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Petersaber

Standard-sized upgrade cards

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Posted (edited)

Personally, I absolutely hate that idea. I don't know who you are, the person who made that decision, but what were you thinking?

A standard gaming table it 182cm by 120cm. That leaves you with a 15-cm wide strip of space for your cards (on both sides). With American mini cards you were able to neatly place your cards in 2 rows, clearly visible, along your ship cards. Even with that, in a 400 points game, if your fleet had multiple ships, upgrades, and 8 aces (good old Sloane, Rieekan or Dodonna), you started to get close to running out of space.

But with this? Can you imagine running a fully-kitted Starhawk? Or an SSD? Or running a 500+ points game? You can't even do what you could in X-Wing (slide cards halfway under each other) because the cards are vertical and all the text is in the middle! Many (if not most) X-Wing players in my city just stopped bothering with upgrade cards, and instead just bring printed A4 sheets... and X-Wing takes half the space Armada does... do we want that for Armada? I don't.

And the wasted space! There is so much wasted space. Ackbar and Commander Leia are definitely way up there when it comes to amount of words on a single card, and yet almost half of the text box is empty. Why? The letters also seem only marginally larger than on American Mini cards, so what is the point?

 

I understood prize cards being standard-sized. I didn't like it, but it was alright - rare, few fancy cards (I especially like my 1st place Profundity), though a dozen ended up merely posted up on my wall. But standard everything...? No. That's just inconvenient.

And before you say - "ship cards are getting smaller" - yes, but you only have a few on the table, as opposed to a 20 or more upgrades, and you save only half a centimeter per card, while Standard are almost 2cm wider than Mini, and you will have to place them in one row instead of two.

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Edited by Petersaber
typos and thoughts

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Completely agree, Im probably going to look into some 3D printed vertical card holders for my games since where I play space is already stretched thin on the side bar. There isn't much I can do about the ship cards though, I'm really going to miss the old design.

Also the fact that there isn't artwork on the front of the card will make introduction games a bit harder, as not everyone is familiar with the names of every ship and so I found the ability to connect the picture to the model really helped with those less familiar with the game/SW in general.

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I agree, for usability it makes absolutely no sense whatsoever that the upgrade cards are standard size.  I can live with the change to the ship cards, but upgrade cards, no.  We love playing 1200 pt games and only just had enough room with the mini cards.  This change basically makes sector fleet battles a nightmare to manage.  Sure we can use the old cards, but eventually we will want to use new upgrades and there just wont be room on the table.

There are only two reasons I can think there was a change, 1. Cheaper to produce all the cards at the same size (They are a business after all, but I would rather paying a few dollars more to keep the cards the same), or 2. The card size was needed to fit the wording of some of the clone wars upgrade cards.

Either way, this is by far my least favorite thing and the problem is, there is nothing I can really do about it as I want to support the game so it keeps growing.  I prefer the GCW, however my love for these little plastic space ships means that I will get into the clone wars.  I will always be a rebel at heart :)  

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I am sure the reason FFG did it was cost savings on their part, no re-machining between card types.  I fully expect Legion will also get this treatment now in time.

That said, side-boards are going to be a mess now.  I will continue using my Tarot and Mini cards for Rebel and Imperial fleets but what about that one new upgrade I have to have that comes with Clone Wars that I want to put on my Star Destroyer.  Yuk!  I also have everything I need right now so I do not plan on getting the Card Pack.

Now I wouldn't have minded Commanders being full sized makes identifying them and the ship they are on easier but everything is going to be a logistical nightmare.

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3 hours ago, Petersaber said:

That's just inconvenient.

Inconvenient for you or for FFG's printing capabilities?

6 minutes ago, Thrindal said:

I am sure the reason FFG did it was cost savings on their part, no re-machining between card types.

This is my thought as well.

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, geek19 said:

Inconvenient for you or for FFG's printing capabilities?

This is my thought as well.

I'd gladly pay a dollar or five more for good cards, and not crappy new ones. They are not only inconvenient (yes, for me, and other players), but they also look bad.

 

Thus far I've been buying everything Armada put out, but I think I'll pass on Clone Wars. I'll just start borrowing ships and printing my lists if I ever play as a CW faction, and carry no cards.

And I sure as heaven won't be buying the Upgrade Pack, even if it has multiple TRCs and other rare, but much needed cards.

Edited by Petersaber

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3 hours ago, Thrindal said:

I am sure the reason FFG did it was cost savings on their part, no re-machining between card types.  I fully expect Legion will also get this treatment now in time.

That said, side-boards are going to be a mess now.  I will continue using my Tarot and Mini cards for Rebel and Imperial fleets but what about that one new upgrade I have to have that comes with Clone Wars that I want to put on my Star Destroyer.  Yuk!  I also have everything I need right now so I do not plan on getting the Card Pack.

Now I wouldn't have minded Commanders being full sized makes identifying them and the ship they are on easier but everything is going to be a logistical nightmare.

This may also make it quicker to get releases and card packs out. Reducing printing times. I prefer smaller cards, but there could be some benefit.

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Posted (edited)

I'll get the upgrade card pack as a physical (read "non-device") card update. That way I only need one of each to be pulled out as needed. One card to cover them all. Any doubles then can be given away.

Edited by axe238

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1 minute ago, bkcammack said:

Personally, I think part of the decision to increase the size of the upgrade cards is because a lot of upgrades are now going to have those blue and red bars on the side and will require that you place tokens on them. It could be hard to fit all that on a mini-American card. 

Perhaps, but Thrawn's Commander card was a Mini-American size card and Thrawn required players to place 3 command dials on his card. Dials are a lot larger than tokens, but players coped with it for years without an issue.

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47 minutes ago, Revan Reborn said:

Perhaps, but Thrawn's Commander card was a Mini-American size card and Thrawn required players to place 3 command dials on his card. Dials are a lot larger than tokens, but players coped with it for years without an issue.

Yeah, but that's a secondary issue. The primary change is the blue and red columns. Imagine adding those to the current cards. The text would be squeezed beyond the point of feasibility.

I prefer the current cards, both for size and layout, but I can understand why they made the changes they did. Discarding things to refresh is an interesting new mechanic.

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1 hour ago, geek19 said:

Why wasnt I PERSONALLY consulted about this change??

We all got consulted. I went to 2 meetings and filled in all the surveys.  They did say they were excluding people from the consultation whose judgement about particular commanders was - what was the word they used? Questionable.  That was it.

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Just now, robertneaves said:

Have they explained the red/blue thing yet? What is that about?

Some sort of token banking/card refresh effect. It's in the livestream.

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Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, robertneaves said:

Have they explained the red/blue thing yet? What is that about?

The blue bar on the left is what dials or tokens you place on the card at the beginning of the game. The red bar is the cost to refresh the card. Thrawn, for example has three wild command dials in blue, meaning you place three dials on him at the beginning of the game. The munitions upgrade has a red bar on the right meaning you need to spend one of those three tokens to refresh it. 

Edited by bkcammack

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, bkcammack said:

The blue bar on the left is what dials or tokens you place on the card at the beginning of the game. The red bar is the cost to refresh the card. Thrawn, for example has three wild command dials in blue, meaning you place three dials on him at the beginning of the game. The munitions upgrade has a red bar on the right meaning you need to spend one of those three tokens to refresh it. 

Yes, that's my understanding.

To clarify though, I believe the Munitions Supply* card's token pool is limited to 5 tokens at the start of the game and they can never to replenished. Spending a token is required to ready the card, but the token pool remains that same. So if the player passes 3 CF tokens to 3 other ships one round, then spends a Repair token to refresh the Munitions Supply card, it will only have 2 CF tokens left. Readying the card does not replenish the card's token pool. So when they're gone, they're gone.

I like this Munitions Supply card; I think it's better than Comms Net, even if it's more expensive, because it can pass multiple tokens in the same round and it doesn't have to convert its Command Dials into tokens to use for Comms Net. Munitions Supply can be used to distribute 5 CF tokens to ships in Round 1, then the Fleet Support ship/flotilla could just fly away from the battle and be used as a cheap ship activation for the remainder of the match.

Edit:

Oh no, I just realized that the Hardcell "Support" ship could be exploited as a Commander lifeboat! It's a small ship ... (presumably), not a flotilla, so it can equip a Commander. And if that Commander's ability has no range limitation, like Kraken, it can float on the periphery of the game mat and be relatively safe.

I suppose it might not be game-breaking -- it will probably depend on how much the Fleet Support version of the Hardcell costs. The Hardcell Battle Refit costs 52 points, so I doubt the Hardcell "Support" ship will cost 20 points -- probably 40-ish points, which would make it an expensive lifeboat. Also, the Hardcell probably won't have Scatter, so it wouldn't be as annoying to kill as a flotilla.

Edited by Revan Reborn

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