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TedW

ARC-170 Configuration slot?

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Hello everyone,

As the title implies, I've been thinking recently of one of my favorite ships in the SW universe, the ARC-170 Starfighter. As much as I love it for its visual design, I just can't seem to make them work in my Republic squads (the only one I field from time to time is Norra Wexley with Zeb and Intimidation, but she's a Rebel).

So first - I'm no pro player and I don't know how Republic ARCs are seen these days, so I'm wondering if you can share your insight on them - are they worth fielding? If so, how do you build your squads with them in mind and in what combinations?

Secondly, let me ask a purely theoretical question - since B-Wings got an optional configuration for extra points and ARCs canonically had retractable S-Foils as well, do you think they could use getting a config like that too? If yes, what would you see the configuration do in order to make ARCs playstyle more pronounced?

Thanks in advance to anyone sharing their thoughts on that! :)

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I do like the look of the ARC-170, but I never understood the purpose of the s-foils.  It always felt, just because.   So I’m not sure on how a configuration card would make sense from canon point of view.  
 

Maybe.... S-foils closed allows a reduction in straight maneuvers difficulty, maybe add chain of something?

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Posted (edited)
56 minutes ago, TedW said:

So first - I'm no pro player and I don't know how Republic ARCs are seen these days, so I'm wondering if you can share your insight on them - are they worth fielding? If so, how do you build your squads with them in mind and in what combinations?

They're pretty solid.

Sinker, of course, does his thing of leading a swarm of Torrents, but that's not quite the same vibe as just loving and wanting to fly ARCs.

42 points for a 104th squadron pilot is a bargain.  A little awkward to fly, but the stats are wicked good for the price.  Squad Seven Veterans aren't as popular, but at 45 points with Dedicated, they're probably OK.

Take Obi-Wan with 7B (choice of Droid... I think C1-10P fits, and he's spicy), add 2-3 104th ARCs.  Better than bringing 3 ARCs would probably be Broadside with Ion Cannon Turret.  That'd be an ace, two big bruisers, and a nifty little accurate control ship.

56 minutes ago, TedW said:

Secondly, let me ask a purely theoretical question - since B-Wings got an optional configuration for extra points and ARCs canonically had retractable S-Foils as well, do you think they could use getting a config like that too? If yes, what would you see the configuration do in order to make ARCs playstyle more pronounced?

They could, but they don't need it.  Well, Rebels might, but Republic are fine.

47 minutes ago, Ccwebb said:

I do like the look of the ARC-170, but I never understood the purpose of the s-foils.  It always felt, just because.   So I’m not sure on how a configuration card would make sense from canon point of view.  
 

Maybe.... S-foils closed allows a reduction in straight maneuvers difficulty, maybe add chain of something?

I think the backfill story was they were supposed to be heat vents. 🙄 I know some folks like it, but all non-Naboo-ship prequel design to me was just so blah.

Anyhow, something interesting along those lines of a heat sink could be to reduce their front-arc primary weapon value, but allow them to attack twice.  Maybe only at two different targets.  Premise being that opening the S-Foils allows more rapid fire.  Closed S-Foils... I might reduce the difficulty of the Hard 2.  ARCs can't really leverage the stress well, so I don't mind giving them blue hards, particularly since if the "open" side allowed double-taps, it'd be a non-zero cost ship.

That said, double-tap ARCs (even if they couldn't attack the same target) would feel almost exactly like VTG Y-Wings, and that'd be boring rather than new and distinct.  Yeah, my whole idea is bad.

Edited by theBitterFig

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Posted (edited)

Radiant S-foils (open)

While you perform a red action, you may treat it as white.

Before you activate, if you are not critically damaged, you may flip this card.

Radiant S-foils (closed)

While you perform a primary (front arc) attack, roll one fewer attack dice.

While you execute a speed 3-4 basic maneuver, decrease its difficulty.

Before you activate, you may flip this card.

Edited by Ablazoned

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3 hours ago, Ccwebb said:

I do like the look of the ARC-170, but I never understood the purpose of the s-foils.

I'm sure the actual reason is the rule of cool, but my head canon reason is that when the S-foils open it increases the ships surface area radiating more heat into space.  So when the S-foils are closed, the ship has a small heat signature and less of a sensor signature, but when they are open, the weapons and engines are more effective since the heat dissipation is greater.

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1 hour ago, Frimmel said:

I like two SSV with Intimidation and Tail gunner. They can then be either hammer or anvil in your list. 

I’ve never had problems getting value out of my ARCs, but I’ve also not tried this before. I’m definitely going to whip up some lists with this concept 

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The N-1 is what drew me into Republic, but the ARC is what keeps me there. Dat beefy 3-dice-slinging **** does work. So I have a few opinions.

* Upgrades can make your cost balloon quickly as you bolt on more capabilities. Be sparing, and lean on the chassis’ strengths. You’ve got 3 reds, a chunk of health, a back-arc (read: 2x time on target), and you can reposition if you really need to. That’s formidable. Be on the lookout for moments where you can lean on those capabilities rather than trying to reach for something else.

* Sinker gets the headlines, but don’t entirely pass up Wolffe and Jag. Naked Wolffe has a big gun, though recharging his ability can be hard sometimes. Jag + R3 is less obviously good, but he’ll mess with the enemy’s target priority once they realize that ignoring him gives him a clear path to taking double-modded shots.

* ARCs will burn down fast, but they probably won’t get one-shotted. So while it’s a good general principle not to hang a ship out to dry in front of your force, that’s even more important with ARCs. You gotta coordinate your approach and hit something hard & fast, because while you’re swinging a big stick, it may not last a lot of rounds of sustained fire.

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Posted (edited)

One other thing: if you've got spare points for Synchronized Console, particularly in a Jag list, maybe include it.  1 point per ship allows everyone to coordinate locks to each other.  I wouldn't necessarily try to do some fancy tricks with it.  Just use it for the simple way of a ship taking a lock, and if they don't use it, sling it over to someone else.

Just remember you've got to follow all the range rules.

Edited by theBitterFig

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ARCs are great but they are going to die.  It's all about getting the most out of them until that fateful moment.  My favorite list to leverage the strength of the brotherhood of Clones has been a pair of SSV ARCs with dedicated and a pair of SSV Y-Wings with dedicated, R4, ion turret, and seventh fleet gunner.  Season to taste with other upgrades but I'm fond of devices on the Y-Wing.  7FG let's the ARCs punch at Ghost levels of damage and dedicated works surprisingly well at keeping this pretty beefy list alive even longer than it should.  It's a fun demonstration of what a generic Clone list can do outside of I2 swarms. 

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5 hours ago, Pa Weasley said:

ARCs are great but they are going to die.  It's all about getting the most out of them until that fateful moment.

That's exactly what I kept noticing every time I fielded them, which led me to including budget naked generics as I was too afraid of putting more expensive ones out there. Their medium sized base and a bit clunky repositioning makes them hard to navigate (although having a barrel roll at all is actually a big plus, even if a red one), and any time they're part of an engagement, they're bound to lose plenty of hit points. Sinker or Jag are usually too dangerous to be left alive, and in most games I had they were focused down pretty fast. I had a small success with double SFG near Anakin and their combined joust was pretty much like firing a torpedo barrage, but they still fell down eventually after being picked apart one by one, so I guess it really isn't worth overloading them with upgrades.

Then again, I have to say that I'm used to playing fast and agile ships with little hull, relying on mobility to not die, so I guess this is why I'm having such trouble with fielding big heavies like ARCs who just need to hammer through things :D Thanks everyone for providing valuable insight! ;)

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On the purely theoretical topic of Configuration upgrade, since everyone agrees that ARCs are bound to die sooner or later, I've come up with a quick little idea about their S-Foils to 'maybe' counteract that a bit..? Everyone keeps mentioning the heat sinks would go to the firepower, but I would imagine it could also excuse pouring more energy into shields because... why not? :D Sci-fi mumbo jumbo can excuse a lot I guess :)

What do you think? Red tokens would force an ARC to fly more tightly with blues, rewarding that with extra speed or durability, emphasizing both their 'all in' hammer-like tactic and the more 'clumsy' technology before X-Wings were a thing (ARCs were the grandpa generation for them, weren't they?).

I guess 2 would be an appropriate cost for that?

S-Foils_Actuator_(Closed).png.ac013661d9b782013562680d8abb631f.png

S-Foils_Actuator_(Open).png.a48de86f34d489823154cf7169fa5f23.png

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56 minutes ago, TedW said:

On the purely theoretical topic of Configuration upgrade, since everyone agrees that ARCs are bound to die sooner or later, I've come up with a quick little idea about their S-Foils to 'maybe' counteract that a bit..? Everyone keeps mentioning the heat sinks would go to the firepower, but I would imagine it could also excuse pouring more energy into shields because... why not? :D Sci-fi mumbo jumbo can excuse a lot I guess :)

What do you think? Red tokens would force an ARC to fly more tightly with blues, rewarding that with extra speed or durability, emphasizing both their 'all in' hammer-like tactic and the more 'clumsy' technology before X-Wings were a thing (ARCs were the grandpa generation for them, weren't they?).

I guess 2 would be an appropriate cost for that?

S-Foils_Actuator_(Closed).png.ac013661d9b782013562680d8abb631f.png

S-Foils_Actuator_(Open).png.a48de86f34d489823154cf7169fa5f23.png

One problem with giving ARCs a red boost: Engine Upgrade.  Given how Squad Leader and Tactical Officer work together, the combo would almost surely work.  If the foils gave them a boost, they could equip Engine Upgrade to gain a White boost, then 4 points for a White Boost.  Might be possible to get around it with "Equip this side face up."

Also, I think cheap access to Reinforce might be too strong.  Angled Deflectors is deliberately priced pretty high at 6, and reduces the ship's total shields by 1.  While a Red reinforce is a lot worse than White, Sinker with access to 2 point red Reinforce, without having to give up a health, would almost surely be too strong.  As written, I think 2 points would be way too cheap.

 

The thing overall: while it's risky to get a lot of fun upgrades*, nearly every pilot with a trim build is playable.   Shara Bey definitely isn't.  Oddball... well... I'd rather spend 1 fewer points for Wolffe, but simply being Init 5 might be enough.  Garven Dreis doesn't look that good, but he's only +2 points over the X-Wing version, which seems fair.  Then again, X-Wing Garven isn't that good either.  Ibtisam I think is probably a little underrated; her ability is unreliable, but she's only +2 points over a Squad Seven Veteran (pretty decent with Dedicated at 45 points), and when you do get to K-Turn and immediately clear the stress, that's great.  SSV and Wolffe and Jag and Norra are all fine little ships.  Sinker and the 104th pilot are both very good.

So if I'm doing a tally, 2-3 bad (F), 1-2 mediocre (C), 4 good enough (B+), 2 very, very good (A+ to S).

 

 

*This is true of nearly every ship in X-Wing, where upgrades are usually kinda bad.  That's a sad thing, IMHO, since we miss out on a lot of neat tricks, but I think it mostly winds up being true.

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1 hour ago, TedW said:

 

S-Foils_Actuator_(Open).png.a48de86f34d489823154cf7169fa5f23.png

ref: RR v110 page 9

"DEPLETE
A ship is depleted while it has at least one deplete token.
While a depleted ship performs an attack, it rolls one fewer
attack die. Deplete tokens are red tokens.
• After a depleted ship applies the effect to roll one fewer
attack die this way, it removes one deplete token.
• After a depleted ship executes a blue maneuver, it removes one deplete token."

Is there a reason you want the cost to close, gaining a deplete token, to be so easily mitigated (Deplete in the system phase while having a 1 or 2 straight or bank dialed in)?

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29 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

One problem with giving ARCs a red boost: Engine Upgrade.  Given how Squad Leader and Tactical Officer work together, the combo would almost surely work.  If the foils gave them a boost, they could equip Engine Upgrade to gain a White boost, then 4 points for a White Boost.  Might be possible to get around it with "Equip this side face up."

Also, I think cheap access to Reinforce might be too strong.  Angled Deflectors is deliberately priced pretty high at 6, and reduces the ship's total shields by 1.  While a Red reinforce is a lot worse than White, Sinker with access to 2 point red Reinforce, without having to give up a health, would almost surely be too strong.  As written, I think 2 points would be way too cheap.

About Boost/Engine Upgrade - Would it be actually possible to do that? As in, don't dual cards take effect only after setup, which would block picking Engine Upgrade? Even if not, that could be quite a point investment for a single ship to do a move stripping it of mods, so... maybe? I'm not really good at pricing these, apologies ^^

And I agree that the Reinforce part may be too cheap for a tanky 1 Agi ship. It being red would cut a lot of mobility, but yeah, might be too dangerous once it gets going, at least for the cost.

16 minutes ago, Hiemfire said:

Is there a reason you want the cost to close, gaining a deplete token, to be so easily mitigated (Deplete in the system phase while having a 1 or 2 straight or bank dialed in)?

Sure, why not? It would restrict ARCs to blues if they want to ditch that strain/deplete, so they'd hardly do anything fancy on that turn anyways. But I do admit that the idea still could've been better thought out :)

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2 hours ago, theBitterFig said:

Garven Dreis doesn't look that good, but he's only +2 points over the X-Wing version, which seems fair.  Then again, X-Wing Garven isn't that good either

Really? I’m only just now getting back into Rebels, but G’s focus-passing is tremendous. I get the argument that it’s RNG-dependent, but if you can get him a lock or a focus by any other means (of which Benthic and Dutch are not the only options), that sucker can be scary.

(Or did I just luck out with my Garven + Benthic + Jan + Filler list?)

2 hours ago, theBitterFig said:

Sinker and the 104th pilot are both very good.

I hope the 104th isn’t judged to be too good at its current price point. It’s fantastic “filler” in Republic List Jenga, but it could be hard to justify at a much higher cost.

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13 hours ago, Hiemfire said:

Is there a reason you want the cost to close, gaining a deplete token, to be so easily mitigated (Deplete in the system phase while having a 1 or 2 straight or bank dialed in)?

Per @TedW I think the concept of easy-to-deal-with drawbacks can be interesting.

12 hours ago, CoffeeMinion said:

Really? I’m only just now getting back into Rebels, but G’s focus-passing is tremendous. I get the argument that it’s RNG-dependent, but if you can get him a lock or a focus by any other means (of which Benthic and Dutch are not the only options), that sucker can be scary.

(Or did I just luck out with my Garven + Benthic + Jan + Filler list?)

Maybe?  I've mostly been under the impression that Garven is great when he works, doesn't always work, but many of his alternatives always work.  Benthic and Dutch, for example.  Also, for Garven sharing a focus, someone else has to be missing one for it to be really effective.

Contrast, say, Ten and Braylen.  They're both easy double-mods without help.  Not as zippy, but being self-sufficient is pretty good.

12 hours ago, CoffeeMinion said:

I hope the 104th isn’t judged to be too good at its current price point. It’s fantastic “filler” in Republic List Jenga, but it could be hard to justify at a much higher cost.

I'd previously have said it should go up.  However, given how low the prices on the other 3-red, 1-green medium base ships have gotten (G-1A, M12, Skurrg, Reaper), I think 104th prices are pretty likely to stay 42.

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3 hours ago, theBitterFig said:

Per @TedW I think the concept of easy-to-deal-with drawbacks can be interesting.

The point I was going for with deplete/strain and only red bonus actions was basically 'if you keep using blues, you're good', to reinforce the ship's identity as something that hammers through things rather than flies around them ^^ It'd restrict ARCs' mobility and sharp turns/K turns, but as long as they stay in the thick of it, things would be fine.

14 hours ago, Roller of blanks said:

#givedelta7shyperdriveringconfig

I'd love to see that happen, but i can't think of anything other than a 'it's the resistance'-type deep strike. Any ideas? :P 

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18 hours ago, TedW said:

About Boost/Engine Upgrade - Would it be actually possible to do that? As in, don't dual cards take effect only after setup, which would block picking Engine Upgrade?

IIRC, that's how 1e worked, but I'd have to double-check for 2e.

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