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Kyle Ren

Wedge in a Z-95

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6 hours ago, Blail Blerg said:

maybe would be nice to see Zs have some role other than "efficient generic" too. (Especially the generics) 

yes, Lt Blount is neat but also usually naked. Seems like naked lieutenants are a thing here.  

That’s what you get for pulling a prank on Wedge involving Ewoks. 

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6 hours ago, ClassicalMoser said:

SEVEN. CONCUSSION. BANDITS.

 

Still want to try the list.

as someone who's spent a lot of time flying Zs with missiles they're not really worth it. the locks are annoying to line up and having no focus means most things can just joust you and one-shot init-kill you 

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2 minutes ago, Kyle Ren said:

having no focus means most things can just joust you and one-shot init-kill you 

But wouldn't that be a hypothetical Wedge Z95's problem? Just be killed before able earning back the points the ship costed? A bit like the new Bossk Z95? The efficiency level is so high right now that 2gun vanilla ships do not do much (which a hypothetical Z95 Wedge on his first shot would not be affected by, he could push damage) or any important ship with weak defense and/or average-weak dial and/or single action gets killed off first, really fast (which this Wedge absolutely would be affected by, because he likely gets at most 2 shots before being killed).

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Just now, Managarmr said:

But wouldn't that be a hypothetical Wedge Z95's problem? Just be killed before able earning back the points the ship costed? A bit like the new Bossk Z95? The efficiency level is so high right now that 2gun vanilla ships do not do much (which a hypothetical Z95 Wedge on his first shot would not be affected by, he could push damage) or any important ship with weak defense and/or average-weak dial and/or single action gets killed off first, really fast (which this Wedge absolutely would be affected by, because he likely gets at most 2 shots before being killed).

Not if they're presupposing he'd still be I6 in the Booster Terrik modified Z-95 (was a Z-95 with T-65 S-Foils)...

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1 hour ago, Kyle Ren said:

as someone who's spent a lot of time flying Zs with missiles they're not really worth it. the locks are annoying to line up and having no focus means most things can just joust you and one-shot init-kill you

Approach with focus. Overfly and take the lock after the first engagement. Focus for double-mods when you come back around.

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Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, ClassicalMoser said:

Approach with focus. Overfly and take the lock after the first engagement. Focus for double-mods when you come back around.

the first turn usually kinda decides the game. the strategy you're using works if people fly into your killbox, in which case you want more alpha strike, not more lategame dice IMO. I think it's worth observing what Blair Bunke (the biggest proponent of this ship) has done with Z's in second edition, and I don't think I've ever seen him take a single upgrade on them. The only reason his Z's had missiles in first edition was because you could use thread tracers to paint locks on that first turn. 

I'm not saying your strategy is bad, I'm just saying that if you're able to pull it off you're probably already winning, and I also don't think it's particularly cost effective at current points. Missiles would need to cost about 2 points to really be viable options for Zs I think, because any upgrades you take suffer a multiplicative effect and are additionally a much larger effect due to their cost as a percentage of the base chassis cost. It's the inverse effect of the TIE/FO, which was basically considered worthless at 28 points and then suddenly extremely viable at 25 points. That's only 3 points, on a more expensive chassis, and we're talking about 6 points here. 

Edited by Kyle Ren

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31 minutes ago, Kyle Ren said:

I also don't think it's particularly cost effective at current points.

I don’t disagree. I still feel the classic 4 (Homing, Concussion, Cluster, Ion) need to come down a point or two. Still.

32 minutes ago, Kyle Ren said:

if you're able to pull it off you're probably already winning

In my imagination, you buy full-in to the idea that you’re definitely losing the first engagement. Probably losing 1-2 on the opening trade, in exchange for maybe half points on something else. But you end up in a better position.

But it would take several reps to dial in. I’m probably wrong.

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1 hour ago, ClassicalMoser said:

I don’t disagree. I still feel the classic 4 (Homing, Concussion, Cluster, Ion) need to come down a point or two. Still.

In my imagination, you buy full-in to the idea that you’re definitely losing the first engagement. Probably losing 1-2 on the opening trade, in exchange for maybe half points on something else. But you end up in a better position.

But it would take several reps to dial in. I’m probably wrong.

In my experience, after that opening trade, you want to keep the pressure on with some kturns and/or short blocking moves, maybe even barrel rolls for the blocks, so the disengage strategy worries me. That being said I haven’t really tried it much so it could work, just a little skeptical 

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4 hours ago, Kyle Ren said:

as someone who's spent a lot of time flying Zs with missiles they're not really worth it. the locks are annoying to line up and having no focus means most things can just joust you and one-shot init-kill you 

This is where I’d put my thread tracers... oh wait. (Actually I’m not really sure I want to see Tie advanced X1s with thread tracers in 2.0)

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1 hour ago, FlyingAnchors said:

This is where I’d put my thread tracers... oh wait. (Actually I’m not really sure I want to see Tie advanced X1s with thread tracers in 2.0)

Of all the weird power-creeped 1.0 cards, thread tracers may  be the one I have the fewest problems with tbh. Low initiative locks have always felt like weird game design, and I’m all in favor of things that make them relevant. 

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, theBitterFig said:

Tracers 2.0 could always be more limited.  Instead of every ship getting a charge, what if only the attacker and 1 other ship did?  Attacker and 2 other ships?  You don't light up the whole swarm, but it'd still be a tool to gain those locks.

Maybe put charges on it?  Something like 4 charges, Attack:focus.  Spend the focus and a charge to gain a lock; spend charges to give allies a lock on the same target.  Covers half a swarm once or one or 2 allies multiple times. Maybe give a strain token, too, since you can't dodge as well while painting a target for allies. 

Edited by Target_2.0

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On 7/24/2020 at 9:03 PM, Stryker359 said:

Legends Lore-wise it'd need to be a Z-95 with four cannons, so essentially a baby X-Wing in every respect with a 3/2/2/2 statline.

just remembered I'd done this haha

there is in fact a pretty easy mod for that ship for casual play... 

 

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4 hours ago, ClassicalMoser said:

Nah, if they revived thread tracers it would have to be a device; you launch it with a 5-forward and then friendly ships can measure locks from within range of it (maybe R1 for differentiation and balance)

Similar to how Maul interacts with the probe droid? Hmm...

I do kinda like the idea of having to fit a device carrier into the list somewhere to carry it. 
 

maybe make it unique as well. 
 

maybe if it’s  cheap enough you can still make a 5 ship swarm + carrier. 

Still not sure I want to see Ta-175 paired with this though.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, FlyingAnchors said:

Similar to how Maul interacts with the probe droid? Hmm...

I do kinda like the idea of having to fit a device carrier into the list somewhere to carry it. 
 

maybe make it unique as well. 
 

maybe if it’s  cheap enough you can still make a 5 ship swarm + carrier. 

Still not sure I want to see Ta-175 paired with this though.

You could make faction specific variants.

"Bounty Hunter Bloodhound Tracer" for Scum.

"XX-23 S-Thread Tracers" for Empire. Although, while thematic, I would be hesitant to give it to Empire, they already have Jendon specifically for this! 

"Something Something Marker Tracer" for Rebels. You have Dutch in the faction though, but he only gives one Lock. On the other hand rebels have all the focus tokens for double mods.

And thus lock out Droids who already have the DRK.

F/O and Resistance with their strictly better ships neither need it. Nor should backwards missile firing SF get Target Locks too easily! 

Republic is an edge case, while Synchronised Console is not played, they have theoretically already a mechanism in place.

 

Addendum: 

Or, as we actually speak about Z95, make it Incom Tracer and make it Z95 only :)

Edited by Managarmr
Addendum

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Posted (edited)
12 hours ago, ClassicalMoser said:

Nah, if they revived thread tracers it would have to be a device; you launch it with a 5-forward and then friendly ships can measure locks from within range of it (maybe R1 for differentiation and balance)

I don't really think that makes sense for these.

I could see Imperials getting some sort of launched Remote, but in the show, the tracers were a missile launched off that literally thunked onto the Ghost.  Keeping it a missile that works by an attack hitting is the only thing that would actually work for "XX-23 S-Thread Tracers."  Nothing wrong with Remotes, it'd be cool add a probot of some sort, whatever.  But calling a Remote by this name would be silly, and might be one of those rare things that can't get past LFL's lore standards.

https://starwarsrebels.fandom.com/wiki/Gathering_Forces

https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/XX-23_S-thread_tracker

Edited by theBitterFig

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37 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

I don't really think that makes sense for these.

I could see Imperials getting some sort of launched Remote, but in the show, the tracers were a missile launched off that literally thunked onto the Ghost.  Keeping it a missile that works by an attack hitting is the only thing that would actually work for "XX-23 S-Thread Tracers."  Nothing wrong with Remotes, it'd be cool add a probot of some sort, whatever.  But calling a Remote by this name would be silly, and might be one of those rare things that can't get past LFL's lore standards.

https://starwarsrebels.fandom.com/wiki/Gathering_Forces

https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/XX-23_S-thread_tracker

You could fire it like a missile, but when it hits, a have it attach a remote that can only be shot off, or scraped of with an obstacle. While the remote is attached, any friendlies can acquire lock at whatever range.

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