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28 minutes ago, Tonbo Karasu said:

I'm not sure we know whether she is or not.  The story only says that Uji thinks she is there.

Zentaro's clan letter explicitly called out that she was at the castle as she was instrumental in stopping at least of the assorted Daidoji assaults on the gates.

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Posted (edited)

The Way of the Daidoji is asymmetrical warfare.

The Way of the Kakita is the single perfect strike.

The Way of the Crane is excellence in all things.

All that’s left now is for the body to hit the floor. But I can see why he thought that death would be cowardice here. 
 

ETA- So, Crane Clan Civil War is Daidoji Uji & Doji Hotaru vs Doji Kuwanan & Kakita Yoshi, with the Asahina as either conscientious objectors or the swing vote?

Edited by Doji Hyōkin

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2 hours ago, Tonbo Karasu said:

Two things to say:

  • It's in the Temptations Cycle Fiction category.
  • ****

I feel like point the second is understating like there's no tomorrow.

I'm not sure if it still holds true, but isn't what Daidoji-sama did one of the only recognized warcrimes in Rokugan? Yeah, this is going to get bad.

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Tonbo Karasu said:

Two things to say:

  • It's in the Temptations Cycle Fiction category.
  • ****

Totally agree with your second point.

2 hours ago, Doji Hyōkin said:

ETA- So, Crane Clan Civil War is Daidoji Uji & Doji Hotaru vs Doji Kuwanan & Kakita Yoshi, with the Asahina as either conscientious objectors or the swing vote?

Actually, I think it's going to be Daidoji Uji vs Kakita Yoshi && Doji Kuwanan vs Doji Hotaru, with the Asahina trying to get eveyrone together to sing Kumbaya.

No way, Yoshi will ally himself with Hotaru after she pledged her loyalty to Kachiko and no way Kuwanan will go against Uji after Uji had been the only Family daymiõ who had shown him some support.

Honestly, I can agree with Uji's actions. Whats is more honorable? Dishonor yourself to guarantee the clan's survival or destroy the clan so your own personal honor will not be besmirched?

24 minutes ago, Mangod said:

I'm not sure if it still holds true, but isn't what Daidoji-sama did one of the only recognized warcrimes in Rokugan? Yeah, this is going to get bad.

Well, first of all, you need testimony to be convicted of a crime. We do not know exactly the content of his letters to the Crane Council but unless he actually wrote gunpowder or the rokugani equivalent, he is free of any accusation of that sort.

For all we know, he employed secretly trained Daidoji shugenja who invoked Fire kami to destroy the castle to deny the Lion's position.

Edited by Diogo Salazar

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2 hours ago, Diogo Salazar said:

no way Kuwanan will go against Uji after Uji had been the only Family daymiõ who had shown him some support.

Except we know that Hotaru’s approach to her commanders is to cut them some slack, and Kuwanan’s is to demand their seppuku, as seen in their argument after he’s released by the Lion.

Given the choice between supporting Uji or Yoshi, I see Kuwanan backing Yoshi, as the one he went to with his suspicions against his sister, making them the ‘traditionalist’ faction. 

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5 minutes ago, Doji Hyōkin said:

Except we know that Hotaru’s approach to her commanders is to cut them some slack, and Kuwanan’s is to demand their seppuku, as seen in their argument after he’s released by the Lion.

Given the choice between supporting Uji or Yoshi, I see Kuwanan backing Yoshi, as the one he went to with his suspicions against his sister, making them the ‘traditionalist’ faction. 

You are right, forgot about that.

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Posted (edited)

Also, Yoshi is Kuwanans strongest (and as far as I know only real) ally in the civil war. Backing up Yoshi not only makes sense politically to support an ally, but can also help use the destruction of the kakita castle as leverage against Hotaru, putting in evidence her lack of control over her clan, the conflict, and inability to protect crane assets. Yoshi would be an incredibly strong piece in this argument, being the offended daimyo and having lost his family and ancestral home. 

Edited by RafaelNN

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19 hours ago, Diogo Salazar said:

Honestly, I can agree with Uji's actions. Whats is more honorable? Dishonor yourself to guarantee the clan's survival or destroy the clan so your own personal honor will not be besmirched?

A dead Clan is considerably better than a Clan filled with dishonorable people. And as the saying goes: a rice paddy full of weed starts with a single seed. And death means nothing as long as Honor endures.

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33 minutes ago, AtoMaki said:

A dead Clan is considerably better than a Clan filled with dishonorable people. And as the saying goes: a rice paddy full of weed starts with a single seed. And death means nothing as long as Honor endures.

It had to be a Lion... 😂

Of course, circumstances matter. One thing, is a bunch of individuals doing something dishonorable (using gunpowder) to save the rest of the clan from destruction. Another one is doing a compact with a Shuten Doji to acquire immortality and give your entire clan as sacrifice for the price. Or using your clan resources to hunt maho-tsukai and Oni and using their knowledge to increase your power.

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5 minutes ago, Diogo Salazar said:

Of course, circumstances matter. 

Sure. It is like blaming the wind that brought the seed for the weed in your rice paddy. You would be technically right. 

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26 minutes ago, AtoMaki said:

Sure. It is like blaming the wind that brought the seed for the weed in your rice paddy. You would be technically right. 

But some times you need those weeds as they can provide vital nutrients that in the long term help the paddy thrive.

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2 hours ago, Doji Hyōkin said:

As a Crane, Daidoji Uji strives for perfection. When he decided to act as a Scorpion would, he felt he had no choice but to outdo them with the greatest act of sabotage Rokugan has ever seen. 

"If something is worth doing, then by Doji no Kami it's worth doing excellently!"

Semi-related, but how are the Seppun who killed Hantei XVI viewed? I ask because I want to try and figure out if there's a point where a situation is so hopelessly bad, that what Daidoji-sama did wouldn't be seen as dishonorable?

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What Daidoji-sama did was dishonourable only because he didn’t get Kakita Yoshi’s permission before burning down his house, and for causing the apparent death of Kakita Barahime.  Doji Hotaru or Yoshi himself can forgive the first, but the second is the shame he must reckon with. 
 

As to the Lion, they were asked to leave several times. If they insisted on squatting in an active construction site, well, unfortunate consequences are inevitable. 

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3 hours ago, Mangod said:

Semi-related, but how are the Seppun who killed Hantei XVI viewed? I ask because I want to try and figure out if there's a point where a situation is so hopelessly bad, that what Daidoji-sama did wouldn't be seen as dishonorable?

They're not viewed in any way--at least, not officially. In true Rokugani fashion, the whole matter of Hantei XVI is downplayed at best, and simply excised from history at the worst. Hantei XVI "died", and that's all the official histories would record.

UNOFFICIALLY, I suppose there are as many ways of viewing them as there are people doing the viewing. I would suspect that most Rokugani samurai that are even aware of the SC's end probably approve of what happened...I mean, the man was not in his right mind, having just ordered his own MOTHER killed. Matricide in a cultural that reveres family and elders is really, really bad, so I doubt you'd find many samurai that wouldn't (PRIVATELY) applaud what the Seppun (and some Clan samurai, as well) did.

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I'm trying to recall now which piece of fiction was published that Toturi thinks for a little bit about Hantei XVI and how he was considered a bad Emperor, I might be remembering it wrong though, but it seems that at least the Lion Champion (or at least the Emerald Champion) has access to a different set of historical documents.

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11 hours ago, Mangod said:

I ask because I want to try and figure out if there's a point where a situation is so hopelessly bad, that what Daidoji-sama did wouldn't be seen as dishonorable?

If Barahime had been a traitor then Uji would have been in the clear. 

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