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Dwing

V-19 torrent fighter inspiration.

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Does anyone have a fun inspiring list containing a couple of these guys ( I have 4). I really like the look of this ship, but I can't really see a use for it. Weak missiles, weak dial, no shields against a pretty brutal 2.0 damage deck. I can see the usefullness of Tucker, but the rest of the named guys seems lackluster. Bring on the suggestions, and if possible it would be cool with something else than just potential filler around a Jedi hero ;). I will be flying 4 gold squadrons + 3  bravo flight officers later today, to try out a republic swarm.

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I’d be interested in this, too.

I actually recently went down to 1 because I could never get excited about these little dudes either. I’m planning to explore the named pilots a bit more freely now that I’m not trying to think of things to do with more than that. My first thought is see where Mag Pulse Odd Ball gets me—not expecting supreme glory, but some basic usefulness would be nice.

But it’s never all that hard to go from 1 to 3 if I can see the purpose of it...

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Golds are amazing pilots. It’s the named guys that all stink.

Sinker Swarm (Sinker + torrents + friend based on points left) is pretty decent even if it has fallen out of favor and stars Torrents prominently.

My World’s 2019 list, while not strictly legal in terms of upgrades taken since point update, was Kenobi, Ric, and 3x Golds. You can easily keep the same pilots with different upgrades, or you can trade out Ric for another pilot.

To be honest, most Republic lists for me are 3-4 torrents + some higher init friends.

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56 minutes ago, ScummyRebel said:

Sinker Swarm (Sinker + torrents + friend based on points left) is pretty decent even if it has fallen out of favor and stars Torrents prominently.

I bet a lot of that is the Torrent being out of Hyperspace.  While the current online season isn't HS exclusively, there's some inertia to overcome.

Plus, stuff like M3-A Scyks and Sloane Swarm are kinda the new hotness.  Better?  Worse?  Hard to say.  But novelty is often a valuable thing.

1 hour ago, CoffeeMinion said:

My first thought is see where Mag Pulse Odd Ball gets me—not expecting supreme glory, but some basic usefulness would be nice.

For 40 points, it's probably OK.  MPW Oddball plus Ric/Obi/Plo can bring a lot of toys, like fancy droids, or maybe even a 7B instead of CLT.

5 hours ago, Dwing said:

Does anyone have a fun inspiring list containing a couple of these guys ( I have 4). I really like the look of this ship, but I can't really see a use for it. Weak missiles, weak dial, no shields against a pretty brutal 2.0 damage deck. I can see the usefullness of Tucker, but the rest of the named guys seems lackluster. Bring on the suggestions, and if possible it would be cool with something else than just potential filler around a Jedi hero ;). I will be flying 4 gold squadrons + 3  bravo flight officers later today, to try out a republic swarm.

I had fun a while back with Ric, N-1 Baby Anakin, 2 Torrents, and an ARC with R5 Astro (104th or Wolffe).  Of course, this was back when R2 astromech was really cheap.  The point being, nothing in the list is worth attacking.  Torrents are kind of a quagmire to bother attacking, the N-1s with Regen take forever to kill, let alone half-points, and an 11 health ARC for under 50 points is also just going to take a long time investment to kill.

To make it more general, Republic has a lot of nice ships around the 50 point level.  Ric Olie, named CLT Jedi.  ARCs and Broadside kinda work, and sometimes give a few points for other tricks in the list.  To that end, a pair of Torrents fits in nicely.  Obi/Plo + 4 Torrents would be pretty sweet, or swap one out for Ric, or so forth.

Arguably, Sinker Swarm is an example of this class of Republic lists, 4 by "50".

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5 hours ago, Dwing said:

Does anyone have a fun inspiring list containing a couple of these guys ( I have 4). I really like the look of this ship, but I can't really see a use for it. Weak missiles, weak dial, no shields against a pretty brutal 2.0 damage deck. I can see the usefullness of Tucker, but the rest of the named guys seems lackluster. Bring on the suggestions, and if possible it would be cool with something else than just potential filler around a Jedi hero ;). I will be flying 4 gold squadrons + 3  bravo flight officers later today, to try out a republic swarm.

While I don’t personally play Republic. I have watched and theory crafted with a friend who does enough to have an idea of what they are. 
 

Basically they are going to be what you make of them in a list. Just a pure swarm of them is going to be similar to a TIE /ln swarm. They will do those things a bit differently but the overall effect is the same. Cover large areas focus a lot of fire and be a general nuisance. 
 

If flying with an Ace they are there to either block or fire support. Create room for your Ace to do what he wants while soaking up shots so your Ace doesn’t just burn quickly. 
 

Filler again being a pest something your opponent might not focus on but can remissed if he ignores it completely. 

I think the Torrent Aces are okay but a bit costly. Adding one and upgrading others to blue and using some talents to give them teeth is certainly viable but may take a few matches to tune correctly for your play style.

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Posted (edited)

Don't sleep on Torrents.  The combination of lackluster individual aspects actually culminate in good littl' ship for the price.  And just to add to the chorus, yes all of the named pilots sans Tucker are over priced.  Tucker is perfect and he can do nothing wrong.  

GST are the most commonly seen on the table for the simple fact that they're solid filler ships.  Great blockers, near impossible to one shot, an a mass of two dice attacks will put through damage ... eventually.  But it's the filler utility of the GST that causes folks to overlook their Blue Squadron brethren.  I argue that small initiative bump and talent slot takes BSPs from filler to workhorse.  

27 points is still cheap enough to make good use of upgrades.  Dedicated is practically a no brainer for most lists now that it's down to one point.  I will gladly pay the extra three points over a GST to reroll a blank green for another, possibly more expensive, ship in my list.  So what if the BSP is strained now?  If my opponent wants to waste shots on an easier to hit 28 point ship instead of a Jedi/Ric/Wolffe/etc. be my guest.  Intimidation is solid option number two.  Love blocking with GST?  Great, now make it really scary for the other player.  Two to four bubbles of, "I don't want to fly my ace anywhere near that," at 30 points each isn't half bad.  Finally, it's possibly to get several Snap Shot Torrents on the board at 34 points a pop.  Like with Intimidation, having all those possible free shots on the board that can't be initiative killed can mess with the other player even if you never have to roll.  

I'm going to toss up two similar lists that take these brain-poops I just left above and run with them.  

Ahsoka Tano (44)    
    R4 Astromech (2)    
    Delta-7B (17)    
    Synchronized Console (1)    
    
Ship total: 64  Half Points: 32  Threshold: 3    
    
Blue Squadron Protector (27)    
    Dedicated (1)    
    Homing Missiles (5)    
    Synchronized Console (1)    
    
Ship total: 34  Half Points: 17  Threshold: 3    
    
Blue Squadron Protector (27)    
    Dedicated (1)    
    Homing Missiles (5)    
    Synchronized Console (1)    
    
Ship total: 34  Half Points: 17  Threshold: 3    
    
Blue Squadron Protector (27)    
    Dedicated (1)    
    Homing Missiles (5)    
    Synchronized Console (1)    
    
Ship total: 34  Half Points: 17  Threshold: 3    
    
Blue Squadron Protector (27)    
    Dedicated (1)    
    Homing Missiles (5)    
    Synchronized Console (1)    
    
Ship total: 34  Half Points: 17  Threshold: 3    
    
    
Total: 200    
    
View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0: https://raithos.github.io/?f=Galactic Republic&d=v8ZsZ200Z276XW5W201W211Y320X210W100W211Y320X210W100W211Y320X210W100W211Y320X210W100W211&sn=New Squadron&obs=

I've flown this one numerous times.  The overlapping support all five ships provide one another enables every piece to operate more effectively.  Plus every Torrent having a focus and lock ready to pass really makes an opponent think hard about how they want to experience the homing missiles.  

Ahsoka Tano (44)    
    R4 Astromech (2)    
    Delta-7B (17)    
    Synchronized Console (1)    
    
Ship total: 64  Half Points: 32  Threshold: 3    
    
"Axe" (32)    
    Snap Shot (7)    
    Concussion Missiles (6)    
    Synchronized Console (1)    
    
Ship total: 46  Half Points: 23  Threshold: 3    
    
"Kickback" (33)    
    Snap Shot (7)    
    Concussion Missiles (6)    
    Synchronized Console (1)    
    
Ship total: 47  Half Points: 24  Threshold: 3    
    
Blue Squadron Protector (27)    
    Snap Shot (7)    
    Concussion Missiles (6)    
    Synchronized Console (1)    
    
Ship total: 41  Half Points: 21  Threshold: 3    
    
    
Total: 198    
    
View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0: https://raithos.github.io/?f=Galactic Republic&d=v8ZsZ200Z276XW5W201W211Y318X256W99W211Y315X256W99W211Y320X256W99W211&sn=Survivors of Ryloth&obs=

This one started as an attempt to make more canon-accurate lists and to play some infrequent used pilots.  I originally had Swoop in there instead of the BSP but just couldn't justify it.  As with the previous list, it leaned heavily on cooperation with the synchronized console with Kickback doing a reasonable job of getting locks and having a focus thanks to Ahsoka.  A trio of Snap Shots makes this list a bit more aggressive that the other but it's fun to play all the same. 

*EDIT* Have a bonus Intimi-Torrent list.  Just threw it together.  I normally don't play Anakin (Delta) but this seems fun. 

Anakin Skywalker (62)    
    Calibrated Laser Targeting (5)    
    
Ship total: 67  Half Points: 34  Threshold: 2    
    
"Broadside" (36)    
    Ion Cannon Turret (5)    
    
Ship total: 41  Half Points: 21  Threshold: 4    
    
Blue Squadron Protector (27)    
    Intimidation (3)    
    
Ship total: 30  Half Points: 15  Threshold: 3    
    
Blue Squadron Protector (27)    
    Intimidation (3)    
    
Ship total: 30  Half Points: 15  Threshold: 3    
    
Blue Squadron Protector (27)    
    Intimidation (3)    
    
Ship total: 30  Half Points: 15  Threshold: 3    
    
    
Total: 198    
    
View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0: https://raithos.github.io/?f=Galactic Republic&d=v8ZsZ200Z273XWW200WY364XW138WWWWWY320X122WWY320X122WWY320X122WW&sn=New Squadron&obs=

Edited by Pa Weasley

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18 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

To make it more general, Republic has a lot of nice ships around the 50 point level.  Ric Olie, named CLT Jedi.  ARCs and Broadside kinda work, and sometimes give a few points for other tricks in the list.  To that end, a pair of Torrents fits in nicely.  Obi/Plo + 4 Torrents would be pretty sweet, or swap one out for Ric, or so forth.

2020 has been such an F’d year that I forgot this about my mothballed GAR fleet—but yeah, this “rule of 50” is definitely a factor in listbuilding Jenga. I do see 2x Golds as a viable piece of that. But by that same token, anytime I would reach for my Golds, I’d end up taking a really hard look at an ARC of choice, or Ric/Bananakin, instead...

9 minutes ago, Pa Weasley said:

I argue that small initiative bump and talent slot takes BSPs from filler to workhorse.  

27 points is still cheap enough to make good use of upgrades.  Dedicated is practically a no brainer for most lists now that it's down to one point.  I will gladly pay the extra three points over a GST to reroll a blank green for another, possibly more expensive, ship in my list.  So what if the BSP is strained now?  If my opponent wants to waste shots on an easier to hit 28 point ship instead of a Jedi/Ric/Wolffe/etc. be my guest.  Intimidation is solid option number two.  Love blocking with GST?  Great, now make it really scary for the other player.

See now this makes sense to me. I could see a Dedicated Blue doing work as a cheap pseudo-bodyguard or disruption piece. Non-Gold Torrents just started out at a miserable price point that discouraged exploration (at least for me); now that they’re down in the reasonable range, it’s playtime.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, CoffeeMinion said:

 I do see 2x Golds as a viable piece of that. But by that same token, anytime I would reach for my Golds, I’d end up taking a really hard look at an ARC of choice, or Ric/Bananakin, instead...

Yeah.  Using Golds in there is more a way of coming up with a plausible list, but only just plausible.  Certainly there's better stuff, but Golds are decent enough.

 

1 hour ago, svelok said:

the only thing bad about 25pt gold squadron torrents is how ridiculously better 26pt colossus fireballs are

If only Poe were a fraction of how good Obi and Anakin are. :P =D

Edited by theBitterFig

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1 minute ago, theBitterFig said:

If only Poe were a fraction of how good Obi and Anakin are. :P =D

Poe's goodness compared to Anakin seems at least mostly borne out in the points. Obi continuing to be so cheap (67 with 7B! 52 with CLT!) is crazy. But Fireballs are so much better than Torrents for one point more, so some of that balances out maybe?

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I like Sinker swarms (personal favorite is Sinker, 4 golds, and another ARC).  I like Ace with mini-swarm.  I like putting in a high PS spotter and missile torrents with syched console.  All results for casual play, your mileage may vary. 

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Republic Variety Squadron.

Delta-7 Aethersprite - •Ahsoka Tano - 49
    •Ahsoka Tano - “Snips" (44)
        Calibrated Laser Targeting (2)
        Heightened Perception (3)

V-19 Torrent Starfighter - •“Axe” - 32
    •“Axe” - Blue Two (32)

V-19 Torrent Starfighter - •“Swoop” - 31
    •“Swoop” - Blue Six (31)

BTL-B Y-wing - •“Broadside” - 41
    •“Broadside” - Shadow Three (36)
        Ion Cannon Turret (5)

ARC-170 Starfighter - Squad Seven Veteran - 47
    Squad Seven Veteran - (44)
        Intimidation (3)

Total: 200/200

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Sinker with 4 golds and either Ric or Luminara (or Broadside in an ace-heavy meta) is the classic Sinker swarm. It's been discussed already above - droid swarms are a bit better so the sinker swarm has fallen out of favour. It's still pretty good and would be a fun way to get torrents on the table.

Golds are excellent filler in any republic list - a pair of them alongside some 7B jedi can absorb a lot of fire, for instance. 1-2 filler golds is probably one of the better uses for them right now.

That said, I've been messing around building whacky lists with ion missiles on torrents to give them 3 red dice. I think it is a bit of a janky idea right now, but once the LAAT lands it will be able to pass a lock with synched console and also provide rerolls with the ship ability (which is handy when you need to pass the lock on to someone else with synched console). Below is an example list that I want to have a go with:

Gold Squadron Trooper (25)    
    Ion Missiles (4)    
    Synchronized Console (1)    
 
Gold Squadron Trooper (25)    
    Ion Missiles (4)    
    Synchronized Console (1)    

Gold Squadron Trooper (25)    
    Ion Missiles (4)    
    Synchronized Console (1)    
 
Gold Squadron Trooper (25)    
    Ion Missiles (4)    
    Synchronized Console (1)    
   
Jedi Knight (37)    
    Calibrated Laser Targeting (2)    
   
Red Squadron Bomber (30)    
    Dorsal Turret (3)    
    Clone Commander Cody (4)    
    R3 Astromech (3)    
    Synchronized Console (1)    
  

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On 7/6/2020 at 1:41 PM, svelok said:

"Sinker" (54)
Gold Squadron Trooper (25)
Gold Squadron Trooper (25)
Gold Squadron Trooper (25)
Gold Squadron Trooper (25)    
Ric Olié (42)    
    Crack Shot (1)    
    Passive Sensors (3)    

Total: 200    
    
they never took this list away

I've never tried this list before but it seems to be fun... Any tips about how to fly it properly?

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Rubales said:

I've never tried this list before but it seems to be fun... Any tips about how to fly it properly?

Bump hard. Block k-turns. Win on time, just like other bulk lists. Bore your opponent and viewers to death, win by default. 😃 

 

Sarcasm aside, this archetype is really good. 

The Sinker Arc 4 torrents is also a very good alternative. Ric makes the list more difficult, and since the games honestly go to time, not sure if it adds that much value for how much harder it makes flying. 

Push the block of 2x2 torrents right up in a joust vs the opponent. Control the range. Sinker on the safe side. The other arc somewhere reasonably near sinker. (Other side of sinker, or deploy sideways and turn in behind the formation, or some other side) -> this is the tricky part. Someone else has an exact deployment with this list and it works very well. 

Edited by Blail Blerg

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, Rubales said:

I've never tried this list before but it seems to be fun... Any tips about how to fly it properly?

It is definitely fun. There are very few resources for how to play swarm lists well. 

This is probably the best breakdown of the list and what it is trying to do or is vulnerable against. Also try to trackdown any videos of Blair Bunke running z95 swarms its obviously not exactly the same as it doesnt involve sinker but his overall engagement strategy and playstyle is instructive if your trying to get better at the archetype. The general concepts translate pretty directly. 

This site  ( if it still works ) is great for learning new lists, can search for specific lists and watch a few games to learn the basics. 

https://xba.azurewebsites.net

Clone swarms and torrents in particular are really cool and involve a lot of interesting strategy that most players are not capable of executing consistently at a high level. Takes a good deal of practice but if you get good with a list like this you will learn alot along the way. 

Good luck!

Edited by Boom Owl

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Posted (edited)

Ric was certainly a better fit when he could bring R2 Astromech for 4 points. :P Surely for the best that he can't.  R5 make any sense?  I guess Crack Shot is better than Predator, but Passive Sensors seems skip-able, if there's anything else worth bringing (there kind of isn't).

Anyhow, What Ric does that an ARC doesn't is ad a bit of diversification of threats.  He's a high-init "Ace" who's great at flanking, but can also safely run like the wind if he's targeted.

ARC as the 6th ship is just more beef.

I suppose Saesee Tiin, Luminara Unduli, or Ahsoka Tano would fit with CLT.  That might be an easier ship to fly than Ric, but being only Init 3/4 probably doesn't really bring that pocket ace/arc dodger potential.

The other thing Ric does: tricks your opponents into going fast, when they should probably sometimes go slow.  I know this from all the times I've flown against Ric and foolishly dialed in too many fast moves, instead of doing what's best for the particular board state.

1 hour ago, Blail Blerg said:

Bump hard. Block k-turns. Win on time, just like other bulk lists. Bore your opponent and viewers to death, win by default. 😃 

I mean, you've got great potential to just shoot people, if folks get bored and just fight you.

 

//

 

*e* There's some geometry to the list that's worth practicing in like FlyCasual... Sinker's got a pretty unique sort of buff area, so it's worthwhile to have a good sense of where he'll wind up, and where that side arc will be after different kinds of moves.

FC doesn't really do a lot for teaching tactics, but it'll show you how your own list fills up space, and give a bit of a sense of how it moves.

Edited by theBitterFig

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Obi-Wan Kenobi (48)    
    Calibrated Laser Targeting (4)    
    
Ship total: 52  Half Points: 26  Threshold: 2    
    
Barriss Offee (38)    
    Calibrated Laser Targeting (3)    
    
Ship total: 41  Half Points: 21  Threshold: 2    
    
Mace Windu (45)    
    R4 Astromech (2)    
    Calibrated Laser Targeting (3)    
    
Ship total: 50  Half Points: 25  Threshold: 2    
    
Blue Squadron Protector (27)    
    Dedicated (1)    
    
Ship total: 28  Half Points: 14  Threshold: 3    
    
Blue Squadron Protector (27)    
    Dedicated (1)    
    
Ship total: 28  Half Points: 14  Threshold: 3    
    
    
Total: 199    
    
View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0: https://raithos.github.io/?f=Galactic Republic&d=v8ZsZ200Z278XWW200WY275XWW200WY314XW5W200WY320X210WWY320X210WW&sn=New Squadron&obs=

 

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37 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

Ric was certainly a better fit when he could bring R2 Astromech for 4 points. :P Surely for the best that he can't.  R5 make any sense?  I guess Crack Shot is better than Predator, but Passive Sensors seems skip-able, if there's anything else worth bringing (there kind of isn't).

Anyhow, What Ric does that an ARC doesn't is ad a bit of diversification of threats.  He's a high-init "Ace" who's great at flanking, but can also safely run like the wind if he's targeted.

ARC as the 6th ship is just more beef.

I suppose Saesee Tiin, Luminara Unduli, or Ahsoka Tano would fit with CLT.  That might be an easier ship to fly than Ric, but being only Init 3/4 probably doesn't really bring that pocket ace/arc dodger potential.

The other thing Ric does: tricks your opponents into going fast, when they should probably sometimes go slow.  I know this from all the times I've flown against Ric and foolishly dialed in too many fast moves, instead of doing what's best for the particular board state.

I mean, you've got great potential to just shoot people, if folks get bored and just fight you.

 

//

 

*e* There's some geometry to the list that's worth practicing in like FlyCasual... Sinker's got a pretty unique sort of buff area, so it's worthwhile to have a good sense of where he'll wind up, and where that side arc will be after different kinds of moves.

FC doesn't really do a lot for teaching tactics, but it'll show you how your own list fills up space, and give a bit of a sense of how it moves.

Look. I don’t know you. Honest question have you tried this list? 
Imo with my table experience, the arc is actually basically the best variant to me. 

yeah it’s more beef. But there’s a reason why that’s so incredible 

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Thank you for all the great ideas 😊

Regarding Ric Olié, I'm not sure about passive sensors... I've seen him many times with daredevil, and R4 also fits. Does it make sense in this kind of list?

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Has anyone tried Padme in the sixth slot of the Sinker swarm, like so?:

Naboo Royal N-1 Starfighter - •Padmé Amidala - 45 •Padmé Amidala - Aggressive Negotiator (45) V-19 Torrent Starfighter - Gold Squadron Trooper - 25 Gold Squadron Trooper - (25) V-19 Torrent Starfighter - Gold Squadron Trooper - 25 Gold Squadron Trooper - (25) V-19 Torrent Starfighter - Gold Squadron Trooper - 25 Gold Squadron Trooper - (25) V-19 Torrent Starfighter - Gold Squadron Trooper - 25 Gold Squadron Trooper - (25) ARC-170 Starfighter - •“Sinker” - 54 •“Sinker” - Wolfpack Veteran (54) Total: 199/200 View in the X-Wing Squad Builder

She obviously doesn't have the pocket-ace potential of Ric, but her zone of debuff should (in theory) help the jousting ability of the swarm, helping the torrents' 2-dice attacks hit targets with lots of green dice and mods, and helping defend against heavily modded attacks.

I don't know, maybe it's wishful thinking that I can make a competitive Padme list because I want to use the chromed model with the lore-appropriate pilot. 🤣

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