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Tie Brute Cannon and HLC

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The ship ability on the Tie Brute states "You can rotate your arc indicator only to your forward arc or rear arc (symbols used).  You must treat the forward arc (symbol) requirement of your equipped cannon upgrades as arc indicator symbol"

In the FFG live stream they clearly state that you can't use heavy laser cannon in this manner since it only has a bull's eye firing arc (no forward arc).  Makes complete sense.

Can you equip HLC anyway and always have a bullseye out the front while your primary gun is rotated out the back?

Seems like there should be no problem with this as it's a cannon, it doesn't have a forward firing arc, so the ship ability doesn't apply to it, but it is otherwise equippable.

 

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I hate this ship. Hated it from the moment i saw it in the movie just because of what it represented. This ship should not have a primary weapon. It should only have a cannon upgrade slot for its weapon (as spec wise, the cannon was its ONLY armament) and its ability included a slight discount in points to canon upgrades (or priced lower overall with the paying for the canons in mind).

/steps off soap box

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21 minutes ago, Lyianx said:

I hate this ship. Hated it from the moment i saw it in the movie just because of what it represented. This ship should not have a primary weapon. It should only have a cannon upgrade slot for its weapon (as spec wise, the cannon was its ONLY armament) and its ability included a slight discount in points to canon upgrades (or priced lower overall with the paying for the canons in mind).

/steps off soap box

I feel like FFG learned the wrong lesson from the jabs made at the 1-die primary weapon on the 1e HWK.

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2 hours ago, JBFancourt said:

I’m liking the design. I love the sf design and it’s fun to have a canon sf

Oh, I think it's a solid looking ship... but the thought of just not having a primary weapon on the ship would have been pretty interesting too.

Overall, I think the Brute is going to be a lot worse than a TIE/sf, since your rotates are a lot trickier, and medium bases kinda suck, and a large part of why TIE/sfs are as good as they are is the fact that they can weave through stuff and fly past safely, but a medium base will have a *LOT* harder time with that.

However, Ion Cannon is nice, oh... and Autoblasters could be nasty with some crits.

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3 hours ago, theBitterFig said:

Oh, I think it's a solid looking ship... but the thought of just not having a primary weapon on the ship would have been pretty interesting too.

Overall, I think the Brute is going to be a lot worse than a TIE/sf, since your rotates are a lot trickier, and medium bases kinda suck, and a large part of why TIE/sfs are as good as they are is the fact that they can weave through stuff and fly past safely, but a medium base will have a *LOT* harder time with that.

However, Ion Cannon is nice, oh... and Autoblasters could be nasty with some crits.

Ion Cannon will be the go-to weapon of choice, I think.  Autoblasters have the unfortunate side effect of losing the extra attack die for bullseye, when the turret is rotated backwards.

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Posted (edited)
30 minutes ago, emeraldbeacon said:

Ion Cannon will be the go-to weapon of choice, I think.  Autoblasters have the unfortunate side effect of losing the extra attack die for bullseye, when the turret is rotated backwards.

Do Brutes look like the have a Gunner slot (I can't remember the spread)?  If so, Fifth Brother + Autoblasters = Leviathan.  Nasty, brutish, and short (range).

Edited by theBitterFig

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18 hours ago, Lyianx said:

I hate this ship. Hated it from the moment i saw it in the movie just because of what it represented. This ship should not have a primary weapon. It should only have a cannon upgrade slot for its weapon (as spec wise, the cannon was its ONLY armament) and its ability included a slight discount in points to canon upgrades (or priced lower overall with the paying for the canons in mind).

/steps off soap box

Don't know about the primary weapon, but I'd like a ship ability that allows the ship to use "primary weapon" talents (such as Predator, Crack Shot, etc.) with Cannons.

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18 hours ago, Lyianx said:

I hate this ship. Hated it from the moment i saw it in the movie just because of what it represented. This ship should not have a primary weapon. It should only have a cannon upgrade slot for its weapon (as spec wise, the cannon was its ONLY armament) and its ability included a slight discount in points to canon upgrades (or priced lower overall with the paying for the canons in mind).

/steps off soap box

Apart from the HLC interaction, I take it as the 'primary' IS a cannon, just a bit of a standard rubbish one. And you can pay points to 'upgrade it' with the cannon cards.

Yes you still have your rubbish 'primary', but it's not like you'll often switch to that 'setting' lol 

HLC is like "oh yeah we slapped this big cannon on, but it won't work with the droid brain so it's stuck..."

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13 hours ago, Hiemfire said:

I think the AI is their gunner. I could be wrong but I doubt it has a gunner slot.

You're not wrong, but i wouldnt put it past FFG to add a gunner slot just for the sake of it, even tho it doesnt make sense from a canon (story) perspective, much like it having a primary weapon AND a cannon weapon.


 

17 hours ago, JBFancourt said:

The reinforce is interesting 

Yeah this makes no sense. Reinforce is a shield mechanic (in the sw universe).. and this ship has no shields. What is it reinforcing? You cant reinforce a hull at will in the middle of flight so this doesnt make sense.
 

5 hours ago, InterceptorMad said:

Yes you still have your rubbish 'primary', but it's not like you'll often switch to that 'setting' lol 

I wish this had the something like the Old Outrider title ability. Where you have the base 2 gun, but if you put a cannon on the ship, THAT becomes your primary instead. I reeally dont like the ship having the option to use either the base or the cannon at will.

 

 

5 hours ago, InterceptorMad said:

HLC is like "oh yeah we slapped this big cannon on, but it won't work with the droid brain so it's stuck..."

Its not that it wouldnt work with the droid brain, its that its too big to attach it on the rotating mount any more than you can attach it to a Turret. Thats why the HLC doesnt have a 90 either. It cant be on a gimbal. Its just too big for such small ships.

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16 minutes ago, Lyianx said:

Yeah this makes no sense. Reinforce is a shield mechanic (in the sw universe).. and this ship has no shields. What is it reinforcing? You cant reinforce a hull at will in the middle of flight so this doesnt make sense.

latest?cb=20190618044030

Really simple.

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As Hiemfire pointed out it's already possible to get a ship with zero shields and reinforce by putting Angled Deflectors on a ship with a native 1 shield. What would that ship be Reinforcing? Just an on-command shield that isn't strong enough to block weapons unless it gets additional energy.

I don't know about "really simple" but I think we can assume the the Brute has weak environment shields like moist TIE variants intended to deflect ballistic particles and cosmic radiation common in space. In this application they might have looked at the oversize reactor they put in for the cannons and added the ability to divert extra power to those weak shields to temporarily rise to a level that can block some weapons grade energy.

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6 minutes ago, nitrobenz said:

As Hiemfire pointed out it's already possible to get a ship with zero shields and reinforce by putting Angled Deflectors on a ship with a native 1 shield. What would that ship be Reinforcing? Just an on-command shield that isn't strong enough to block weapons unless it gets additional energy.

I don't know about "really simple" but I think we can assume the the Brute has weak environment shields like moist TIE variants intended to deflect ballistic particles and cosmic radiation common in space. In this application they might have looked at the oversize reactor they put in for the cannons and added the ability to divert extra power to those weak shields to temporarily rise to a level that can block some weapons grade energy.

The "Simple Really" from me is that walking a ship with baseline Reinforce to an Angled Deflector less equiv would result in +1 shield charge on the ship. In other words, the TIE/Rb has a shield but it isn't an omnidirectional one like we're used to seeing (as you basically outline). Admittedly the "simple" part is really dependent on personal perspective. :) 

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4 hours ago, Lyianx said:

Yeah this makes no sense. Reinforce is a shield mechanic (in the sw universe).. and this ship has no shields. What is it reinforcing? You cant reinforce a hull at will in the middle of flight so this doesnt make sense.

It’s reinforcing it’s ONE SHIELD LYIANX!! Leave poor Brutey alone!
latest?cb=20190618044030

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On 8/4/2020 at 11:58 AM, Lyianx said:

I hate this ship. Hated it from the moment i saw it in the movie just because of what it represented. This ship should not have a primary weapon. It should only have a cannon upgrade slot for its weapon (as spec wise, the cannon was its ONLY armament) and its ability included a slight discount in points to canon upgrades (or priced lower overall with the paying for the canons in mind).

/steps off soap box

this isnt really how any ship anywhere in xwing is designed

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On 8/4/2020 at 10:58 AM, Lyianx said:

Hated it from the moment i saw it in the movie just because of what it represented. This ship should not have a primary weapon. It should only have a cannon upgrade slot for its weapon (as spec wise, the cannon was its ONLY armament) and its ability included a slight discount in points to canon upgrades (or priced lower overall with the paying for the cannons in mind).

Having no primary is an interesting design space. Things like Outmaneuver would always be on. Making it a 0 die primary to combat that would have the odd effect of having a range 1 one die primary. I'm not opposed to a no primary ship that is discounted with pricing consideration of adding on secondary weapons, but it would need to be run through the ringer to find out what wacky interactions it would cause.

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On 8/4/2020 at 6:00 PM, JBFancourt said:

The reinforce is interesting 

I agree that it definitely breaks the theme of the ship as was posted above, it has no shields, unless they are strapping on more armor plating in the middle of combat :)

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On 8/5/2020 at 1:06 PM, InterceptorMad said:

The card fan we see doesn't have a gunner card, so I doubt that it will have a gunner slot. Just as the fan doesn't have any missiles or bombs and so I don't think the second config adds a gunner or missile slot. 

Actually if the Wiki is anything to go by, it states...

Crew

  • 1 pilot[1]
  • Optional gunner[2]

 

So it's possible it could have a gunner slot i guess.

Also.

On 8/5/2020 at 1:07 PM, Hiemfire said:

latest?cb=20190618044030

Really simple.

Its not though. Deflectors, which the brute doesn't have. That upgrade required there to be deflector shield system in the first place. A ship with 1 360 shield diverts its entire shield power into angling it to the front or the rear, leaving the other end completely shielded. I get its kind of hard to visualize but i see it clearly due to the X-wing games.

1993xwing.jpg

So in this pic, the ship has high 360 shielding (think of it as a shield upgrade). They can divert some of their rear shielding to the front, but the rear will still have some power in its shielding.

What Angled Deflectors does, is effectively this..


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leaving a ship with 1 shield completely exposed on the non-reinforced side. As i said.. its routing of shield power.. which the Brute doesnt have any to route.

22 hours ago, JBFancourt said:

It’s reinforcing it’s ONE SHIELD LYIANX!! Leave poor Brutey alone!
 

No.. the brute sucks lol. There were things written (which I wont pretend is canon) after the movie came out (and this ship was shown off) that imperial commanders didnt want this ship, and pilots didnt want to fly it. But were forced to because "thats what the empire gave them' and was only really used in peace keeping and light patrol, because it wasnt very capable of doing much else.

And thats putting aside the writers just stuffed it into the movie simply so they could have a new tie variant to have merchandise for. Its one when when time has past in a liner fashion.. you expect a faction to develop/improve vehicle design. The Tie Bomber made (some) sense for the role it was introduced doing in Empire. The Tie Interceptor made sense as a technological progression of the Tie Fighter and given how much time had past since the Tie Fighter was shown.

The Bute however, makes little to no sense given the time line. Putting aside the technical reasons why we 'dont see it in later (timeline wise) movies, if it was so good, you'd think it would be helping to defend BOTH death stars. Or chasing the Falcon though an asteroid field (apparent child's play given it chased it though an asteroid 'field' near a gravity well).

Basically, the ship exists for dumb reasons and there is a FAR better ship that fills its roll in a far better way.. But is neglected by screen writes because "it doesnt look like a Tie". And thats the Starwing/Gunboat.

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