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KingmanHighborn

My thoughts on the points update.

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On 8/2/2020 at 11:29 AM, Stay OT Leader said:

You have way too much spare time on your hands.  Maybe you should take up needlework or crafting?

....

Says the guy who spends who knows how much time thinking up and writing lengthy blog posts about the exact same tabletop game.

 

Didn't you use your X-Wing platform to instead review the Star Wars films only a couple of weeks back? Is that not the very definition of 'spare time'? You had so much of it on your hands that you couldn't even fill it talking about the game that's supposed to be the subject of your blog.

 

I've said it elsewhere, but seriously the lengths you go to to target anyone who commits the cardinal sin of saying something you happen to disagree with are truly astonishing. 

 

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On 8/1/2020 at 3:05 AM, KingmanHighborn said:

Auzituck went down. This is good. I have a friend that loves to run 4. But even then I think this might make me break out my one again.

I both think this is good and bad. Might be some 1st edition hangover, but I worry about them becoming good. Named pilots going down, get a thumbs up though. Lowhhrick is still fantastically overpriced though.

On 8/1/2020 at 3:05 AM, KingmanHighborn said:

K-Wing still has no sensor, but heck it's almost as cheap as a Y-wing for most builds. Still not crazy about it.

Just say no to trajectory simulator K-Wings.

On 8/1/2020 at 3:05 AM, KingmanHighborn said:

YT-1300... I'm REALLY surprised there was a price drop here.

I'm there, too. Especially Han and Leia. Not mad about it, just surprised.

On 8/1/2020 at 3:05 AM, KingmanHighborn said:

Sheathipede is back in hyperspace... why? and Why only two pilots? Nice they got a drop but pfft... oh well.

It's a curated format. Adds some spice.

On 8/1/2020 at 3:05 AM, KingmanHighborn said:

Rebel Tie ... good to see some points drop, but it's not really enough. Rex needs a talent, or something... otherwise he's only useful if there's an I6-5 with Swarm Tactics to babysit the vet.

Rex need Snap Shot to be useful, otherwise, he needs a further drop in price. Agreed.

On 8/1/2020 at 3:05 AM, KingmanHighborn said:

YT-2400... still needs to be cheaper. But this is a start. Still say it should have dropped 20 points across the board. I'm not... thrilled but I might try it now.

I'm with others. Lets keep making baby steps.

On 8/1/2020 at 3:05 AM, KingmanHighborn said:

I am miffed though that Moldy Crow and Outrider didn't come down. They should be a heck of a sight cheaper. Like 9 and 7 respectfully. I don't see why these are so prohibitively expensive.

Outrider should drop some, again, baby steps. The Crow has earned it's ire, but could stand to drop to 15 points. 9 would be criminally cheap. Palob and Torkil are salivating for it, and, well, the other are too.

On 8/1/2020 at 3:05 AM, KingmanHighborn said:

Alpha-Class going down in points is excellent. 

I continually worry that someone is going to break their code and see the Matrix on these guys. The Birminghams Barons got it with Hatchetman, but the others are on the edge of glory.

On 8/1/2020 at 3:05 AM, KingmanHighborn said:

Lambda... Jendon going UP is less so... BUUUUT I get that. He's the best Lamb pilot for a good reason.

Yeah, that my fault and the Baron's fault. Inquisitors and Hatchetman found how to abuse Jendon.

On 8/1/2020 at 3:05 AM, KingmanHighborn said:

Tie Aggressor, Ohhh you lowered the points on the named pilots... wow... *sarcasm* Seriously this ship would be USEFUL if you STOPPED SCREWING WITH ALL THE TOOLS IT NEEDS! Seriously WHY did you UP VTG on these guys!? WHY!? 

VTG can be too good on other small bases. Give Aggressors a cheap missile turret that uses both slots, that way they can have an upgrade that no one else can take, that won't be fiddled with for the consideration of other chassis.

On 8/1/2020 at 3:05 AM, KingmanHighborn said:

Tie Defender, named pilots came down. Still criminal that the I1 isn't 63 points.

This is a biiiiiiiig NO. That gives you 74 points for an ace or a hefty amount of support.

On 8/1/2020 at 3:05 AM, KingmanHighborn said:

Tie Interceptor, Soontir goes up... but not in HS while all the other Interceptors get into the pool. That's messed up. 

That's fantastic. Soontir was almost exclusively the only pilot taken. Let the other boys play for a change. Adds spice to hyperspace. Turr is still overpriced.

On 8/1/2020 at 3:05 AM, KingmanHighborn said:

Tie Phantom, JESUS why up Whisper so much? I get that she's good but jeez. 

Because she is that good.

On 8/1/2020 at 3:05 AM, KingmanHighborn said:

Tie Striker, I saw those points changes coming. I4s should not be priced higher than I5s

Honestly, I think Countdown and Pure Sabacc are still better than Duchess. Whether I'm flying as or against Duchess, he goes down in one round of firing.

On 8/1/2020 at 3:05 AM, KingmanHighborn said:

Aggressor going down! YEAH BABY! IGs are even better! Give me Elusive, Contraband, and FCS and it's a fun time with the letters A and D.

I'm honestly super excited about this. I've been flying IGs lately, and it has been the most fun list I've played in awhile.

On 8/1/2020 at 3:05 AM, KingmanHighborn said:

Y-Wing, no changes, but it's still bogus Drea is more expensive than Kavil. Also VTG going up is BOGUS!!!!!! Just had to say it.

Nope. I'll give that Drea may be overcosted now that VTG went up, but she still has more worth than Kavil, and that isn't a diss on Kavil. She's just that good.

On 8/1/2020 at 3:05 AM, KingmanHighborn said:

YT-1300, ohhhh it's cheap... not great but hey an I6 under 50points... can't complain. Been a while since I flew it. But why not make all the pilots HS legal?

I'm still not tempted, but maybe it's good? If anything, you barely get any points for killing it which has it's own worth.

On 8/1/2020 at 3:05 AM, KingmanHighborn said:

Firespray, Boba went up... I mean I get it, but couldn't this be his HS points and leave his points alone for Extended? 

Separating Hyperspace points and Extended points seems unnecessarily complicated and as the developers said, quite a bit of work for them. 

On 8/1/2020 at 3:05 AM, KingmanHighborn said:

HWK-290, oh look two pilots went down... did Moldy Crow go down for scum... nope. Still trash.

Torkil and Palob earned their prices, but Palob is less useful with calcs and force commonplace on the board. He should go down a hair, and as before, the title should drop by 3.

On 8/1/2020 at 3:05 AM, KingmanHighborn said:

Quadjumper went down but it's weird that Sarco and Unkar at the same cost as the Gunrunner... makes no sense. I'll take it though.

It makes sense because I1 on a Quadjumper is better than I2. The Quad's role is tractoring and setting up blocks. Both of those are easier at I1. Especially with everybody's generics hitting the board because of the cheapness.

On 8/1/2020 at 3:05 AM, KingmanHighborn said:

Not sure why Moralo is getting a kick in the coconuts though. 

Me either.

On 8/1/2020 at 3:05 AM, KingmanHighborn said:

Z-95, WHY. IS. THE. ONE. NON. HS. LEGAL. SHIP. THE. FREAKING. I1. CANNON. FODDER?

I'm with you on this. And Kaato and N'dru need minor drops. They have limited to non-useful abilities.

On 8/1/2020 at 3:05 AM, KingmanHighborn said:

Bossk gunner goes down... okay... 

Could go down more, honestly. Nothing in the faction has a gunner slot, a strong primary, and dial for mitigating the stress. The Firespary can get a gunner, but at the cost of Bossk and Marauder, you'd just take Maul.

On 8/1/2020 at 3:05 AM, KingmanHighborn said:

Slave 1 goes up... 5 is a bit much but everyone called it. Wonder if we'll see Marauder again?

5 is bare minimum for Boba. Initiative scaled pricing would have been better since it loses worth the lower your initiative. Marauder dropping ahair would be nice.

On 8/1/2020 at 3:05 AM, KingmanHighborn said:

Arc-170, one pilot goes down... and it's the one I like, that no one else does... okay.

It's not that we don't like him, he just has blank ability most of the game. Like Resistance Han.

On 8/1/2020 at 3:05 AM, KingmanHighborn said:

Y-wing, lots of points drops is good, makes the unfair sting of VTG going up hurt less. 

Broadside should have gone up and Matchstick should have dropped a little. 

On 8/1/2020 at 3:05 AM, KingmanHighborn said:

N-1, Why did Ric go up?

Cheap TIE Defender in the game. That's a bit of hyperbole, but for the amount of effort you need to put into him to destroy him, 42 points was little reward. He is still cheaper than Thane Kyrell, Garven Dreis, Kullbee Sperado, and Biggs Darklighter, despite being leagues better than them.

On 8/1/2020 at 3:05 AM, KingmanHighborn said:

V-19, Very nice to see more stuff go down besides the generic but again it's BS that the GST is not HS legal. Jeez FFG. Make it all or nothing PLEASE?

GST was the only pilot taken before. Again, this encourages taking other pilots who are now in the range of usable price points.

On 8/1/2020 at 3:05 AM, KingmanHighborn said:

R4-P44 could be 1, it's way too tricky to be useful all the time.

R4-P, I like that astromech, so I'll certainly take it at 2 points

At 1 point it seems autoinclude, making them both 2 would be fine.

On 8/1/2020 at 3:05 AM, KingmanHighborn said:

Belbullab, glad they put it back in HS, not a Sear user, but again he should be in there too for people that do like him.

Again, Sear is out to encourage using other pilots.

On 8/1/2020 at 3:05 AM, KingmanHighborn said:

Vulture, surprised the generics went up. I thought they'd just target discords.

It's oddly what the droid swarms players asked for. Struts or Discords could have gone up, but they regularly said they'd rather the chassis go up rather than the upgrades.

On 8/1/2020 at 3:05 AM, KingmanHighborn said:

Kraken and TA-175, well I mean they are the only useful relays... but I feel like they are going up just to force people to try the other ones. 

Could have been to encourage using others, but they are 11 points of good. Could have gone to or stayed at 10, though.

On 8/1/2020 at 3:05 AM, KingmanHighborn said:

MG-100, all of them went down, that's good. I really want to use one. Stupid that it's not HS legal though. Staple a 7 point VTG to it all day though. 

Hasn't been released in 2nd Edition yet, which is why it's not in Hyper. Same for the Falcon.

On 8/1/2020 at 3:05 AM, KingmanHighborn said:

Ferrosphere Paint went down, still I doubt I'll see anyone use it. 

Yeah, it still needs to be cheaper. Adv Optics is better for the same price. Also, the counter play is simply to take a focus or calc. That strategy works for 90%+ of ships.

On 8/1/2020 at 3:05 AM, KingmanHighborn said:

TIE S/F, it's bogus that Quickdraw isn't in HS, and went up... why? LeHuse went down? WHY? 

QD going up is silly. Lehuse dropping 1 is fine, but I don't understand why it happened either.

On 8/1/2020 at 3:05 AM, KingmanHighborn said:

Silencer, Hooray you made the I1 cheaper, would it have killed you to make the I4 generic 50-2ish? 

56 is an odd price point. But, it saw use and a few top tables, so it likely didn't see drops for that reason.

On 8/1/2020 at 3:05 AM, KingmanHighborn said:

Upsilon, Yeah... still over nerfed... cause Doormouse is still 10-15 points over costed. Wish this thing would go back to it's launch price.

HTD is still 10 points which is STUPID! God I wish they'd drop the points on this, 5? IS 5 too much to ask!?!?!

Nope. It would be mitigated now by the droid swarm, but it was a fundamentally un-fun list to fly or fly against. That's is why it is still prevented. Errate HSTD to a single pip limited, then we can talk about Dormitz dropping.

On 8/1/2020 at 3:05 AM, KingmanHighborn said:

Agile Gunner, Meh. Just. Meh.

Yeah. Make it even cheaper and maybe someone will use it eventually.

On 8/1/2020 at 3:05 AM, KingmanHighborn said:

VTG, This is the biggest sin in all of the game. This upgrade WAS FINE when it was priced at LAUNCH. Stop raising it! Stop it! Think of the poor Tie Aggressor. Look in it's puppy dog eyes as another one has to be put down in the shelter, because you were too greedy to feed it some GOOD UPGRADES! SERIOUSLY! Barrage Rockets, VTG, TURRETS!? LOWER THEM ALL! Or at least lower them for just the Tie Aggressor... and rebel and scum Y-wings.... but still. 

Good to see medium and big ships get a fair break. But Seriously... the Tie Aggressor… Why do you hate it FFG? What did it do to you? Did it ruin someone's marriage or something? *sigh*

Ick. Barrage Rockets and VTG down? I see why you got a visceral reaction from several of the forum goers. VTG actually went down on everything but the small base. Fix the Aggressor some other way, as powering up every other chassis that can take these upgrades would just put the Aggressor in the corner still.

On 8/1/2020 at 3:05 AM, KingmanHighborn said:

Cluster Missiles, Ion Missiles, and Proton Rockets, all going down is good. All missiles and torps need to come down. So this is a start. 

Cautiously agree. Proton Torps are probably costed in the right range.

On 8/1/2020 at 3:05 AM, KingmanHighborn said:

Conner Nets and Ion Bombs, good to see them come down a bit. I think the single use, unrecoverable mines though need to come down more. Like Cluster Mines at 4 or something. Electro-Proton Bomb is still a bad joke. 

Cluster Mines only get 1 charge, right? I wouldn't say drop to 4, but dropping to the price of Prox's seems right. EPB is a joke.

On 8/1/2020 at 3:05 AM, KingmanHighborn said:

Passive Sensors, I use it primarily on cheap generics so it's good it's getting a break there. Not sure other than Vader's shenanigans why it'd go up on the I5s and I6s. At those Initiatives you're taking FCS. 

Vader took Passive fairly often, and Echo and Whisper took it as a better version of Targeting Computer.

On 8/1/2020 at 3:05 AM, KingmanHighborn said:

Crack Shot, don't get it, it's a one use thing, and requires a good bit of positioning to work. Predator is much better. And I like Marksmanship more as a preference... so... whatever. 

Crack Shot was the number 1 taken upgrade at Worlds 2019. It is super good, and statistically better than Predator until you like up 5-ish shots with Predator.

On 8/1/2020 at 3:05 AM, KingmanHighborn said:

Saturation Salvo, good to see it come down. I want to use it someday.

We can only hope. I 'm not certain why they think it worth so much.

On 8/1/2020 at 3:05 AM, KingmanHighborn said:

Dorsal Turret, yeah... 2 points is fair, don't change it again. Now make Ion 3 and we're good. 

Dorsal, yes. Ion, no. The developers said that we don't want good ion control, and they are correct. Ion Broadside is a pain at 41 points. Please don't make him cheaper. Also, at 2 point, no one would ever take Dorsal as Ion reliably puts more damage through.

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Posted (edited)

 

4 hours ago, 5050Saint said:

I both think this is good and bad. Might be some 1st edition hangover, but I worry about them becoming good.

Wulff is dumb fun. Still waiting for my Juking Wulff/Saw/Jyn/2xPerCops list to be decent and it's starting to get there (in my imagination fantasy world). Third man is always the trickiest bit but snap/juke Jake fits now and still leaves room for Leia...

4 hours ago, 5050Saint said:

I'm there, too. Especially Han and Leia. Not mad about it, just surprised.

Gets the medal for most over-buffed ship. Han has been underpriced all along and he just gets buff after buff after buff, just like the Delta Defender. Baseless buffs on things that are actually doing quite well when people actually care to fly them. Most just don't though.

 

4 hours ago, 5050Saint said:

Lets keep making baby steps.

Dash could be legit good now. I think he's around the right price. The others could probably do with a little bit of a drop but I'm worried about giving Dash room for too many toys. I've always been an advocate for the YT-2400 and I think it's close to having its moment now. Add AP-5 and a solid wingman or two blockers and you really have something.

4 hours ago, 5050Saint said:

Outrider should drop some, again, baby steps. The Crow has earned it's ire, but could stand to drop to 15 points. 9 would be criminally cheap. Palob and Torkil are salivating for it, and, well, the other are too.

Well, maybe... I'm not a fan of the outrider title. It's probably overpriced but it fosters the NPE playstyle people dislike on Dash. He's not too abusive on his own and I'd almost rather keep him that way. That said, 2 points off or so probably wouldn't hurt, maybe? Moldy Crow is also not that bad. It's very powerful but it dies way too easily to get much reliable mileage out of. Its main problem is it doesn't work as a list lynchpin that it wants to be. Don't want to see it below 12, though 18 is a bit much...

4 hours ago, 5050Saint said:

This is a biiiiiiiig NO. That gives you 74 points for an ace or a hefty amount of support.

Yeah lol NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER! 69 was already okay. 67 is a bit low. The named ones still need teensy drops but they're getting pretty close too. Also like Duchess, Rexler should be the most expensive pilot. His new ability is so much better than his 1.0 version, and now that Ryad got nerfed and Vessery has less room for locking wingmen, Rex is just the best.

Well, second after the obscenely good Delta Defender.

4 hours ago, 5050Saint said:

That's fantastic. Soontir was almost exclusively the only pilot taken. Let the other boys play for a change. Adds spice to hyperspace. Turr is still overpriced.

SAME TEAM. There are other TIE Interceptors out there in the world. Use them. Alpha-Alpha-Delta-Delta might actually be okay. People usually make the mistake of killing the Interceptors first and then have to deal with endgame token-stackers. It's a win-win either way really

4 hours ago, 5050Saint said:

I'm still not tempted, but maybe it's good? If anything, you barely get any points for killing it which has it's own worth.

Hotshot gunner or Greedo for the wimpy shots, Qi'ra's crazy cheap to make better shots more likely. Lando title punishes stress. Honestly I think the YT-1300 plus two IGs could actually take some trophies.

Edited by ClassicalMoser

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Posted (edited)

 

4 hours ago, 5050Saint said:

Me either.

Moralo's toys and friends got buffed. Gotta watch out for too much all at once as it can have a cascading effect. He might be okay to good now.

4 hours ago, 5050Saint said:

Could go down more, honestly. Nothing in the faction has a gunner slot, a strong primary, and dial for mitigating the stress. The Firespary can get a gunner, but at the cost of Bossk and Marauder, you'd just take Maul.

R4 Kavil. Just add Expert Handling. Except Han is strictly better. Edit: Wait it's just Primary? Forget it.

4 hours ago, 5050Saint said:

Cheap TIE Defender in the game. That's a bit of hyperbole, but for the amount of effort you need to put into him to destroy him, 42 points was little reward. He is still cheaper than Thane Kyrell, Garven Dreis, Kullbee Sperado, and Biggs Darklighter, despite being leagues better than them.

R4 Kullbee still a better ace than any A-Wing. Press F to pay respects.

 

4 hours ago, 5050Saint said:

It's oddly what the droid swarms players asked for. Struts or Discords could have gone up, but they regularly said they'd rather the chassis go up rather than the upgrades.

Again what's with the I3 tax on Vultures? 2 points each (that's 10%) for I3? Doesn't that just make you a worse blocker? 1 point I get but 2 is dumb, especially with no talents. But still free struts would be better. Baked-in abilities are easier to remember and figure for; mixed swarms are annoying.

4 hours ago, 5050Saint said:

Make it even cheaper and maybe someone will use it eventually.

At 5 points, Lighter Dash builds (AKA not-Bistan builds) probably kind of like it since he's so action-starved. Some support ships might like it to boost their abilities. JM5Ks probably consider it now.

4 hours ago, 5050Saint said:

Ick. Barrage Rockets and VTG down? I see why you got a visceral reaction from several of the forum goers.

Yeah haha they've never been at more accurate prices before. IDK maybe VTG should be 10/8/6 instead of 12/9/7 but at least it's closer than before. Barrage is perfect; don't touch it. You don't want to see what happens to your favorite ships when you do.

4 hours ago, 5050Saint said:

We can only hope. I 'm not certain why they think it worth so much.

Might be worth it at 2 points. That is, if we weren't already paying 3 for the talent slot so it's effectively 5 even then... How could this possibly be worth more than Juke? Saturation/Barrage Kestal would be awesome, but guess what? It doesn't even work because the aggressor doesn't have reload! Is this seriously only for TIE Bombers, Star Wings, and Y-Wings? I guess an Andrasta Krassis could take it but what do you even do with that? Make a cluster or concussion missile hit just a teensy bit harder? Try to land an Ion? Suuuuuper not worth the title it requires. I just don't get it at all.

Edited by ClassicalMoser

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All that text and nobody has mentioned the RZ-1 A-Wing getting no love?  I'm not saying that the RZ-2 should have gone up, (I'm also not, not saying that) but if the RZ-2 is costed correctly, the poor RZ-1 is way too expensive.

Also dropping the generic Nantexi by 8 points was pretty heinous.  Look at an autoblaster Cartel Spacer for 28 points.  And they aren't terrible right?  Seem like a pretty solid ship.  Now look at a Stalgasin Hive Guard for 29.  Or bump up to I4 for 30 points.  That's a lot of ship for 30 stinking points.  Makes the Rebel A-wings look even worse too.

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11 minutes ago, gamblertuba said:

All that text and nobody has mentioned the RZ-1 A-Wing getting no love?  I'm not saying that the RZ-2 should have gone up, (I'm also not, not saying that) but if the RZ-2 is costed correctly, the poor RZ-1 is way too expensive.

Also dropping the generic Nantexi by 8 points was pretty heinous.  Look at an autoblaster Cartel Spacer for 28 points.  And they aren't terrible right?  Seem like a pretty solid ship.  Now look at a Stalgasin Hive Guard for 29.  Or bump up to I4 for 30 points.  That's a lot of ship for 30 stinking points.  Makes the Rebel A-wings look even worse too.

On the other hand, in order to reposition, a nantex has to lose an entire point of agility.

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Posted (edited)
15 hours ago, 5050Saint said:

The developers said that we don't want good ion control, and they are correct

I don't think they are, and I think they are edging that back with some of the changes.

The problem with historical ion control lists is they were based off double tapping Y-wings for the most part, and the Ion Turret is a really bad implementation of a control mechanic in a lot of ways because its a bit too easy to apply repeatedly, in a way that doesn't exactly resemble control. Ion Missiles were already on the edge of not just viability, but being quite good, and lack a lot of negative aspects of the ion turret in that you can't effortlessly keep a large amount of them on uptime with a target that just got ion'd. At 3 points, I suspect they will start sneaking into lists on 2 attack dice filler ships because they give them some non-damage pushing teeth on turns where they are just a bit too free and open. On top of that, on small bases, ions are basically a way to get a gun that does 1 damage more consistently and increasing arc coverage, rather than a 'control weapon.' A healthy control archetype wants to limit the good options an opponent has, but can't actually tell them 'you don't get to play' which is sorta what ion turret spam did.

Ion missiles and torps, if they were good, would enable a fair control list that do control shenanigans without crushing your opponent's soul, because you need to telegraph the threat with a TL, can't easily follow up with a second on a flyby, and won't generally be constantly ioning ships but instead creating windows where your opponent loses options, which is a healthy control archetype compared to a complete 'jail' archetype like ion turrets were, which is why almost every 'telepgrahped payload' ion upgrade is creeping down. Your ace being inside a target lock and now having to try to avoid losing control from an ion missile on a critical turn is kinda fun and should be a viable list archetype, someone constantly rotating and focusing turrets for flybys was not and should not.

TL;DR: Ion turrets taught people that control is 'inherently bad' when in reality it more is bad when it gets too over-saturated in both number of times taken and how often it can be applied, and control is more fun as a suspense mechanic that creates a lot of tension and unusually high costs to misplays in small windows of play.

Edited by dezzmont

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8 hours ago, dezzmont said:

the Ion Turret is a really bad implementation of a control mechanic in a lot of ways because its a bit too easy to apply repeatedly

This is the key problem.

One possible solution would be to make ion tokens double sided. When you perform the ion manoeuvre all your tokens get flipped, and while they are flipped you cannot gain additional ion tokens. All flipped tokens are then removed during the end phase.

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Posted (edited)
15 minutes ago, DexterOnone said:

This is the key problem.

One possible solution would be to make ion tokens double sided. When you perform the ion manoeuvre all your tokens get flipped, and while they are flipped you cannot gain additional ion tokens. All flipped tokens are then removed during the end phase.

It is a bit late for that, and I don't even think 'double ion' is too bad as long as the setup is dangerous enough to justify how devistating it is.

After all, if your not spamming a thousand cuts ion list with stuff like Y-wings, the ionized ship is actually probably going to die (Unless its a large or something) the turn after it is ioned UNLESS the ship's teammates can make it too dangerous for your list to 'all in' the ion'd ship. Without follow up, landing an Ion doesn't... do much, and if your follow up is to just take more target locks and fire more ion missiles or torps into the ship with enough ships to ensure it lands, your probably out of Ions at that point anyway and also probably lost.

Even vs a relatively low damage output list like aces, you can't safely show your butt to both enemy aces to pounce without serious cost or without engaging cleverly, unless your fighting something like a dummy thick Ion torp Y-wing list and manage to land in multiple arcs so they can get you on the follow up turn. In which case... your aces, how the heck did you let that happen?

I just think that 'hard control turrets' are a bad idea, because the point of control is to basically say 'don't do this thing you want to do' and forcing your opponent to hold off on it while they find a way to do the thing they REALLY wanna do. Ion turrets have a problem where they don't really allow you to find the opening to do the thing you want to do. Sure, facing down a wall of ion torps or missiles facing you that make it hard to find a gap to engage is spooky, but its doable, and the lists that are most negatively affected by control (aces) are also the best suited for cracking that nut. There isn't much you can do to stop spammed turrets from hitting and locking you down. One of the archtypical weaknesses of control in most games is that, paradoxically, they are putting your opponent in the driver's seat, because your playing reactively and letting them make the mistakes and your skill is more trying to cover your own weaknesses and make any mistakes that occur as devastating as can be, but Ion turrets never do that.

In addition to the fundamental problems of a control turret, the ion turret also is a weird version of control in that its also the high value direct damage option. The entire reason they are so meta as the turret most ships that want a turret take is they are just a consistent 1 damage and possible ioning that has extremely good arc coverage and fires out the side, rather than the front, which is usually better to do anyway. The Dorsal Turret is just so non-threatening vs many ships despite having a theoretically higher damage cap simply because it misses way too often, so despite being a 'control' tool the fact of the matter is the ion does more raw damage than the dorsal in almost every situation.

I think the fix for ion turrets is probably more just to push them up, create a new 3 attack 1 max damage turret with a GREATLY reduced control effect for extra damage on top, and call it a day and Dash ion turrets. Bombs and lock on mechanics are where control 'should' live, along with bumps or pseudo-bumps like the new A-wing card, which are all much more interactive

Edited by dezzmont

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12 hours ago, gamblertuba said:

All that text and nobody has mentioned the RZ-1 A-Wing getting no love?  I'm not saying that the RZ-2 should have gone up, (I'm also not, not saying that) but if the RZ-2 is costed correctly, the poor RZ-1 is way too expensive.

Also dropping the generic Nantexi by 8 points was pretty heinous.  Look at an autoblaster Cartel Spacer for 28 points.  And they aren't terrible right?  Seem like a pretty solid ship.  Now look at a Stalgasin Hive Guard for 29.  Or bump up to I4 for 30 points.  That's a lot of ship for 30 stinking points.  Makes the Rebel A-wings look even worse too.

I've said it in other threads.  28 points for a Baron of the Empire is a massive slap in the face of the 32 point Green RZ-1 and the 29 point Phoenix.  Nearly-identical ships, with prices that aren't even close.  Phoenix and Green should be 27/29.

Of course, Jake and Arvel are solid.  They've got really strong pilot abilities, and still make it work.  With hopefully some new pilots on the horizon (Rebel Squadron Pack with A-Wings seems likely), that'll open up some new options.

But the generic pricing of RZ-1s is SO BAD.

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Posted (edited)
22 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

Of course, Jake and Arvel are solid.  They've got really strong pilot abilities, and still make it work.  With hopefully some new pilots on the horizon (Rebel Squadron Pack with A-Wings seems likely), that'll open up some new options.

Jake, yes, simply by virtue of being one of the better support ships in the game who basically can go on almost any list.

Arvel, however, is an extremely meta dependent ship.

Arvel is just an A wing+, and he lives or dies on if an A-wings stats are 'worth it' in a current meta as a filler ship. If 2 dice single modded or unmodded attacks are viable damage increases, Arvel does ok. He is great at bullying larges. But if your up against a lot of defensively strong ships (especially ones that get defensive resources for free, like pretty much all of the current meta lists) he kinda sucks. Its why he saw almost no play in the current meta: Boba and Sep Swarms were so absurdly dominant and he just doesn't do anything vs them. Those lists legitimatley do not care about 2 dice single modded ships.

we do indeed have the 'Largepocalypse' Arvel will do his thing and bully the crap out of Han and Dash. If not, and the sep swarms or Boba and friends aren't dislodged, he will probably continue to see no play, because your either taking Jake first and don't want to have two A-wings in case you go up against these lists, or you don't plan on having an A-wing at all. This is part of the A-wing's problem: It is so feast or famine on if it can even do anything.

In a way this aspect of Arvel is good. Arvel is a well designed tech ship that bullies low maneuverability ships that are badly affected by bumps and who have low defense dice. It is always great fun to see him absolutely trash a stacked Lambda twice his points. But tech ships only make sense when the meta is either what they are teching against, or if the meta is diverse and it isn't the end of the world when you go up against a list that isn't vulnerable to your tech. 

Edited by dezzmont

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1 hour ago, theBitterFig said:

I've said it in other threads.  28 points for a Baron of the Empire is a massive slap in the face of the 32 point Green RZ-1 and the 29 point Phoenix.  Nearly-identical ships, with prices that aren't even close.  Phoenix and Green should be 27/29.

Agreed. They are similar enough to justify similar pricing. The double talent slot is a consideration to make, but talents come with their own cost, so not a large consideration, especially with crack shot going up to 2.

I am curious how Starbird Slash is going to be priced. It looks decent but significantly better on RZ2's since they can drive over a ship with out turning around and still get a shot.

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Posted (edited)
On 8/3/2020 at 1:01 PM, GuacCousteau said:

....

Says the guy who spends who knows how much time thinking up and writing lengthy blog posts about the exact same tabletop game.

 

Do not underestimate that bloggers earn money and other material benefits if their blogs are successfull. So he could be on a different mindset

Edited by CapitanGuinea

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16 hours ago, theBitterFig said:

I've said it in other threads.  28 points for a Baron of the Empire is a massive slap in the face of the 32 point Green RZ-1 and the 29 point Phoenix.  Nearly-identical ships, with prices that aren't even close.  Phoenix and Green should be 27/29.

Of course, Jake and Arvel are solid.  They've got really strong pilot abilities, and still make it work.  With hopefully some new pilots on the horizon (Rebel Squadron Pack with A-Wings seems likely), that'll open up some new options.

But the generic pricing of RZ-1s is SO BAD.

In hindsight I should have mentioned that more. As I do agree the RZ-1 needs to come down to the Advanced v1's level. Maybe a title that let's it swivel the guns like the RZ-2 (IIRC they 'could' but it was super finicky and broke sometimes) They could certainly use an I5 on the platform as well. 

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6 hours ago, KingmanHighborn said:

Maybe a title that let's it swivel the guns like the RZ-2 (IIRC they 'could' but it was super finicky and broke sometimes)

This would almost surely be terrible.  I don't want to make all the bad ships into just clones of the good ones that people hate more than they deserve to be hated.

FFG just needs to make things cheaper.

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On 8/2/2020 at 8:29 PM, Stay OT Leader said:

You have way too much spare time on your hands.  Maybe you should take up needlework or crafting?

When you’re trying to be cool, but come off looking like more of a d***.
Forums are for discussion, not brow beating. I think many people have said they don’t agree with the OP without being nasty about it. Things like trip Defenders would be bad for the game IMO, people like Biophyiscal who are masters at Defender gameplay would smash in this kind of meta. 
Be better, try to be helpful, not a hindrance. I know I have had my fair share of bad posts, but I’m trying at least. 

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