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Petersaber

Standard-sized upgrade cards

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Posted (edited)

What? You don't get separate sizes for different cards. You have one size and print 20 Standard cards or 40 Mini cards per sheet.

2 hours ago, KAGE13 said:

The only reason I can see (which someone already mentioned) is they need the room for the new mechanics and rules.

https://i.imgur.com/GPEmJog.jpg

Edited by Petersaber

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I'm a little perplexed that people have such strong views (one way or another) about this relatively minor change to the game we love. 

The seven Stages of Grief

stages-of-cybersecurity-grief-copy.png

  1. Shock - What? FFG are going over to standard sized upgrades?
  2. Denial - They would never do this to us.
  3. Anger - What about the table space?
  4. Bargaining - Maybe I could get a refund for my 3d printed ship trays?
  5. Depression - Well that's it I'll just have to print my own out small sized.
  6. Testing - What's that? The card upgrade pack has all the errata changes and some new point adjustments. Hmmm...
  7. Acceptance - I'll probably just buy the upgrade pack... under protest you understand.

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Posted (edited)
13 minutes ago, Mad Cat said:
  1. Depression - Well that's it I'll just have to print my own out small sized.

Why is that depression? More like resourcefulness.

(and I already have enough orders for American mini CW and Wave 1-8 errata'd cards that I will be able to buy both CW starters with that cash and still have plenty leftover)

Edited by Petersaber

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12 hours ago, flatpackhamster said:

What's my point here?  The most common standard size of something is the cheapest to produce, because of economies of scale.  Playing card size is the most common size of small card.  It'll be the cheapest.

And the most common sheet size in offset printing is 70x100cm. Comparing copy paper with industrial paper sheets won't work.

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4 hours ago, spike2109 said:

And the most common sheet size in offset printing is 70x100cm. Comparing copy paper with industrial paper sheets won't work.

I wasn't comparing copy paper with industrial paper sheets, I was making a point about larger products sometimes being cheaper than smaller products because they're a 'standard' size. 

 

I may well be wrong about the justification for changing the card size.  There could be several reasons and I don't know any of them for sure. 

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Posted (edited)
21 minutes ago, flatpackhamster said:

I wasn't comparing copy paper with industrial paper sheets, I was making a point about larger products sometimes being cheaper than smaller products because they're a 'standard' size. 

 

I may well be wrong about the justification for changing the card size.  There could be several reasons and I don't know any of them for sure. 

Normal printers print everything (that you mass-produce) on one size of paper, and then just cut it into appropriately sized bits.  They don't use X4 paper for Standard and X5 paper for Mini, they use X3 for both (actual sizes unknown, this is just a comparison to A4, A5 and A3).

Edited by Petersaber

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On 7/31/2020 at 4:40 PM, Petersaber said:

I'd gladly pay a dollar or five more for good cards, and not crappy new ones.  

I’d rather each expansion is 5 dollars cheaper so my game can be enjoyed by more p(l)ayers not put off by pricing.

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28 minutes ago, TheCallum said:

I’d rather each expansion is 5 dollars cheaper so my game can be enjoyed by more p(l)ayers not put off by pricing.

Except it’s not $5 cheaper for the consumer.  If anything the cost went up a bit for us, the consumer.

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6 hours ago, spike2109 said:

Give me the price plz, I'm working in a printing company.

Wife used to work for a printer manufactorer* in the UK doing the sales admin for the continuous divison...trips to customers to see how they where put to use included book printers, newspapers, gift posters, etc etc

 

 

*just a little one.... called Canon 😛

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2 hours ago, TheCallum said:

I’d rather each expansion is 5 dollars cheaper so my game can be enjoyed by more p(l)ayers not put off by pricing.

It's a shame that prices went up, then.

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Posted (edited)
On 8/11/2020 at 1:25 PM, flatpackhamster said:

What's the cheapest paper size to buy?  A4, right?  A5 is half the size but 60% more expensive. 

Here's A3 paper - £8.39 per 500 sheets:

https://www.staples.co.uk/staples-a3-paper-ream-500-sheets/cbs/297904032.html?promoCode=&Effort_Code=WW&Find_Number=297904032&m=0&isSubscription=False

A5 paper - £4.82 per 500 sheets:

https://www.staples.co.uk/multi-purpose-paper/cbs/297932588.html?promoCode=&Effort_Code=WW&Find_Number=297932588&m=0&isSubscription=False

A4 paper - £3.00 per 500 sheets:

https://www.staples.co.uk/a4-copy-paper/cbs/297910580.html

 

What's my point here?  The most common standard size of something is the cheapest to produce, because of economies of scale.  Playing card size is the most common size of small card.  It'll be the cheapest.

 

If it saves them 10p per spaceship or squadron box, and they produce a million boxes, that's £100,000.   

 

No, you might not see the 'savings passed on', but you aren't entitled to see them passed on.

Ugh... is this really your argument?

(sigh)

Finished paper products sold to consumers are an apple and oranges comparisons to "industrial" paper supplies, which are used by the printing factories to make all sorts of cards.

Cards of differing sizes are not fed into a printer and printed individually.

As I explained earlier, the cards are printed and stamped from either a large cardboard sheet or a roll. Those cardboard sheets/rolls will be a standard size for industrial printing machines, therefore they'll cost the same, regardless of what size the cards are cut from them.

The finished cards are placed inside of product boxes, and the size of those boxes is dictated by the size of the plastic ship miniature. It doesn't matter if the cards are Mini-American, Standard size, or Tarot, they all fit into the boxes. It's not like by getting rid of tarot-size ship cards the product boxes will shrink, allowing more units to fit on a shipping pallet, which might increase efficiency for shipping and logistics.

Edited by Revan Reborn

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1 hour ago, Revan Reborn said:

The finished cards are placed inside of product boxes, and the size of those boxes is dictated by the size of the plastic ship miniature. 

And your point is? The cards that are easiest to handle and pit in the box are the cheapest? That would be a standard sized card. 

Its like you write so much you forget what you are writing. 

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Posted (edited)

Reavern, it's your supercilious tone and your attitude that nobody in the world is as clever as you that makes you so totally, unnecessarily objectionable.   I blocked your old account's posts, and I am now blocking your new one, because whatever value and interest you might bring with your posts, it's outweighed by the method of its delivery.

Rule 9 would do you no end of good.  Until you read and learn it though - blocked.

 

 

Edited by flatpackhamster

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2 hours ago, flatpackhamster said:

Reavern, it's your supercilious tone and your attitude that nobody in the world is as clever as you that makes you so totally, unnecessarily objectionable.

What are you talking about? It looks more like you just can't possibly argue your point further...

7 hours ago, Ginkapo said:

And your point is? The cards that are easiest to handle and pit in the box are the cheapest? That would be a standard sized card.

That'd be American Mini, actually.

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@Petersaber - its as much that the written tone comes across as condesending and insulting, and whilst people can put up with it for a time if you continue to see one poster putting everything in the same 'tone /manor' you switch off to what that person is saying...

I know a lttle bit about the subject that they are talking about and to be fair I dont particulary like the way Reavern put his point across...even if I do agree with it

 

As to American Mini being the easiest to handle... I'll have to disagree from a gamer point of view - not all gamers have good fine motor skills*  - and personally they are just a bit to small for me to pick up and move easily compared to the standard sized cards - there is a point where things get to small for quick and effeciant movement.   So whilst I like the small cards for the space they take up on the table I've been intrested in having the upgrade cards larger since I started this game (near release).   So who knows prehaps its customer feed back thats led to the change?

 

*over 10% of adults in the UK have various conditions that affect the motor skills, with wargaming having a higher percentage

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Posted (edited)
On 8/12/2020 at 4:08 AM, Petersaber said:

Normal printers print everything (that you mass-produce) on one size of paper, and then just cut it into appropriately sized bits.  They don't use X4 paper for Standard and X5 paper for Mini, they use X3 for both (actual sizes unknown, this is just a comparison to A4, A5 and A3).

I'm not sure if you're implying they'd cut, for example, tarot and mini off of one sheet (sorry if that wasn't your meaning). Custom die layouts to cut different size cards off of one sheet would be more expensive than doing separate sheets that will have one size each; additionally, uneven cutting increases the chances of something jamming or becoming misaligned.

On 8/13/2020 at 2:46 PM, Revan Reborn said:

Those cardboard sheets/rolls will be a standard size for industrial printing machines, therefore they'll cost the same, regardless of what size the cards are cut from them.

If tarot, standard, and mini are each printed separately (because they're fed into different die cutters) then you need to order in a certain ratio of X ship cards and Y upgrades (and for core sets or the Chimaera, also Z squadrons) in order to fill each box, but that could lead to ordering more of one than the other(s) than was needed. If everything is the same size (and fed into the same die cutter), then it's easier to order exactly how much you want.

Edit:

On 8/10/2020 at 5:28 PM, Revan Reborn said:

If it were true, FFG never would have used 3 different card sizes in the first place!

Perhaps it wasn't as big a deal when there was only one Core Set that required ordering all 3 types at they same time, but now there's the Core Set, Chimaera, and two Fleet Starters.

Edited by FreakinUnoriginal

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On 8/11/2020 at 11:11 AM, Mad Cat said:

Anger - What about the table space?

Acceptance - I'll probably just buy the upgrade pack... under protest you understand.

I do worry about the table space... but yes, I've pre-ordered even after saying I probably wouldn't. 😂

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