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GenCon Top 8 - Fifth Trooper Blog

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28 minutes ago, Alpha17 said:

Interesting that the Empire only has a single list in this, considering a year ago they were considered top dog by many, many players. 

Everybody got powerful, new toys that add diversity to their factions; Empire - not so much.

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6 hours ago, costi said:

Everybody got powerful, new toys that add diversity to their factions; Empire - not so much.

R2 is probably that good and then some.

Droids have perfect activation control and excellent anchors.

A lot of the crazy OP Imperial stuff has been dismantled.  I don't feel like anything is signficiantly underpowered, but they could use a little push somewhere like on the AT-ST or the base Stormtroopers.  A lot of their stuff has been ported elsewhere in slightly more efficient packages.

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29 minutes ago, LunarSol said:

they could use a little push somewhere like on the AT-ST

Particularly after seeing both the Saber and AAT make it into the top 8, I fully expect to see some buffs to Imperial and Rebel heavies. Have any of them made it into the top 8 at any high-level tournament like this before? 

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4 hours ago, Lochlan said:

Particularly after seeing both the Saber and AAT make it into the top 8, I fully expect to see some buffs to Imperial and Rebel heavies. Have any of them made it into the top 8 at any high-level tournament like this before? 

 The AT-ST destroys the tanks. The problem is, their army, other than Veers, doesn’t compliment them very well. If tanks continue to be successful, Imperials will need to diversify their lists. 

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11 hours ago, arnoldrew said:

Everyone was panicking over how OP Iden was and the 2nd place list (over 2 Taun-Taun lists as well) is a Cassian list.

It actually inspired me. I’m seriously thinking about buying Jyn and trying to play that sort of list. Probably find a way to sub the heavy weapons if I can for the rebel troopers. Right when I was going to say “not buying any more Rebels” too. 

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Just now, ScummyRebel said:

It actually inspired me. I’m seriously thinking about buying Jyn and trying to play that sort of list. Probably find a way to sub the heavy weapons if I can for the rebel troopers. Right when I was going to say “not buying any more Rebels” too. 

I’m tempted to start Rebels.  I’d be all in if Han just had Entourage: Chewie so I could run the 6.  

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Posted (edited)
On 8/7/2020 at 7:10 AM, costi said:

Everybody got powerful, new toys that add diversity to their factions; Empire - not so much.

The empire hasnt adapted their list since shoretroopers IMO that is the issue not others shiny new toys.  

Edited by Uetur

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Posted (edited)

I do wonder if people took less than optimal lists because it was online (which is great) 

It's easier to give a list a go with an online tourney rather then a physical tournament.  When you're paying for travel/accommodation and miniatures, and not sitting at home, I think that somewhat incentivises a different attitude to the game. Just a thought. 

Edited by Memorare

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5 hours ago, Memorare said:

I do wonder if people took less than optimal lists because it was online (which is great) 

It's easier to give a list a go with an online tourney rather then a physical tournament.  When you're paying for travel/accommodation and miniatures, and not sitting at home, I think that somewhat incentivises a different attitude to the game. Just a thought. 

Maybe *some* people, but for the sub-optimal, for the lulz lists to make top 8 it would requiere that *everyone* at the tournament was running sub-optimal lists.

Unless one wants to argue that the ones with the suboptimal lists just happen to be the best players *and* there's that amount of difference between them and the rest. Which would be a stretch imo.

 

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Qwar said:

Maybe *some* people, but for the sub-optimal, for the lulz lists to make top 8 it would requiere that *everyone* at the tournament was running sub-optimal lists.

Unless one wants to argue that the ones with the suboptimal lists just happen to be the best players *and* there's that amount of difference between them and the rest. Which would be a stretch imo.

 

I don't necessarily think so. In every game system, there are lists that seem to appear out of nowhere. Sometimes they arrive following a meta change, and it's the first instance of an innovation. Sometimes they arrive because the player running that list plays nothing else and has tons of experience with it. But because of it's perceived suboptimal nature, nobody has experience playing against it. And sometimes people just get lucky with matchups etc and random stuff appears as a one off.

In X-wing, for instance, a friend of mine is known internationally for never really deviating from the style of list he liked no matter what the meta was doing. He made the top cut at Worlds and many other tournaments taking lists that anyone there would tell you are suboptimal.

A list is just a list. It only becomes optimal when it's used well. With obviously powerful lists, it's easier to use them well so people gravitate to them. Though difficult, a well piloted "under powered" list can still perform very well.

Edited by Sekac

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Posted (edited)

That's all well for the outliers. The fact still remains that imperial lists, even playing the "overpowered" shoretrooper+mortar conbo by the dozen, have failed miserably. That's not outlier good or bad players, it's statistics.

Edited by Qwar

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it's actually really simple, everything the Empire did well the GAR do it better. Shoretroopers are basically Clonetroopers which require orders to get a token, Clones just take someone else token. The Tank is better than either Empire heavies, Kenobi and Rex are better than Vader and Veers, Padme and R2 secret missions are easier to score than bounty, Scouts suck,Dewbacks suck, Strike Teams will get murdered by GAR strike teams.Empire also has the most speed 1 units... did i forget anything ?

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1 hour ago, Darth evil said:

it's actually really simple, everything the Empire did well the GAR do it better. Shoretroopers are basically Clonetroopers which require orders to get a token, Clones just take someone else token. The Tank is better than either Empire heavies, Kenobi and Rex are better than Vader and Veers, Padme and R2 secret missions are easier to score than bounty, Scouts suck,Dewbacks suck, Strike Teams will get murdered by GAR strike teams.Empire also has the most speed 1 units... did i forget anything ?

In the top 4 all the factions were represented.  That being said the META shifted and the empire has to adjust.  The empire has been stuck in a shoretrooper gunline rut forever and the META is punishing them for this.  The empire doesn't just have a Taun Taun problem, it as a double AAT problem as well and a saber tank problem.  Do you know what faction used to laugh at vehicles, it was the empire but now its standard build has 60% of its units without impact and it can't realistically counter armor.  

The GAR does the gunline better and all its units synergize to it.  Kenobi is better because he protects the gunline, Rex is better because he enhances the gunline.  The clone gunline is not typically a range 4 gunline though (outside of a turn with Rex).  There is a reason the Z6 is taken because their base costs is so high.  You can build a stormtrooper gunline which is stronger against vehicles will have more activations or upgrades, or a stronger commander for the same costed GAR army.  I actually disagree the GAR does everything the empire does better, it has to get action economy to make up for at least 1 fewer action or a compromised weaker unit.   

R2D2 is oddly enough the unit that is most important to the GAR and the imps don't have really anything equivalent.  5 of the 8 top eight lists had just that one unit.  You give imps/CIS a equivalent unit and you would see the empire dominate the GAR imo.  

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19 hours ago, smickletz said:

 The AT-ST destroys the tanks. The problem is, their army, other than Veers, doesn’t compliment them very well. If tanks continue to be successful, Imperials will need to diversify their lists. 

Imperials have and impact 3 take weapon option that everyone ignores

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4 hours ago, Sekac said:

That may be true generally, I don’t know the statistics. We're just talking about the top 8 finishers of a single tournament.

https://tournament-dashboard.herokuapp.com/

 

56 minutes ago, Tirion said:

Imperials have and impact 3 take weapon option that everyone ignores

The thing that cannot move and shoot and exhausts? Yes I wonder why it is ignored.

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2 hours ago, Tirion said:

Imperials have and impact 3 take weapon option that everyone ignores

But everyone knows the DLT is totally able to handle it...and everyone knows you can just ignore those heavies and win handily anyway, or so I have heard ad naseum. 🤥

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The obvious questions are of course:

Who did and didn’t even compete that did from last year? Who changed factions? Builds? Are there any through lines at all once you control for prior placement? Is there a control, or is this a sui generis outcome?

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