really don't have any complaints about how Imperial and Rebels are doing.

B.  This is because we have switched to Republic and Seperatists for 2.0, so we can enjoy the factions as they grow.

Which is probably a damning statement about how Rebs and Imps are being handled for 2.0.

As I have stated elsewhere, everything that was released as a 2.0 version should have been a repaint to drive sales.  Even Imperials had/have options (Inferno Squadron TIE).

Luckily, I prefer playing XWM over being faction-tied, and was really looking forward to Prequel stuff for years.

FFG needs to tap the new lore for excitement without needing new plastic--an Alphabet Squadron Pack done like the Heralds of Hope for Resistance would probably do wonders to assuage Rebel players.

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1 hour ago, Darth Meanie said:

As I have stated elsewhere, everything that was released as a 2.0 version should have been a repaint to drive sales.  Even Imperials had/have options (Inferno Squadron TIE).

What a bizarre complaint - most of them are.  The TIE Fighter, TIE Advanced and Inquisitor's TIE are all now the grey/blue of the TIE Interceptor and TIE Bomber, rather than first edition's grey/white.  The X-Wing, Y-Wing and B-Wing all have new sculpts and in the X-Wing and B-Wing's case, articulated models.  The Z-95 and Scyk are repaints.

Specific squadron markings = like Inferno Squadron are fine for, oh, say, packs like the new Resistance set, but not really suitable for standard model packs.  The Empire has a very standardised aesthetic, so giving the standard models a non-standard aesthetic is a bit silly, wouldn't you say?

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1 hour ago, FTS Gecko said:

What a bizarre complaint - most of them are.  The TIE Fighter, TIE Advanced and Inquisitor's TIE are all now the grey/blue of the TIE Interceptor and TIE Bomber, rather than first edition's grey/white.  The X-Wing, Y-Wing and B-Wing all have new sculpts and in the X-Wing and B-Wing's case, articulated models.  The Z-95 and Scyk are repaints.

I, for one, am *very* happy about the new consistently-coloured TIEs!  The new sculpts are great too.

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3 minutes ago, Joker Two said:

I, for one, am *very* happy about the new consistently-coloured TIEs!  The new sculpts are great too.

Yeah, same here.  I already had around half a dozen 1st edition X-Wings and 2 of each colour 1st edition B-Wings, but I pi ked up three new 2nd edition X-Wings and 2 new B-Wings as soon as they came out.  They're great!

Nothing against ships with squadron markings or special repaints but they should be saved for special packs, not for standard stock.  After all, if all TIE's are painted like Sabine's TIE, then what's the point of Sabine's TIE?  😂

 

 

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, FTS Gecko said:

what's the point of Sabine's TIE? 

To upset imperial players immensely, obviously.

Gotta love how good FFG is at linking their designs to theme!

Edited by dezzmont

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6 hours ago, FTS Gecko said:

What a bizarre complaint - most of them are.  The TIE Fighter, TIE Advanced and Inquisitor's TIE are all now the grey/blue of the TIE Interceptor and TIE Bomber, rather than first edition's grey/white.  The X-Wing, Y-Wing and B-Wing all have new sculpts and in the X-Wing and B-Wing's case, articulated models.  The Z-95 and Scyk are repaints.

Specific squadron markings = like Inferno Squadron are fine for, oh, say, packs like the new Resistance set, but not really suitable for standard model packs.  The Empire has a very standardised aesthetic, so giving the standard models a non-standard aesthetic is a bit silly, wouldn't you say?

Eh.

The xwing should have been blue Squadron and the y gray.

And going from white gray to blue gray wasn't near enough to make this Imperial player buy any new TIEs.

OTOH, I snagged 4 new Pheonix squad a wings.

I probably would have bought 4 Inferno TIEs, instead I have zero.

I bought 1 y wing for the new sculpt.  Probably would have bought more if it wasn't gold squad again.

I did also get the new Z95 and Scyk jobs, despite having far too many 1.0 copies. 

FFG could have suckered me into far more 2.0 ships with interesting alternate liveries.  Moving parts are far less exciting for me.

And I guess as you make me think about it, they did about 1/2.  Sadly, the Imperial stuff didn't tease me enough.

So, when they finally drop a new Raider, FO colors would be nice.

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15 hours ago, ClassicalMoser said:

1) The B-Wing Box. Why on earth didn't they wait until H&A so they could put Gina, AB, PS, and SSF in there? It's basically unusable without H&A.

Bizarre comment. 

One of the best pilots in the game since the start of second edition has been Braylen in the B-Wing with no upgrades. 

That hasn't changed. The most effective list with him got priced out of existence, but he's still one of the most solid 'naked' pieces in the game. Easily in the top three Rebel pilots, for whatever that's worth. 

All H&A did was give him an extra, optional tool and bring Ten up to Braylen's level pre-H&A. 

 

I agree that the should have put the new content in the B-Wing box to make things easier for new players, but at the time FFG were still sticking to the promise that returning 1e players wouldn't have to rebuy ships to get content for those ships.

Even assuming they knew about H&A when they decided on the B-Wing's release schedule (don't forget that the B-Wing expansion would have been decided on, scheduled and content locked long before it's actual release - it could have been over a year between that decision and the release of H&A, plenty of time to design and test the new content), they would have been in a very difficult position if they wanted to include it in the box.

 

5 hours ago, Darth Meanie said:

FFG could have suckered me into far more 2.0 ships with interesting alternate liveries.

 

You aren't the target market for the 2e re-release ships. Simple as. The re-releases are to give player who are new to the game in 2e an easy chance to physically pick up extra ships without having to also pick up a conversion kit. 

They are more likely to want the 'standard' look for these ships, which I think is completely understandable. FFG have obviously decided that selling standard ships to new players is worth more to them than selling repaints to old players. Your personal preferences are not enough of a counter argument to that, I'm afraid. 

FFG have, however, stumbled on to a winner with the remodels. They offer something new to returning players, while still retaining the 'classic' looks for new players. I've bought two of each of the new X-Wings, B-Wings and Y-Wings despite already having at least 2 of each from 1e because I like the improved models so much.  

 

Personally I think FFG made a huge mistake making the A-Wing re-release a repaint. I've seen quite a few new players annoyed that they can't get the classic red A-Wing, as it's one of those 1e models that's become hard to find. 

I get that it worked specifically for you as an encouragement, but I think FFG are now going to struggle to find a way to get 'standard' A-Wings back into the hands of players. And there is definitely demand for it. 

What's worse is that we know there's a Phoenix Squadron Pack coming for Rebels. While that may very well include yet another A-Wing paint scheme - maybe Hera's - I still think it would have been a better place to include the current A-Wing 2e expansion scheme. It's an opportunity for new cards, so players only interested in cards will pick them up. And those looking for repaints also get new content. It's win win. Personally, I'd quite like to have the Phoneix Squadron A-Wing, but I just don't need a fifth A-Wing model and the expansion itself only offers content I already have. 

Using Squadron Packs for repaints and new content together means everyone is happy. 

 

Back to topic:

On 8/9/2020 at 11:14 PM, Cloaker said:

If you had to summarize your 3 favorite releases or factional aspects of second edition, what would they be?

 

1) The Red 5 repaint X-Wing in the core set. I know that's a really simple thing, but I think it's brilliant. What  great distinction between the Core Set and standalone. It also meant I got a Luke who was actually a good pilot in X-Wing in his X-Wing without having to do any painting myself.

2) The B-Wing re-release. God, what a beautiful model. I think it's now my favourite model in the whole game. Nuff said, really. 

3) Related to something I said in the first point, I like how the factions have been rescoped to make sure the pilots you expect are the ones at the top of the pecking order. Darth Vader and Boba Fett are two of the best pilots in the game and (probably) the best pilots in their respective factions, as they should be. Luke Skywalker, Wedge Antilles and Han Solo are some of the strongest pilots the Rebels have, and if the faction were to be uplifted as a whole somehow, potentially they could be up there in "best in the game" rankings. Personally, I'm a huge fan of Wedge being playable in particular. 

 

On the more disappointing side:

1) The lack of content for Rebels since the start of 2e is starting to get to me. Leia was a cool addition to the Falcon, and I like K-2SO and the B-Wing s-foils, but that's pretty thin on the ground for what, three years now? Combine that with the lack of quality releases for Rebels even before the switchover and it feels like it's been a long drought for my favourite faction.

2) The distribution of content in the conversion kit has become very strange, in hindsight. The Rebel Y-Wing had just two pilots in 1e, but gained two in it's 2e standalone re-release. That first wave seemed to be establishing a pattern that 4 named, 2 generic was the new standard for small base ships. Even if they needed to create new pilots, or in the case of the TIE Advanced combine pilots from the original 1e standalone and the later bundled re-release. So I wasn't too worried then that the B-Wing, A-Wing and TIE Interceptor only had two named pilots each in the conversion kit, despite having more in 1e. I assumed they would be coming in the standalone expansion, like the Y-Wing. 

But they didn't. And so in hindsight, the amount of content for some pretty iconic movie ships seems.... odd. Why did they pare down so many A-Wing and TIE Interceptor pilots down to just two? Why, when the X-Wing, TIE Fighter and TIE Advanced kept a raft of pilots? They feel like they've missed out, and although the B-Wing's come out okay, and the TIE Interceptor still has Fel, I feel like they're all suffering for it - the A-Wing especially. Could they really not have kept Tycho? 

3) The re-release schedule. Wave 1 was a banger, but FFG have made some strange choices with what to re-release since then. Mostly this affects Scum, but the Empire hasn't come out unscathed either. Rebels are mostly okay. All the ships you'd expect to see are out and available for players new to 2e, and in general they've tried to offer something to returning players too. Bundling the Sheathipede with the Ghost instead of the Attack Shuttle seems weird though. I guess it's because it was easier to make it physically dock, but they seem to have made it impossible for themselves to re-release the Attack Shuttle now... For the other factions, why could they not have looked at what ships are actually out of stock? Why did the Decimator get a look in over the Lambda? Where's the TIE Bomber? What are FFG going to do about the Assault Gunboat, or the Star Viper?

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Posted (edited)

Love:

  1. Hotshots and Aces. Bring more of these.
  2. The upcoming Squadron packs (if the leaks are real)
  3. Good job on empowering Luke and Vader.

Disappointment:

  1. Some classics not reprinted yet (Lambda, TIE Bomber, Gunboat...)
  2. No new releases for the Empire and Rebels for a long time. Even with the TIE Brute Heavy, the Empire could use 1 or 2 more ships. Rebels need.. anything new.
  3. Some upgrades need more love (Cannons, Missiles, Illicit, Astromechs...)
  4. Sad A-wing has no relevance. 
  5. All Rebel/Scum re-released ships could have different paint schemes.
  6. Weird ship distribution in the conversion kits.
Edited by Odanan

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Love:

  1. Canonically strong characters are strong (aka Luke, Vader, Han, Grand Inquisitor)
  2. Diverse tools in the available ship choice. Each faction has a cheap filler, beef, support ships. Given Rebels have more Beef and Empire has more Mobility.
  3. Good synergy within the factions.

Hate:

  1. Both are outclassed by the new kids. Resistance with Tech slots and altered action bars has just straight out wider array of options to pick from. First Order has better gimmicks with their unique talents and again Tech slots.
  2. No Astromechs for Rebels. Two of the three uniques are just better R2 and R5. "Chopper" is okay... At best. Republic and Resistance are swimming in unique Astromechs.
  3. Lack of attention to some struggling chassis. Intercetor has Soontir Fel or generics, B-Wings had two named pilots, now Gina who is very mediocre. A-Wings have Jake who is an amazing Ace, if you have Initative or an expensive I3 if you don't. Arvel would be an amazing piece, if he was I2, not he is just okay with a high ceiling.
  4. Factions still rely heavily on cross vessel combos, which the other factions mostly skip. If one piece falls down, you lose a lot of ompf, which is not the threat of say Resistance with cheap Advanced Optics and Heroic.

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31 minutes ago, Schanez said:

Both are outclassed by the new kids. Resistance with Tech slots and altered action bars has just straight out wider array of options to pick from. First Order has better gimmicks with their unique talents and again Tech slots.

Yup - most of the time when I start looking at Ties, I end up pulling out FO instead because of the tie SF chassis (or the silencer/baron for aces).

Resistance As are way better than rebel ones it’s not even funny. And a heroic t70 just lasts way longer than any rebel t65. The points cost is there sure, but the rebels need all their ships on the board like you said or they lose their force multipliers rapidly. Losing one t65 is statistically worse for the rebel player than a resistance one losing a t70 (unless we are comparing dislike things such as a t70 Ace and t65 generic). Harder to recover from for the Rebels in any case.

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3 hours ago, ScummyRebel said:

Yup - most of the time when I start looking at Ties, I end up pulling out FO instead 

Empire I play the least of my OT collection, but I can only heartily agree.

For measly 3pts (three!) the TIE fo gets

-2 hard blues and 2 sloops

-tech slot

-target lock action

-shield upgrade

So for a value of 11+ they pay 3pts...

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7 hours ago, GuacCousteau said:

 I've seen quite a few new players annoyed that they can't get the classic red A-Wing, as it's one of those 1e models that's become hard to find. 

they seem to have made it impossible for themselves to re-release the Attack Shuttle now...

For the other factions, why could they not have looked at what ships are actually out of stock? Why did the Decimator get a look in over the Lambda? Where's the TIE Bomber? What are FFG going to do about the Assault Gunboat, or the Star Viper?

I think X-Wing players are going to have to get used to the idea that stuff isn't available all the time.

Paint jobs will come and go, and "non-core" ships are rarely reprinted.

A certain amount of core items that are currently in Hyperspace will be the SKUs in stock, and Extended is going to be all the gravy that long-term players have accumulated by being in the game for years.

5 hours ago, ScummyRebel said:

Yup - most of the time when I start looking at Ties, I end up pulling out FO instead because of the tie SF chassis (or the silencer/baron for aces).

Resistance As are way better than rebel ones it’s not even funny. And a heroic t70 just lasts way longer than any rebel t65. The points cost is there sure, but the rebels need all their ships on the board like you said or they lose their force multipliers rapidly. Losing one t65 is statistically worse for the rebel player than a resistance one losing a t70 (unless we are comparing dislike things such as a t70 Ace and t65 generic). Harder to recover from for the Rebels in any case.

It could be that Resistance and FO are going to be smaller factions with less options, and so those options are slightly better than Rebels and Empire.

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36 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

I think X-Wing players are going to have to get used to the idea that stuff isn't available all the time.

Paint jobs will come and go, and "non-core" ships are rarely reprinted.

A certain amount of core items that are currently in Hyperspace will be the SKUs in stock, and Extended is going to be all the gravy that long-term players have accumulated by being in the game for years.

I think this is all pretty reasonable. Buy what you want when you want it, or be willing to let it vanish. Particularly if it’s not a highly iconic ship.

I mean, look at our Armada brethren and what they’re stuck with. Oof, seems sad over there. Legion is also really hurting, although you’re responsible for paint jobs there. 

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Posted (edited)

Notably I'm mostly rebs if asked, Good:

1. Epic and Huge conversion play kits, love it to bits.

2. Configurations and movement for all the s-foil stuff, even if the B's are a bit wonky.

3. (Reserved) 5 X's. Finally.

The bad:

1. Dash, he needed knocked down a peg or five but yeesh. Haven't gotten to try the new price just yet.

2. A-wings. Feels bad next to autothrusters. Small pool. Low Init. Prockets got so meh. Paint is pretty cool though I guess.

3. (Reserved) E-wing. You poor sad creature you

Edited by ForceSensitive
Filled in reserved spots

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2 hours ago, ForceSensitive said:

2. A-wings. Feels bad next to autothrusters. Small pool. Low Init. Prockets got so meh. Paint is pretty cool though I guess.

 

This got me thinking. What if the A-Wing gained a config that allowed it to treat bullseye requirements as the full arc for either just missles or in general.

Suddenly Predator is really good on it, prockets no longer require the precision flying for their effect when they are pretty much built for the A-Wing.

It's an interesting thought.

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My biggest disappointment is I do not think they took enough time with the VCX for second edition. I think they could have made it a bit more thematic without having the thing be broken. 

I agree with the needs more astromechs. 

Rebels seeming to be shorted in favor of trying to push Resistance. The A-wing being the most obvious victim in that.

I would like a bit more options in being less ragtag and more military.

I think the other issue which I suppose applies more generally is having needed to price proton torpedoes so high. But that is just a difficulty in balancing generally. 

I think also which applies to scum as well is not being able to "hotrod" the freighters more whether with more specific chassis upgrades or generic mods or illicit upgrades. 

I like the new models.

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, Ebak said:

This got me thinking. What if the A-Wing gained a config that allowed it to treat bullseye requirements as the full arc for either just missles or in general.

Suddenly Predator is really good on it, prockets no longer require the precision flying for their effect when they are pretty much built for the A-Wing.

It's an interesting thought.

It's not a bad direction to look in at all. It would certainly be a nice boost. I maybe wouldn't go the general angle of changing how the one chassis interacts with all bullseye restrictions, since that's going to cause an issue anytime they want to make a new bullseye mechanic in the future. And I'm not opposed to the skill element it required, just that one of the tools to aim that bullseye got taken away: barrel roll AFTER boost. 

Other directions I'd look in to add to yours would be to just have a new "proton cluster rockets" that maybe are just the attack-focus, range one, front arc, 4atk ordnance, two charges. Or some such like that. Trade the higher end damage for easier close-in aim. And on a card that's just added to the pool for all ships to enjoy.

Another direction might be too try and reemphasize the A's speed. I believe the notion that when a ship gets to perform actions earlier it's part of it's speed representation. Like advsen make you feel like your reacting and moving faster as a ship or pilot. Like the new ETA I bet will feel super fast because of that early move, then into a high init move with post move. Something similar would be nice. So say...

"Astrobatic Expert" Elite, 1pts, small base only, Before you reveal dial(or system phase, whichever) you may perform a boost or roll. If you do you must perform a boost or roll during your next perform action step or suffer 1 damage at the end of that step.*

Whichever way they go, all that would be left is to figure out which box you put it in. Rebel faction pack "Phoenix Squadron"?

*Edit: just realized there is a timing issue with this. But hey it's just a general pitch. Didn't have to be perfect.

Edited by ForceSensitive

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