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Petersaber

Standard-sized upgrade cards

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Anyone know why they still printed the point costs on the cards if they are going to change them down the line?  They took point costs off the xwing cards, and I kind of figured they would follow the same model.

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yeahhh when I read the news about the new upgrade cards I wasn't happy about it. That means there's at least 60-70$ worth of battlefoams I use that's now worthless and I would have to replace them.

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2 hours ago, RovanW said:

Anyone know why they still printed the point costs on the cards if they are going to change them down the line?  They took point costs off the xwing cards, and I kind of figured they would follow the same model.

I'm guessing because they plan on fewer changes than xwing has.

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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, Green Knight said:

Relatedly: why the negativity?

Read OP and find out!

9 hours ago, Green Knight said:

Mismash? It removes the small cards. Well, except the damage deck. 

No, it does not. Old American Mini cards are still fully legal. You will end up seeing a mix of small and big upgrade cards on tables.

Edited by Petersaber

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6 hours ago, Revan Reborn said:

Your implication seems to be that positivity is the "acceptable" reaction to the Armada card size changes.

Furthermore, the subtext of your post callously shouts "Shut up and deal with it."

Everyone is entitled to their opinions. It's disrespectful of you to judge or comment on anyone for "negativity" as perceived by you.

News flash: Most people don't like change. It's human nature.

If FFG had left the ship and upgrade cards the same sizes, no one would've had any reaction, positive or negative.

In fact, many players would've been enthused about the Upgrade Card Collection because it will provide rare upgrade cards that were formerly exclusive to a single ship expansion. Many Armada players had been requesting an Armada Upgrade Card pack for that purpose (similar to the Legion Upgrade Card Pack).

However, FFG's choice to change the card sizes in Armada, beginning with the new Clone Wars ship expansions, paints the Upgrade Card Collection in a different light, which has understandably provoked mixed reactions from Armada players.

Ok, but in reality I think it's a meaningless change in format.

If it's a new edition, sure, but this?

X-2.0 at least has reoriented the cards, so you can put them half on top of each other.

But the card pack is coming regardless, and I'm sure it'll be fine.

The lack of reprints and new products, however, that's a real problem I can't complain enough about ;)

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6 hours ago, Revan Reborn said:

Your implication seems to be that positivity is the "acceptable" reaction to the Armada card size changes.

Furthermore, the subtext of your post callously shouts "Shut up and deal with it."

Everyone is entitled to their opinions. It's disrespectful of you to judge or comment on anyone for "negativity" as perceived by you.

News flash: Most people don't like change. It's human nature.

If FFG had left the ship and upgrade cards the same sizes, no one would've had any reaction, positive or negative.

In fact, many players would've been enthused about the Upgrade Card Collection because it will provide rare upgrade cards that were formerly exclusive to a single ship expansion. Many Armada players had been requesting an Armada Upgrade Card pack for that purpose (similar to the Legion Upgrade Card Pack).

However, FFG's choice to change the card sizes in Armada, beginning with the new Clone Wars ship expansions, paints the Upgrade Card Collection in a different light, which has understandably provoked mixed reactions from Armada players.

Ok, but in reality I think it's a meaningless change in format.

If it's a new edition, sure, but this?

X-2.0 at least has reoriented the cards, so you can put them half on top of each other.

But the card pack is coming regardless, and I'm sure it'll be fine.

The lack of reprints and new products, however, that's a real problem I can't complain enough about ;)

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5 hours ago, Sybreed said:

yeahhh when I read the news about the new upgrade cards I wasn't happy about it. That means there's at least 60-70$ worth of battlefoams I use that's now worthless and I would have to replace them.

To be fair. You could get a deckbox for a few bucks then just put some dividers in there to sort them out. 

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8 hours ago, RovanW said:

Anyone know why they still printed the point costs on the cards if they are going to change them down the line?

I think they're going with the Legion model; points on the cards, but then updated points for a few things in tournament play.

The reasoning they gave for Legion is that they wanted people to be able to play the game out of the box, without needing to look up points online. With X-Wing they tried to do that with the Quick-Build cards, where each expansion came with a few builds without points but with a vague "strength" level. But I don't think that would work quite as well for Armada and Legion.

It's a bit of a pain with Legion, having to remember that the points on the cards aren't the same as the tournament points, but it usually isn't too bad provided the list builders keep the points updated.

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I'm very glad they made them standard sized.  I really dislike mini cards, for anything.  They're too small.  Hard to read, hard to handle, and annoying to fit into binders (pages for full sized cards are easier to find).   Armada takes a ridiculous amount of space, regardless of the card size.  But I get the complaints.  It is very odd that they changed them.  They should have been this way since the beginning.

 

 

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Posted (edited)

I'm just happy for errata'd cards being available.  The size difference is a pain, but I'm sure as an adult I can deal with it.  At this point I was just going to get the images from the Errata or from Warlords and print my own at the mini-size.

Edited by AegisGrimm

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Thraug said:

Ooooh, my poor tray collection. :(

TBH to anyone who bought upgrade card trays in my Etsy shop I will offer American Mini cards printed at cost, or close to at cost, printed on an industrial printer, and coated with protective foil. See picture on page 2 to see a template prototype printed (although that one was printed on my home printer just to see how it looks).

  

13 hours ago, GhostofNobodyInParticular said:

Lack of negativity is not positivity necessarily, but 'neutrality', apathy. I think his point was that, like it or loathe it, it's happening, so why spend time complaining? As I personally do not like the change, I can see why there is a desire to express that disappointment (and indeed have indulged in doing so), but after that has been done, why do more?

Note that this is not to criticize those who do complain, nor to shut them up, but to seek to understand the motivation behind their actions.

Because things are not set in stone. They changed the card size once, they can do it again. CW release is still far, far off. There is a chance (miniscule, but non-zero) that FFG reads one of these threads...

Edited by Petersaber

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I could be wrong, but I was putting some thought into this over the weekend. With the change in card size here and X-Wing as well I was hoping maybe they are looking into cardboard only expansions that could breathe new life into an older or underperforming ship with a product that could be printed here in the states for quicker release and less time waiting on shipping from overseas. Essentially card packs, the standardization of cards could point that direction, and be quite profitable for FFG. For a reference the first pack they did like that for X-Wing sold out immediately and is still impossible to find. It would make sense if they are planning for something like that to go to one standard size card to keep costs down. Personally after having the larger cards in X-Wing for awhile now I’m looking forward to the standard size across both games, nothing was worse than buying four different size sleeves for X-Wing, Armada, & Imperial Assault and hunting odd binder pages to hold the odd cards in 

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24 minutes ago, Vykk Draygo said:

I could be wrong, but I was putting some thought into this over the weekend. With the change in card size here and X-Wing as well I was hoping maybe they are looking into cardboard only expansions that could breathe new life into an older or underperforming ship with a product that could be printed here in the states for quicker release and less time waiting on shipping from overseas. Essentially card packs, the standardization of cards could point that direction, and be quite profitable for FFG. For a reference the first pack they did like that for X-Wing sold out immediately and is still impossible to find. It would make sense if they are planning for something like that to go to one standard size card to keep costs down. Personally after having the larger cards in X-Wing for awhile now I’m looking forward to the standard size across both games, nothing was worse than buying four different size sleeves for X-Wing, Armada, & Imperial Assault and hunting odd binder pages to hold the odd cards in 

That's already a thing - Corellian Conflict did that with squadrons, Rebellion in the Rim buffed quite a few list types and ships.

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Posted (edited)

Im actually kind of concerned for the replenishment of older ships. Not well-informed on this, but since ships used larger and smaller card types, the drop in production of the large and small cards to standard size may affect the closure of machines and contracts that ffg has producing those size cards which may in turn lead to an even slower trickle of production of older ships. Will it ever be possible to again see a gladiator expansion at MSRP or a reasonable price? 

Edited by Muelmuel

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On 8/1/2020 at 2:50 PM, Green Knight said:

Relatedly: why the negativity? 

Big cards are coming. It's a reality. I don't think it was needed or wanted. But nothing to be done about it.

See below.

On 8/1/2020 at 5:49 PM, Revan Reborn said:

Your implication seems to be that positivity is the "acceptable" reaction to the Armada card size changes.

Furthermore, the subtext of your post callously shouts "Shut up and deal with it."

Everyone is entitled to their opinions. It's disrespectful of you to judge or comment on anyone for "negativity" as perceived by you.

News flash: Most people don't like change. It's human nature.

If FFG had left the ship and upgrade cards the same sizes, no one would've had any reaction, positive or negative.

In fact, many players would've been enthused about the Upgrade Card Collection because it will provide rare upgrade cards that were formerly exclusive to a single ship expansion. Many Armada players had been requesting an Armada Upgrade Card pack for that purpose (similar to the Legion Upgrade Card Pack).

However, FFG's choice to change the card sizes in Armada, beginning with the new Clone Wars ship expansions, paints the Upgrade Card Collection in a different light, which has understandably provoked mixed reactions from Armada players.

 

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Posted (edited)

@Green Knight

Also Green Knight. You might be an Xwing player. But so am I, quite an avid one, and as someone who's played with the new cards a lot, they are not a good change for numerous reasons you seem to be brushing aside without due cause: 

1. Take up a lot more storage space

2. They don't increase font in a reasonable manner

3. They take up more room and their placement is awkward with configurations being left side. Generally, they take up more table space which was already not something people were happy with at Xwing scales. At Armada scales, lots of different stores and people do not like having to make even larger tables to accommodate that - (it also screams of privilege to not only need a 6x3 table, but easily something larger now) 

4. As an avid Xwing player who knows the community there, the new cards in Xwing are mixed reactions at best, highly critical and negative at worst because they are in many concrete ways worse. Don't shove other people's concerns or perspectives under a rug of "only positivity, why negative, a change is going to happen whether you like it or not". Surprise, things can be reversed or made better too, FFG has listened plenty to all sorts of gripes about their games. 

5. You didn't miss the small ones. other people DO. For good reasons. And the way you make that statement is in a demeaning tone, as if, yours should be the only opinion that should matter. 

 

If you really wanted to know why your post seems so ill-willed, Revan made a good summary of it. In general, there is too much boys-club attitude in the forum that "if you don't like it, **** it up. No complaining is allowed." It would be beneficial to the community if this stops immediately. You could instead get on board with bumping constructive criticism that highlights the detriments of FFG's choice, instead of being critical of anything that isn't positive. That would make this game better and the community better and more thoughtful. 

Edited by Blail Blerg

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On 7/31/2020 at 1:45 AM, Petersaber said:

Personally, I absolutely hate that idea. I don't know who you are, the person who made that decision, but what were you thinking?

A standard gaming table it 182cm by 120cm. That leaves you with a 15-cm wide strip of space for your cards (on both sides). With American mini cards you were able to neatly place your cards in 2 rows, clearly visible, along your ship cards. Even with that, in a 400 points game, if your fleet had multiple ships, upgrades, and 8 aces (good old Sloane, Rieekan or Dodonna), you started to get close to running out of space.

But with this? Can you imagine running a fully-kitted Starhawk? Or an SSD? Or running a 500+ points game? You can't even do what you could in X-Wing (slide cards halfway under each other) because the cards are vertical and all the text is in the middle! Many (if not most) X-Wing players in my city just stopped bothering with upgrade cards, and instead just bring printed A4 sheets... and X-Wing takes half the space Armada does... do we want that for Armada? I don't.

And the wasted space! There is so much wasted space. Ackbar and Commander Leia are definitely way up there when it comes to amount of words on a single card, and yet almost half of the text box is empty. Why? The letters also seem only marginally larger than on American Mini cards, so what is the point?

 

I understood prize cards being standard-sized. I didn't like it, but it was alright - rare, few fancy cards (I especially like my 1st place Profundity), though a dozen ended up merely posted up on my wall. But standard everything...? No. That's just inconvenient.

And before you say - "ship cards are getting smaller" - yes, but you only have a few on the table, as opposed to a 20 or more upgrades, and you save only half a centimeter per card, while Standard are almost 2cm wider than Mini, and you will have to place them in one row instead of two.

116580077_3147697678610587_4413995628426397658_o.jpg

Going to once again remind readers who can read, that the reasons why this was so mixed reactively are HERE for you all to see. 

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34 minutes ago, Blail Blerg said:

Going to once again remind readers who can read, that the reasons why this was so mixed reactively are HERE for you all to see. 

What if I stacked my cards on top of each other until I needed them? Will FFG accommodate my play style with see through cards? 

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52 minutes ago, Blail Blerg said:

Going to once again remind readers who can read, that the reasons why this was so mixed reactively are HERE for you all to see. 

What if I am blind and need brail cards? Will FFG accomodate my play style?

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1 hour ago, Ginkapo said:

What if I am blind and need brail cards? Will FFG accomodate my play style?

I hear they will if you're one with the Force. Or if the Force is with you, either or.

1 hour ago, TallGiraffe said:

What if I stacked my cards on top of each other until I needed them? Will FFG accommodate my play style with see through cards? 

Why do you think the more recent fancy promos are those see through plastic gozantis and Demo?

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