Best Hondo Caddy?

[theBitterFig 11,640]

2 minutes ago, KingmanHighborn said:

NPE?

Negative Play Experience.

If Hondo could barrel roll you in front of a rock, or boost you pointing towards a board edge, that'd be really toxic gameplay, at pretty much any price.

Thankfully, he can't.

[ClassicalMoser 4,018]

28 minutes ago, KingmanHighborn said:

If they have the action you can certainly barrel roll them so next turn they'll go over rocks, debris, mines, etc. Or out of arc... Same with the boost action. Hey ship at range 2, boost into r1 of Boba for me... Thank you. Also could coordinate something that's a red action, and so they are stressed, potentially messing up maneuvers and turning red maneuvers into white 2 straights. 

The whole idea of Hondo is "Help one guy hurt another" from the same team.

Of course, you want to try to minimize the hurting on your own team and minimize the helping on your opponent's team. Regardless, it's extremely unlikely that they would allow a "Hurt one guy, super-hurt another" against your enemy. That would just be abysmally horrific card design, and you would never use him on friendlies in that case.

As others have said, the way coordinate is written, it's the ship that is coordinated that gets to choose its own action, not the ship that coordinates it. The devs have to FAQ enemy coordinates to clarify this but it's clearly the intent here and from the existing rules.

[Wayne Argabright 1,581]

Corona-class armed frigate??

[KingmanHighborn 169]

50 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

Negative Play Experience.

If Hondo could barrel roll you in front of a rock, or boost you pointing towards a board edge, that'd be really toxic gameplay, at pretty much any price.

Thankfully, he can't.

Ah. Wouldn't bother me from either side of the table, but that does make his overall value a **** of a lot less. Certainly takes the fun out of using him IMHO. 

 

[theBitterFig 11,640]

1 minute ago, KingmanHighborn said:

Ah. Wouldn't bother me from either side of the table, but that does make his overall value a **** of a lot less. Certainly takes the fun out of using him IMHO. 

 

Well, super-tractor-Hondo would rightly cheese a lot of people off.  Being boosted to a position where you fly off the board would suck hard, even if you don't care.

As to the value, sure.  He can be sanely priced now, instead of Luke-Gunner levels.

As to fun, well, I dunno.  I think there's a lot of fun in figuring out when you can safely use Hondo against an opponent.  He gives someone an action, and he takes away an action from someone else.  Exploiting that symmetry seems pretty interesting, since each player remains ostensibly neutral in terms of how many actions they get each turn... but not really.  That surface level fairness, that doesn't wind up being fair at all on the table, is wicked cool.

[Boreas Mun 176]

It would be another Ensnare, but now range 1-3, fun fun.

[FriendofYoda 377]

4 hours ago, theBitterFig said:

I think there's a lot of fun in figuring out when you can safely use Hondo against an opponent.

I am honestly so pumped for this card, there’s a lot coming to be excited about, but this is definitely up there for my play group.

[Tyhar7 403]

Here's the rub tho, if you place Hondo on a high initiative ship you can coordinate on a ship that may have used some actions and not others. 

This is dependant on your opponent being able to choose an action they have already done this round and auto-fail, or not. Sure we'll be seeing some rules changes on that.

However if they cannot auto fail for example, you may coordinate on Vader who has already target locked and focused this round, finding themselves out of arc so they did not barrel roll. Now you have coordinated him they have to barrel roll either out of arc of his shot or into arc of yours.

So it could be used to negatively impact the opponent but it would rare cases. 

[theBitterFig 11,640]

5 hours ago, Tyhar7 said:

Here's the rub tho, if you place Hondo on a high initiative ship you can coordinate on a ship that may have used some actions and not others. 

This is dependant on your opponent being able to choose an action they have already done this round and auto-fail, or not. Sure we'll be seeing some rules changes on that.

However if they cannot auto fail for example, you may coordinate on Vader who has already target locked and focused this round, finding themselves out of arc so they did not barrel roll. Now you have coordinated him they have to barrel roll either out of arc of his shot or into arc of yours.

So it could be used to negatively impact the opponent but it would rare cases. 

A coordinated ship can already choose not to preform an action, best as we understand. *e* looked it up, see below.

Edited August 12, 2020 by theBitterFig

[Tyhar7 403]

41 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

A coordinated ship can already choose not to preform an action, best as we understand.

 COORDINATE (󲁈)

Pilots can coordinate to assist their allies. When a ship performs the 󲁈 action, it coordinates. A coordinating ship is a ship that is attempting to coordinate by performing the following steps:

1. Measure range from the coordinating ship to any friendly ships.

2. Choose another friendly ship at range 1–2.

3. The chosen ship performs one action. Additionally:

• While a ship coordinates, the coordinate fails if no friendly ship can be chosen. ◊ If the chosen ship attempts to perform an action but that action fails, the coordinate does not fail.

• If an ability instructs a ship to coordinate, this is different than performing a 󲁈 action. A ship that coordinates without performing the action can still perform the 󲁈 action this round.

Unless I overlooking something (I'll be honest I quite often do) there doesn't appear to be anything in the current rules that states you can choose to fail being coordinated?

Obviously the current rules are written for coordinating friendly units, you wouldn't likely use it on an action you've already carried out or wish to fail. 

Think we can all agree there is likely to be an alteration with the introduction of being able to coordinate an enemy. 

It's quite clear we don't want the opponent forcing coordination on your ships that they can choose. However would it be to much to be forced to take an action that is available to you?

Maybe a discussion for another thread. Don't want to derail this one.

 

Edited August 12, 2020 by Tyhar7

[theBitterFig 11,640]

17 minutes ago, Tyhar7 said:

Maybe a discussion for another thread. Don't want to derail this one.

I think it's worth addressing myths about how Holdo works in a thread discussing how to best use Holdo.

Anyhow, the relevant line is from the Actions rule on p. 3: "A ship can choose not to perform an action during the Perform Action step or when granted an action."

[Tyhar7 403]

8 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

I think it's worth addressing myths about how Holdo works in a thread discussing how to best use Holdo.

Anyhow, the relevant line is from the Actions rule on p. 3: "A ship can choose not to perform an action during the Perform Action step or when granted an action."

Again, case in point, something I've overlooked. 😀

 

Well keeping with the thread, as a resistance player Rose pod is definitely on my radar with this chap. Her ability is pretty strong without actions so having Hondo to coordinate and jam at range is pretty good. 

Edited August 12, 2020 by Tyhar7

[5050Saint 2,168]

19 minutes ago, Tyhar7 said:

Think we can all agree there is likely to be an alteration with the introduction of being able to coordinate an enemy. 

This card needs a FAQ. Several questions have come out of it:

• Can I coordinate an enemy ship? Hondo implies an exception, but doesn't outright say he can.  Rules Reference only mentions friendly ships. It may seem a simple exception of an upgrade stepping outside the bounds of the rules, but Hondo doesn't explicitly say that he can coordinate enemy ships, so is it a Golden Rule exception if only implied?
• Can I coordinate a stressed ship? AP-5, Primed Thrusters, Rey's Millenium Falcon, Nodin Chavdri, Lorma Dacy all allow it, but are the exceptions per the Golden Rules? Or are they the norm, and you can coordinate a stressed ship, they just can't perform the coordinated action much like a stressed ship in the perform action step.
• Can a coordinated ship elect not to take an action? Yes. Per the rules reference, "A ship can choose not to perform an action during the Perform Action step or when granted an action."
• If Hondo somehow fails to coordinate one of the ships, must the targets of the jam/coordinate be swapped? This one is a stretch, because it presupposes that somehow the coordinate could fail. The text does not say must, but it also does not say may. So are both required to happen if possible?

I have the opinion that RAI is the way that these should be interpreted, but regardless of how I fall on any of these questions, I want clarification.