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urloony

So Hulk is out

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This was a surprise to me as the upcoming releases still show Hulk as "in production."  I know not to trust the release info there, plus with Covid etc.   Here's the card list if anyone still doesn't know what is featured.  My question: Why no Rick Jones?  I know in the live stream they talked about Hulk not having an ally, but certainly in Silver Age Hulk, where I am more well versed, Rick is involved quite a lot with Hulk.  I'm not suggesting FFG should have brought in the whole "Teen Brigade," but it would have been nice to see Rick or at least Betty.  I like Abomination as a nemesis, but General Ross might have been an interesting choice as well.

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2 hours ago, Derrault said:

I never read his comics, so who is Rick Jones?

Rick Jones is the kid that is messing about in the Gamma Bomb testing area and Banner drives out there to save him before the bomb goes off. He pushes him into a ditch and then gets hit by the blast himself, turning him into the Hulk.

From guilt / a sense of wanting an adventure, he follows the Hulk around for a bit and tries to help out. Later he meets the Avengers and sort of hangs out with them and later shares space with Captain Marvel. He was kind of the view point for the reader in the 60’s (the Everyman), but he’s not really been very relevant to Hulk for quite some time (I think he might have been the new Abomination a while ago? But I forget...

I would have been shocked if he had been included in the Hulks deck - the inspiration seems to be the last 10 years or so of comics and Rick Jones just isn’t a big part of Hulk’s story any more... No Doc Samson is much weirder to me...

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6 hours ago, FearLord said:

I would have been shocked if he had been included in the Hulks deck - the inspiration seems to be the last 10 years or so of comics and Rick Jones just isn’t a big part of Hulk’s story any more... No Doc Samson is much weirder to me...

Perhaps you're right that the inspiration is the last 10 years, but I don't get that vibe from Caleb.  He is more of an old-school comics guy, so I wouldn't have been shocked to see Rick.  The rest of his team is definitely younger and that coupled with the various new characters Marvel wants to push right now you might be right.  Classic minor characters that have less prominence in new comics may not have as much sway in finding a place in the game.  The irony is that if this game was made 10 years ago, you'd have never seen Squirrel Girl, a terrible character with one unfortunate appearance in the 90's who somehow clawed her way into her own book in the 2000's.  I'm sure her hero deck will be coming soon.  

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1 minute ago, urloony said:

Perhaps you're right that the inspiration is the last 10 years, but I don't get that vibe from Caleb.  He is more of an old-school comics guy, so I wouldn't have been shocked to see Rick.  The rest of his team is definitely younger and that coupled with the various new characters Marvel wants to push right now you might be right.  Classic minor characters that have less prominence in new comics may not have as much sway in finding a place in the game.  The irony is that if this game was made 10 years ago, you'd have never seen Squirrel Girl, a terrible character with one unfortunate appearance in the 90's who somehow clawed her way into her own book in the 2000's.  I'm sure her hero deck will be coming soon.  

We can only hope!

 

6 hours ago, FearLord said:

Rick Jones is the kid that is messing about in the Gamma Bomb testing area and Banner drives out there to save him before the bomb goes off. He pushes him into a ditch and then gets hit by the blast himself, turning him into the Hulk.

From guilt / a sense of wanting an adventure, he follows the Hulk around for a bit and tries to help out. Later he meets the Avengers and sort of hangs out with them and later shares space with Captain Marvel. He was kind of the view point for the reader in the 60’s (the Everyman), but he’s not really been very relevant to Hulk for quite some time (I think he might have been the new Abomination a while ago? But I forget...

I would have been shocked if he had been included in the Hulks deck - the inspiration seems to be the last 10 years or so of comics and Rick Jones just isn’t a big part of Hulk’s story any more... No Doc Samson is much weirder to me...

Odd, doesn’t he get a shout out in the write up? 
 

Saturated by deadly gamma rays while saving his best friend from the detonation of an experimental bomb

 

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8 hours ago, FearLord said:

the inspiration seems to be the last 10 years or so of comics

Just another thought, Caleb had intended to develop Hank Pym and Jan for Ant-Man and Wasp, Marvel said no, go with Scott Lang.  This lends some credence to your point, however, I think it might be more of a Marvel directive to use recent comics, not necessarily the design team.  It's also possible that with the variety of hero designers, they've had some AH designers step in and design heroes, some of the designers are simply unfamiliar with the characters or history.  Perhaps the limit of what they know is from the MCU?  I'm excited to play Hulk, but he does seem pretty one dimensional in game design terms, which is juxtaposed with the complexity of the actual comic character.

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1 hour ago, urloony said:

Just another thought, Caleb had intended to develop Hank Pym and Jan for Ant-Man and Wasp, Marvel said no, go with Scott Lang.  This lends some credence to your point, however, I think it might be more of a Marvel directive to use recent comics, not necessarily the design team.  It's also possible that with the variety of hero designers, they've had some AH designers step in and design heroes, some of the designers are simply unfamiliar with the characters or history.  Perhaps the limit of what they know is from the MCU?  I'm excited to play Hulk, but he does seem pretty one dimensional in game design terms, which is juxtaposed with the complexity of the actual comic character.

They have said that the direction from Marvel about using Scott Lang was the only time they've received direction, and even then, my understanding of it was that Marvel didn't say they have to, they just kinda asked if they would rather.

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2 hours ago, urloony said:

Just another thought, Caleb had intended to develop Hank Pym and Jan for Ant-Man and Wasp, Marvel said no, go with Scott Lang.  This lends some credence to your point, however, I think it might be more of a Marvel directive to use recent comics, not necessarily the design team.  It's also possible that with the variety of hero designers, they've had some AH designers step in and design heroes, some of the designers are simply unfamiliar with the characters or history.  Perhaps the limit of what they know is from the MCU?  I'm excited to play Hulk, but he does seem pretty one dimensional in game design terms, which is juxtaposed with the complexity of the actual comic character.

I mean... Scott Lang has been Ant Man since the 70’s and Hank Pym hasn’t been Ant Man since the 60’s, so that’s not that weird to me. Jan not being used is more surprising to me, especially as a Fashion Designer Alter ego seems like interesting new ground for this game specifically.

I’m not really surprised to not see Rick Jones though - he hasn’t been relevant to Marvel for a long time - I’ve been reading the majority of Marvel comics for the last 30 years or so, and I only recall 3 uses of the character in that time:

- The Kang / Immortus event with Future Avengers

- The Genis-Vell Captain Marvel run from the early 2000’s

-The A-Bomb Hulk story line (although I didn’t really read that one too closely)

He’s not well used. Actually, he crops up in the ‘interview’ sections about the origins of the Avengers in the 2010 ‘Heroic Age’ books, but he’s not really especially relevant in this day and age. He could have been a support I guess...

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1 hour ago, FearLord said:

I mean... Scott Lang has been Ant Man since the 70’s and Hank Pym hasn’t been Ant Man since the 60’s, so that’s not that weird to me. Jan not being used is more surprising to me, especially as a Fashion Designer Alter ego seems like interesting new ground for this game specifically.

I’m not really surprised to not see Rick Jones though - he hasn’t been relevant to Marvel for a long time - I’ve been reading the majority of Marvel comics for the last 30 years or so, and I only recall 3 uses of the character in that time:

- The Kang / Immortus event with Future Avengers

- The Genis-Vell Captain Marvel run from the early 2000’s

-The A-Bomb Hulk story line (although I didn’t really read that one too closely)

He’s not well used. Actually, he crops up in the ‘interview’ sections about the origins of the Avengers in the 2010 ‘Heroic Age’ books, but he’s not really especially relevant in this day and age. He could have been a support I guess...

Sorry, but what is his profession? Like, what is he supposed to be doing vs what does he actually ‘do’ in most stories?

Is his role just hapless recurring schmuck?

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12 minutes ago, Derrault said:

Sorry, but what is his profession? Like, what is he supposed to be doing vs what does he actually ‘do’ in most stories?

Is his role just hapless recurring schmuck?

When he first appears, he’s essentially just a teenager. He’s kind of a wandering musician with no fixed job in the years following that. Semi professional sidekick sort of sums him up once the Avengers form - Cap sort of trains him for a while and kind of wants him to be the new Bucky for a bit. 

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1 hour ago, FearLord said:

When he first appears, he’s essentially just a teenager. He’s kind of a wandering musician with no fixed job in the years following that. Semi professional sidekick sort of sums him up once the Avengers form - Cap sort of trains him for a while and kind of wants him to be the new Bucky for a bit. 

Sounds like the Wesley Crusher of the Marvel universe. 

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5 hours ago, DarthofZA said:

They have said that the direction from Marvel about using Scott Lang was the only time they've received direction, and even then, my understanding of it was that Marvel didn't say they have to, they just kinda asked if they would rather.

Yeah, it wasn't an option.  If you think it was, you don't know Disney or Marvel.  I know they said this was the first time they were given a mandate, but we also know none of the design team had ever heard of Kamala Khan.  So who suggested that one?

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3 hours ago, FearLord said:

I mean... Scott Lang has been Ant Man since the 70’s and Hank Pym hasn’t been Ant Man since the 60’s, so that’s not that weird to me. Jan not being used is more surprising to me, especially as a Fashion Designer Alter ego seems like interesting new ground for this game specifically.

I agree, there's no problem going with Scott Lang.  I also think Nadia is a poor choice, but I think became necessary once they had to go with Scott. 

 

2 hours ago, Derrault said:

Sorry, but what is his profession? Like, what is he supposed to be doing vs what does he actually ‘do’ in most stories?

Before the world knows that Bruce Banner is the Hulk, Rick spends a lot of time helping him keep his secret identity (this is very early silver age).  He helps Hulk back to his "secret hideout" in the desert, he leads the teen brigade which helps out the Avengers as FearLord mentioned.  This is all very old stuff, by is a charm that has been lost in the modern era IMO. 

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52 minutes ago, Derrault said:

Sounds like the Wesley Crusher of the Marvel universe.

Yeah, he's a mixed bag of love and hate.  He's a relic of the Golden Age side-kick requirement for super heroes.

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14 minutes ago, urloony said:

Yeah, it wasn't an option.  If you think it was, you don't know Disney or Marvel.  I know they said this was the first time they were given a mandate, but we also know none of the design team had ever heard of Kamala Khan.  So who suggested that one?

We **** well know Sana Amanant made then use her self insert character....despite having nothing to do with the Avengers.

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The packs are pretty much always first Friday of the month.

 

I know there are some people that are disappointed that Betty Ross isnt in. I saw a custom card that replaces Banner's Lab with Betty Ross (that does the same thing).

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5 hours ago, urloony said:

Yeah, it wasn't an option.  If you think it was, you don't know Disney or Marvel.  I know they said this was the first time they were given a mandate, but we also know none of the design team had ever heard of Kamala Khan.  So who suggested that one?

We already know that the devs have been looking at the Marvel film properties for which characters to use. I'm sure they've also looked at the upcoming series. They've said they'd have to be morons not to capitalize on all that free marketing. So it makes sense that they'd come out with Kamala early. She's one of the best selling solo books of the past several years, she's got a series on Disney+ coming up, and she's also headlining the Marvel's Avengers video game.

Even if the devs hadn't read her book before, I bet they've looked at things like sales numbers and who's being featured in current big budget projects the same way they noticed the films. And since Kamala's got those Avengers connections (both in the comics and in the current AAA video game featuring the Avengers) it makes since to get her out during the Avengers cycle.

 

I don't think there's really any reason to doubt them when they say that Scott Lang was the first suggestion they got from above.

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7 hours ago, urloony said:

Yeah, it wasn't an option.  If you think it was, you don't know Disney or Marvel.  I know they said this was the first time they were given a mandate, but we also know none of the design team had ever heard of Kamala Khan.  So who suggested that one?

Not only does this go against what the devs said about what has happened, it goes against several film maker's experiences working with Marvel as per those film makers.

You could provide some evidence to back these assertions, but until then, I'll dismiss it (that which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence).

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19 hours ago, urloony said:

Yeah, it wasn't an option.  If you think it was, you don't know Disney or Marvel.  I know they said this was the first time they were given a mandate, but we also know none of the design team had ever heard of Kamala Khan.  So who suggested that one?

An intern loved her and suggested her, so the devs read her comics and decided she would be a great addition to the game. One of them talked about this in an early livestream, I believe.

11 hours ago, DarthofZA said:

Not only does this go against what the devs said about what has happened, it goes against several film maker's experiences working with Marvel as per those film makers.

You could provide some evidence to back these assertions, but until then, I'll dismiss it (that which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence).

I... don't know. It definitely sounded to me like the kind of suggestion that you don't really have a choice about.

Hank Pym hasn't been AntMan for decades, from what I've gathered, and in modern comics he's more known as a wife-beater or Pymtron than anything else. Marvel's been trying to make Scott Lang the name people think of when they think Ant-Man for a long while, and it's not remotely surprising that they'd nix the idea of using Hank over Scott for a game.

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18 hours ago, t4leswapper said:

 She's one of the best selling solo books of the past several years, she's got a series on Disney+ coming up, and she's also headlining the Marvel's Avengers video game. 

Even if the devs hadn't read her book before, I bet they've looked at things like sales numbers and who's being featured in current big budget projects the same way they noticed the films. And since Kamala's got those Avengers connections (both in the comics and in the current AAA video game featuring the Avengers) it makes since to get her out during the Avengers cycle.

I don't think there's really any reason to doubt them when they say that Scott Lang was the first suggestion they got from above.

We've been through this before with Kamala.  Despite Disney's claim, Kamala is far from the best selling book and is in fact one of the worst selling books Marvel has had.  This can be shown objectively.  They claim digital sales are high, but that is not something anyone in the public can confirm, because the numbers aren't published.  The only reason I doubt them, is because no one on the Dev team had a clue as to who Ms. Marvel was, I'm sure they still thought it was Danvers, and had to have it spoon fed to them by reading her comic line in order to develop the character.   

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16 hours ago, DarthofZA said:

Not only does this go against what the devs said about what has happened, it goes against several film maker's experiences working with Marvel as per those film makers.

You could provide some evidence to back these assertions, but until then, I'll dismiss it (that which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence).

If a massive, brand new IP, suggests going a particular direction, only an idiot would say "nah."  In the live stream Marvel made the "suggestion," Caleb had originally planned to go a different direction, and changed his mind.  I'm not sure what the mystery is here.

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4 hours ago, SpiderMana said:

An intern loved her and suggested her, so the devs read her comics and decided she would be a great addition to the game. One of them talked about this in an early livestream, I believe.

That makes sense, and a good possibility.  

 

4 hours ago, SpiderMana said:

Hank Pym hasn't been AntMan for decades, from what I've gathered, and in modern comics he's more known as a wife-beater or Pymtron than anything else.

Yeah, Scott Lang is fine.  The story line with Hank and the whole wife-beater thing is unfortunate, but I'm not sure how many casual fans would be aware of that. 

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What I read recently of Rick Jones was that he was a computer hacker working for SHIELD (more like drafted though- work for us, or go to jail). I think if he showed up in the game he's gotten around enough to be a basic support (persona).

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5 hours ago, urloony said:

We've been through this before with Kamala.  Despite Disney's claim, Kamala is far from the best selling book and is in fact one of the worst selling books Marvel has had.  This can be shown objectively.  They claim digital sales are high, but that is not something anyone in the public can confirm, because the numbers aren't published.  The only reason I doubt them, is because no one on the Dev team had a clue as to who Ms. Marvel was, I'm sure they still thought it was Danvers, and had to have it spoon fed to them by reading her comic line in order to develop the character.   

In terms of her book being so high selling, I was just going by the NYT bestsellers lists. She's perennially a top 3 on the best sellers list. She debuted at number 1. In terms of no one on the dev team knowing who she was- their comics knowledge wasn't particularly expansive. They each had their favorites, but it's not like they kept up with all of Marvel. Having taught at middle and high schools, however, I can assure you that Ms. Marvel is incredibly popular among teenage comics fans. 

 

As Boggs pointed out, her narrative space is pretty much the classic Peter Parker narrative space from those 60's and 70's comics. It's no wonder that today's teens are just as enamored of Kamala as we were of Petey.

Edited by t4leswapper

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